CSNbbs

dammit :bang:

They earned it. We didn't deserve it, cause we played like ****. Duhon shot well though.

T-Monay820 Wrote:They earned it. We didn't deserve it, cause we played like ****. Duhon shot well though.

Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

kaisersayzo Wrote:

T-Monay820 Wrote:They earned it. We didn't deserve it, cause we played like ****. Duhon shot well though.

Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

WTF are you talking about? Duke was down by 4 with 2 seconds left when Duhon shot a 3 pointer... Not a 4 pointer.

Man, you are really thickheaded.

nate jonesacc Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:

T-Monay820 Wrote:They earned it. We didn't deserve it, cause we played like ****. Duhon shot well though.

Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

WTF are you talking about? Duke was down by 4 with 2 seconds left when Duhon shot a 3 pointer... Not a 4 pointer.

Man, you are really thickheaded.

And who was it that pulled Duke from being down 8 to being down 4 with a chance at a quick three and another possible miracle??????? JJ Redick...NOT DUHON. Who was it that nailed a 30 footer and then hit 3 free throws to keep Duke in upset range....JJ - NOT DUHON. Who lead that team down the stretch Nate???? Who????

Don't for a minute think that Duke didn't think they could win. If Duhon would have made that shot you would be singing his praises whether they won or not you two-faced fool. So stop with your blind trust and admit JJ lead his team AGAIN.

AIRBALL...AIRBALL...AIRBALL!

kaisersayzo Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:

T-Monay820 Wrote:They earned it. We didn't deserve it, cause we played like ****. Duhon shot well though.

Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

WTF are you talking about? Duke was down by 4 with 2 seconds left when Duhon shot a 3 pointer... Not a 4 pointer.

Man, you are really thickheaded.

And who was it that pulled Duke from being down 8 to being down 4 with a chance at a quick three and another possible miracle??????? JJ Redick...NOT DUHON. Who was it that nailed a 30 footer and then hit 3 free throws to keep Duke in upset range....JJ - NOT DUHON. Who lead that team down the stretch Nate???? Who????

Don't for a minute think that Duke didn't think they could win. If Duhon would have made that shot you would be singing his praises whether they won or not you two-faced fool. So stop with your blind trust and admit JJ lead his team AGAIN.

AIRBALL...AIRBALL...AIRBALL!

What a joke. Would Duke even be in position to only be down 8 if Duhon hadn't hit those 2 three pointers early in the second half?

JJ is GREAT for one thing and one thing only. SCORING.

You are so freakin caught up in scoring you forget about all of the other facets of the game.

Duhon airballed a shot that had 0 consequence... Duke was DOWN 4 WITH 2 SECONDS LEFT. WTF could have happened? How is that choking?

You obviously have no clue what leading is if you think that JJ is the leader of this team. You are just making a fool of yourself again.

nate jonesacc Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:

T-Monay820 Wrote:They earned it. We didn't deserve it, cause we played like ****. Duhon shot well though.

Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

WTF are you talking about? Duke was down by 4 with 2 seconds left when Duhon shot a 3 pointer... Not a 4 pointer.

Man, you are really thickheaded.

And who was it that pulled Duke from being down 8 to being down 4 with a chance at a quick three and another possible miracle??????? JJ Redick...NOT DUHON. Who was it that nailed a 30 footer and then hit 3 free throws to keep Duke in upset range....JJ - NOT DUHON. Who lead that team down the stretch Nate???? Who????

Don't for a minute think that Duke didn't think they could win. If Duhon would have made that shot you would be singing his praises whether they won or not you two-faced fool. So stop with your blind trust and admit JJ lead his team AGAIN.

AIRBALL...AIRBALL...AIRBALL!

What a joke. Would Duke even be in position to only be down 8 if Duhon hadn't hit those 2 three pointers early in the second half?

JJ is GREAT for one thing and one thing only. SCORING.

You are so freakin caught up in scoring you forget about all of the other facets of the game.

Duhon airballed a shot that had 0 consequence... Duke was DOWN 4 WITH 2 SECONDS LEFT. WTF could have happened? How is that choking?

You obviously have no clue what leading is if you think that JJ is the leader of this team. You are just making a fool of yourself again.

