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Am I the only person in this world aware that the Duke basketball program is slowly crumbling infront of our eyes? It seems that all college hoops people, especially Duke fans, are oblivious to the direction Duke basketball is headed. Let's break this down:

1) After Duke, the team picked by many to march easily all the way to the Final Four and win it all, lost in the SWEET 16 of the 2002 NCAA Tournament, Matt Christensen, one of Duke's senior leaders, decided he was going to throw a temper tantrum and attack the referees. The NCAA demanded an apology for the uncalled for antics and Christensen apologized.

2) Shelden Williams, a Duke basketball committee, is accusd of raping a woman. Even though Parade Magazine, McDonald's, and countless other organizations decided Shelden Williams shouldn't be named to many Highschool All-American teams or be allowed to play in the Highschool All-Star games, Duke still admitted the talented prospect to Duke, and he will play basketball.

3) Sean Dockery, another Duke basketball committee, struggled for most of his senior year to meet the academic requirements and get a passing score on the ACT. Dockery eventually gets the score necessary. Based on highschool academic performances, Dockery doesn't seem to be the type of person that will be able to complete and succeed in college academics, especially at Duke. Yet Duke still gives Dockery the "ok" to come to Duke.

4) Casey Sanders, a rising junior, was charged in the spring for assault on a female.

5) After telling the media countless times during the 2001-2002 season that he would return to school for his senior season and after Coach K had named Dunleavy captain for the 2002-2003 team, Mike Dunleavy decides to leave Duke and take his game to the pros, so he declares for the 2002 draft.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed or thought about these recent events in the Duke Basketball program, but I don't think these events shows too much promise for the future.

Good thing I am a Tar Heel! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 19, 2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: hoops13 ]</small>
What a joke. You are glad to be a tar heel?!?!?! <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> You just lost 20 games in one season!!

About your post...

1) Christensen didnt attack the ref, he went at the ref, and was restrained. He apologized, and that is over with.

2)I hate ignorant people. I garauntee you that Coach K knows a hell of a lot more about the Swill situation than any of us do. Whatever decision he makes is the right one. Shelden was never charged.

3) Ed Cota, Antawn Jamison, Rasheed Wallace <img border="0" alt="[snore]" title="" src="graemlins/snore.gif" />

4) Please show me a link that has Casey charged with anything. He may have done it, but wasn't it just a complaint?

5) Dunleavy never said he was coming back. NEVER did he say that. Get your facts straight.

Do you really think I'm worried about Duke crumbling? You ought to worry about your own team and their sorry ass record.

You lose 4 out of your top 6 from an 8-20 team. That is pathetic.

And Doh <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" />
How about this fun fact for ya?

2002 Duke's losses - 4
2001 Duke's losses - 4
2000 Duke's losses - 5
1999 Duke's losses - 2

2002 UNC's losses - 20

We lost 5 less games than you did in 4 years than you did in 1!!!!

LMAO!!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:

4) Please show me a link that has Casey charged with anything. He may have done it, but wasn't it just a complaint?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From an article at TheDevilsDen on May 7th:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Junior center Casey Sanders was arrested and charged with assault on Tuesday in Carrboro, NC. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://duke.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=99559" target="_blank">http://duke.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=99559</a>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
1) Christensen didnt attack the ref, he went at the ref, and was restrained. He apologized, and that is over with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> Attack doesn't have to be physical. It could be with words.
Hoops,
Casey was charged with assault. So was Melvin Scott. The hypocrisy...

Matt said "That's bull****", albeit in a very angered manner, but I hardly call that a verbal attack.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
Hoops,
Casey was charged with assault. So was Melvin Scott. The hypocrisy...

Matt said "That's bull****", albeit in a very angered manner, but I hardly call that a verbal attack.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I think the NCAA knows a little better what went on after the Duke loss. Anyways, whatever he did, it was poor enough for the NCAA to demand an apology.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
3) Ed Cota, Antawn Jamison, Rasheed Wallace <img border="0" alt="[snore]" title="" src="graemlins/snore.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please stop trying to change the subject <img border="0" alt="[NoNo]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> to UNC basketball . We are talking Duke basketball here and Dockery's grades.
The NCAA demanded an APOLOGY. Please, if it was an attack, he would have gotten more punishment than that.

