I am breaking my vow.
The other topic is too good to pass up. I think Isreal's govt. is far superior to ours. We should have a bunch of parties that share common interests. I take up the pro-choice argument because my side is pro-choice, but in actuality I really don't care. I could live with the overturn of Roe Wade if I got the things that I truly covet. Now the argument of a coalition govt is that it is a weak govt. I say a weak govt. is the best govt. because it's feet is held to the fire. The majority can call an election at any time. Think the Likud party. Both sides would would............... shoot their wouldn't even be a both sides. We would have a govt. at the center. I like the fiscal conservative with a social liberal. Not too liberal socially, but I hope you get my meaning. We are polarized and paralyzed right now as a country. We are going to have to deal with Iran at some point. Neither side has the guts right now to do it. In case your wondering. My party would be a green party. The environment above all.
and we should always err on the side of caution with respect to our environment.
and another thing.............. I'm sick of the Democrats hanging out with fringe groups. People who are a pariah socially. I really don't want to defend them, but sometimes I have too. We need a govt. of the center. HBO had a special. Road Trip with Christ?? I think. It's amazing. Jerry Falwell, Ted Haggard and their ilk. They've hi jacked Christianity. Preaching to kids that the earth is 6000 years old. Creationism vs. Evolution. I think everyone on here should watch it. It's a disgrace how politicized our churches have become. There is a reason our forefathers wanted a seperation of the church vs. the state. Some of them march hand in hand with the Taliban. The only difference is you switch God with Allah.
Machiavelli Wrote:HBO had a special. Road Trip with Christ?? I think. It's amazing. Jerry Falwell, Ted Haggard and their ilk. They've hi jacked Christianity. Preaching to kids that the earth is 6000 years old. Creationism vs. Evolution. I think everyone on here should watch it. It's a disgrace how politicized our churches have become.
http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=6046
Quote:There is a reason our forefathers wanted a seperation of the church vs. the state.
You don't know much about history either. Try reading some of the original documents.
Quote: Some of them march hand in hand with the Taliban. The only difference is you switch God with Allah.
It's a problem when you start believing your own hyperbole.
Machiavelli Wrote:I am breaking my vow.
I'm not surprised...
DrTorch Wrote:You don't know much about history either. Try reading some of the original documents.
It's been gone over many time on here and elsewhere, but yes there was a substantial debate on the church/state relationship in the early days of this country. This is what was settled on:
Quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
I like the idea that you can call an election at any time if the leader falls out of the majority. I shouldn't have put the last part in about Christianity. We have gone over it alot. We haven't gone over a coalition govt. In my opinion far superior to our current one. This would answer a lot of the problems we ALL have with the two party system.
BR- did you get my PM. When I go to submit one it just stays there. I don't know if mt account is PM cabable. Let me know if you got my PM.
No government is perfect, Mach. Having the ability to call election whenever you want causes other problems.
But some are superior to others.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:No government is perfect, Mach. Having the ability to call election whenever you want causes other problems.
Some people would waste their lives trying to force new elections. It just wouldn't be a good idea for a country the size of the USA. It may work for a smaller country.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:It's been gone over many time on here and elsewhere, but yes there was a substantial debate on the church/state relationship in the early days of this country. This is what was settled on:
Quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
don't forget this one from the treaty of Tripoli
Quote:Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Things have changed but the foundation of the United States hasn't.
I've always thought a good deal for overturning Roe vs Wade would be pro-life support of better contraceptive education.
Fanatical-
I like your way of thinking. I would give up Roe vs. Wade in a second. With these two criteria:
1. Find out when brain waves hit the fetus. As soon as that mass of cells can feel pain. I think it's life and it deserves protection.
2. We damn well better have programs in PLACE that will deal with these unwanted pregnancies. Ergo children. Bring back the orphan trains? I've never understood the argument from the right in this case. I personally feel we sometimes have a population problem with social services. Now the right wants to increase the number of unwanted children. OK?, but find ways of dealing with the problem. There was one cartoon I loved about the pro-choice crowd. There were 4 captions. The 1st. A few people are around a young girl telling her not to have an abortion. The second one even more. The third one she has a pro-life crowd chanting at her to have the baby. The the 4th one. An alone girl by herself with an infant. This pretty much sums up my thinking with this group. I don't know how you can tell someone else to live their life, BUT I'm sick of losing elections because of it. Hell I'll even march in the damn right to life parade if 50% of them would vote Democratic. It's not that big of an issue with me.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:You don't know much about history either. Try reading some of the original documents.
It's been gone over many time on here and elsewhere, but yes there was a substantial debate on the church/state relationship in the early days of this country. This is what was settled on:
Quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
I don't have a problem with it. It was Mach who said that churches were too involved in politics. Whatever happened to them exercising their right to practice their religion?
DrTorch Wrote:I don't have a problem with it. It was Mach who said that churches were too involved in politics. Whatever happened to them exercising their right to practice their religion?
Just to be clear are you saying that getting involved with politics is part of their religion?
I don't really have a problem with people using their religious views to influence their political views, I think it would hard for them not to.
Machiavelli Wrote:Fanatical-
I like your way of thinking. I would give up Roe vs. Wade in a second. With these two criteria:
1. Find out when brain waves hit the fetus. As soon as that mass of cells can feel pain. I think it's life and it deserves protection.
2. We damn well better have programs in PLACE that will deal with these unwanted pregnancies. Ergo children. Bring back the orphan trains? I've never understood the argument from the right in this case. I personally feel we sometimes have a population problem with social services. Now the right wants to increase the number of unwanted children. OK?, but find ways of dealing with the problem. There was one cartoon I loved about the pro-choice crowd. There were 4 captions. The 1st. A few people are around a young girl telling her not to have an abortion. The second one even more. The third one she has a pro-life crowd chanting at her to have the baby. The the 4th one. An alone girl by herself with an infant. This pretty much sums up my thinking with this group.
Ever hear of "research" or "facts"? You get your knowledge from cartoons?
The waiting list for those wanting to adopt in this country is LONG. Has been for decades.
That "agrgument" is fallacious.
**edit by GrayBeard**Personal Attack Removed 
edit #2 by GrayBeard**if you have a problem with my edits, send me a PM. I stand by my edits, and that is why I put my name on them. Questioning them here is against the AUP.
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:I don't have a problem with it. It was Mach who said that churches were too involved in politics. Whatever happened to them exercising their right to practice their religion?
Just to be clear are you saying that getting involved with politics is part of their religion?
I don't know, and can't speak for them, but it's possible.
Quote:I don't really have a problem with people using their religious views to influence their political views, I think it would hard for them not to.
Exactly. There was never any intention of forbidding your religious beliefs from affecting your voting preferences. Yet Mach seems to be quite concerned over this type of activity.
Just for the record Torch. When it comes to qualifying exams? What would you answer for the approximate age of our earth?
Bourgeois_Rage
Did you get my PM?
Machiavelli Wrote:Just for the record Torch. When it comes to qualifying exams? What would you answer for the approximate age of our earth?
I would answer, "The best geological research report that the Earth is a few million years old. However, no direct measurement has been made, nor have these tests been validated over such a long period of time."
Machiavelli Wrote:Bourgeois_Rage
Did you get my PM?
Nope.
Machiavelli Wrote:a few million................
well if you consider 3,500 million a few, i guess you could be right.
Dating with the K/Ar method.
Here's a site form the USGS.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html
Ok, meant billion.