And... I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your post. You talk about a Duke player's grades, when you have no room to talk. I don't think Antawn Jamison could even read until 8th grade or something like that.
Don't make me do this, hoops. Don't make me defend dook.

All I will say is that the dook program is not crumbling until they start losing games and stop having top recruits lined up at their door to ride the pine....

-JD
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
What a joke. You are glad to be a tar heel?!?!?! <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> You just lost 20 games in one season!!

About your post...

1) Christensen didnt attack the ref, he went at the ref, and was restrained. He apologized, and that is over with.

2)I hate ignorant people. I garauntee you that Coach K knows a hell of a lot more about the Swill situation than any of us do. Whatever decision he makes is the right one. Shelden was never charged.

3) Ed Cota, Antawn Jamison, Rasheed Wallace <img border="0" alt="[snore]" title="" src="graemlins/snore.gif" />

4) Please show me a link that has Casey charged with anything. He may have done it, but wasn't it just a complaint?

5) Dunleavy never said he was coming back. NEVER did he say that. Get your facts straight.

Do you really think I'm worried about Duke crumbling? You ought to worry about your own team and their sorry ass record.

You lose 4 out of your top 6 from an 8-20 team. That is pathetic.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Welcome back Nate, you are an idiot. Everything that hoops said is true(except for that last thing about proud to be a tarhole). Dook may not be crumbling but they certainly arent as squeeky clean as you want to think they are. Dook has turned into team of thugs, Shelden Williams, Casey Sanders, Matt Christensen( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> ) and I doubt that dumb Dockery is a saint. The only people that dont realize there is a problem are stupid dookies like yourself.

DUCK FUKE!
Matt Christensen and thug are almost as close to opposites as you can get. He made one mistake and he's a thug. You are the idiot.

Shelden Williams has a 3.8 GPA. THUG

Casey Sanders is not a thug, and he did make a mistake in pushing his girlfriend.

Now, look at Maryland. Your freaking fans are looked down upon by everyone in college basketball. Throwing bottles at players' parents? That is some classless bull****. Setting you whole campus on fire? Duke has a controlled bonfire. Maryland lets all hell break loose.

And you want to talk about recruits not being smart? Chris McCray will have to do the SAME THING Dixon did, which is sit out one year as a partial qualifier. At least Dockery could actually pass his test. Garrison barely got his scores. Gilchrist, I hear, punched a ref over a call, or something like that? I dont know if that is true, but that exemplifies his whole attitude. HE is a thug.

dumb*** hypocrite
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
Matt Christensen and thug are almost as close to opposites as you can get. He made one mistake and he's a thug. You are the idiot.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh Please Nate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> Did the laughing smiley mean anything to you? Calling Matt Christensen a thug, was clearly tounge in cheek(well at least I thought it was clear <img border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" title="" src="graemlins/banghead.gif" /> ). If you dont understand why I called Shelden a thug God help us all. As for Casey "Brick hands" Sanders, anyone who hits any girl is a thug in my book. As for the rest of the dribble you posted this thread isnt about Maryland and we are hardly looked down upon by everyone in college basketball. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Oh yeah, McCray qualified BTW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

I would love to argue with you more but this server being slow is getting annoying.
BTW, Casey never hit her, he pushed her.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
BTW, Casey never hit her, he pushed her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What's your point? It's still ****in assault! <img border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" title="" src="graemlins/banghead.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> Dont try to sugar coat it, the bastard hit a girl and that makes him a thug.

<small>[ June 19, 2002, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Terpy ]</small>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
What a joke. You are glad to be a tar heel?!?!?! <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> You just lost 20 games in one season!!

About your post...

1) Christensen didnt attack the ref, he went at the ref, and was restrained. He apologized, and that is over with.

2)I hate ignorant people. I garauntee you that Coach K knows a hell of a lot more about the Swill situation than any of us do. Whatever decision he makes is the right one. Shelden was never charged.

3) Ed Cota, Antawn Jamison, Rasheed Wallace <img border="0" alt="[snore]" title="" src="graemlins/snore.gif" />

4) Please show me a link that has Casey charged with anything. He may have done it, but wasn't it just a complaint?

5) Dunleavy never said he was coming back. NEVER did he say that. Get your facts straight.

Do you really think I'm worried about Duke crumbling? You ought to worry about your own team and their sorry ass record.

You lose 4 out of your top 6 from an 8-20 team. That is pathetic.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh, i thought i'd throw my two cents into this shin dig...

1)Let's be serious here. Despite what transpired in that game, we have to ask ourselves, what could the NCAA do? Matt was a senior, and was weeks away from graduation. Even the NCAA said that they couldn't do much about the situation. Even if the guy was restrained, the intent was there. What would he have done, had he not been restrained? Gave him a hug? please.

2.)It seems very cut and dry to most people who read this situation. There was a scene that appeared to be rape, the coach broke it up, and Shelden(along with some other players) were punished for it. As the son of a lawyer, I don't believe that shelden not being charged says anything about his innocence. Perhaps the girl simply did not want to reopen wounds. Here's a case in point: I had a friend that was raped while on vacation, yet decided to not pursue any trial out of it. All of us have seen Blue Devil's posts about rape, so there was obviously a pretty good chance of this transpiring.

3.) I will agree with you on this post. A number of schools have accepted recruits that were not the strongest, academically. However, one of the reasons that duke basketball has been so respected is that they were different, much like stanford. With the recruiting of people such as Dockery, and sanders, this claim to fame has been made null and void. Maryland traditionally has done this, but there are no claims that they've done otherwise. This is not the case for Duke.

4.)I won't say much about this, it's already been covered.

5.) I don't care too much about dunleavy, to be perfectly honest. He can stay or go for all I care.

UNC has a program that has traditionally been a top 25 team, much like duke. But what happens when you have a brand new coach, and lose your top player in a year? This, apparently. I'm not a huge Tarheel fan, but I assure you that they will be back with a vengeance. Cower before the mighty Doh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Guest

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nate jonesacc:
Shelden Williams has a 3.8 GPA. THUG
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nate, you're a good guy, but are you serious? Don't try to bring in that "he has a high gpa, so he can't be a thug" argument, because that is crap. Grades have no bearing whatsoever on the character of a recruit, outside of how disciplined the person is in the classroom. I can tell you now about students who have high gpas, but have poor character, so it isn't fair to imply so much on academic prowess.
We've got some great discussion here guys. <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/cheers.gif" />

The thing that bothers most about these Dukies, is the Duke fans are like "I don't agree with your post" but the 5 things that I posted were facts ! The only opinion I posted was that I thought the events may indicate crumbling in the program. You don't have to agree that the events mean the program is crumbling, but facts are facts.
You guys are just makin' it tough on yourselves. How are you going to feel when a "crumblin program" kicks your teams' butts again? You know it's gonna happen. If I was you I'd be tellin' how great Duke was so when they beat you it won't feel so bad. Thugs, low grades whatever, it's the final score that counts and all your teams have had the thugs, dopers, drinkers and dummies long before Duke ever did. It's like the pot callin' the kettle black. It appears it's the way college Bball is now, get used to it. Get real.

Guest

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Coach Doh:
You guys are just makin' it tough on yourselves. How are you going to feel when a "crumblin program" kicks your teams' butts again? You know it's gonna happen. If I was you I'd be tellin' how great Duke was so when they beat you it won't feel so bad. Thugs, low grades whatever, it's the final score that counts and all your teams have had the thugs, dopers, drinkers and dummies long before Duke ever did. It's like the pot callin' the kettle black. It appears it's the way college Bball is now, get used to it. Get real.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Coach Doh, that's exactly my point. For years, Duke BBall has been deemed classier that the other athletics(because of folks like Grant Hill, Battier, and JWill) and of a higher standard than other teams in D1 ball. However, the past few years have shown that the devils have descended to the level of the teams that you claimed to be above for years.

No one here has said a single thing about the actual athletic ability of any of the recruits here, we merely are saying that your precious integrity is no longer as great as many duke fans would have us believe. I'd be the first one to admit that Duke has a strong team of athletes, but their character(as well as coach K's) is what i've come to question.
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