What could have happened? You are asking this of a UMD fan. You are stupid.

Last time I checked, games are won by the team who has the most points. In conclusion, if a player scores a lot of points, his team has a better chance of winning the game.

Yes JJ is a scorer...and quite honestly the best shooter I have ever seen. You blindly overlook the obvious facts. JJ's ability to shoot from anywhere creates so much attention that it opens a wide variety of scoring opportunities for the rest of the team. He doesn't need to dribble to create havac. HE easily does as much for the team by fear as Duhon does with dribble penetration. I agree he can't play defense but his offense is amazing.

Last time I checked, POW's, all-ACC's, and all American's rarely get selected because the coach like them. Duhon's numbers are not good enough (period). JWill and Juan were named to these positions because they did everything for their teams and their numbers proved it. Duhon just ain't gonna cut it but please don't let me stop you from you ridiculous fascination with a "good at best" player. Also make sure to follow his outstanding pro career in France!

kaisersayzo Wrote:Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

2nd leading scorer on Duke with 17 pts while shooting 3-4 from behind the arc. That's considered good shooting by anyone but you. And its hardly choking missing a NBA range 3 while being double teamed and 7 seconds left in the game. As far as JJ, why do you think he scored so much at the end of the game? Cause Duhon gave him the ball almost immediately after he crossed the timeline. Want to know more about steping up big in close situations? How about the steal on the inbounds by Duhon? Ask JJ and he will tell you right away his leader is Duhon. No one gives a **** about who you think Duke's leader is. Everyone on Duke knows its Duhon.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:Especially when Duke was within a major upset range and he pulled up and hit nothing at all. Another classic leadership role from Duhon (cough, cough). JJ kept the Dukies in it again, led the team in scoring and single-handedly kept the dream alive only to have his "leader" choke yet again. Best PG in the conference my a$$.

2nd leading scorer on Duke with 17 pts while shooting 3-4 from behind the arc. That's considered good shooting by anyone but you. And its hardly choking missing a NBA range 3 while being double teamed and 7 seconds left in the game. As far as JJ, why do you think he scored so much at the end of the game? Cause Duhon gave him the ball almost immediately after he crossed the timeline. Want to know more about steping up big in close situations? How about the steal on the inbounds by Duhon? Ask JJ and he will tell you right away his leader is Duhon. No one gives a **** about who you think Duke's leader is. Everyone on Duke knows its Duhon.

Exactly! Everyone on Duke knows that. Still doesn't make him any good now does it? I never said he didn't have a good game. Personally, I thought his offense was good compared to his usual non-existence. Just get with Nate and form your own love-nest for Duhon. The rest of the non-bias people around the country will just continue seeing Duhon for what he is....4th best on his own team. I could care less what label you want to put on him. Hey, what ever makes you feel better. I will just admire the better PG's in the ACC like Felton, Paul, Jack and certainly Gilcrist.

Furthermore your argument about who gave JJ the ball is idiotic. I'm positive Coach K said to Duhon "OK Chris, throw the ball into JJ and get the hell out of the way". I'm pretty sure that IS NOT an assist. I'm also pretty sure that even Horvath could have handled that great resposibilty...maybe not with as much heart and feeling behind the pass though.

ps. Big time "leaders" would have at least hit some iron when taking a crucial shot. Face it!

kaisersayzo Wrote:The rest of the non-bias people around the country will just continue seeing Duhon for what he is...

You? Non-biased? :roflol:

kaisersayzo Wrote:Furthermore your argument about who gave JJ the ball is idiotic. I'm positive Coach K said to Duhon "OK Chris, throw the ball into JJ and get the hell out of the way". I'm pretty sure that IS NOT an assist. I'm also pretty sure that even Horvath could have handled that great resposibilty...maybe not with as much heart and feeling behind the pass though.

Thats my point. K told him to give the ball to JJ. But it does not make him the leader (which for some bizzarre reason you keep giving JJ the title of). K knows JJ can shoot, so you get the ball in the hands of the best shooter. I'm not talking about assists here. I'm explaining where all of JJs point are coming from. Besides, you don't get an assist after 7 dribbles by the guy you passed the ball to.

All of the other "non-bias" (whatever the hell that means) people... like Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?

T-Monay820 Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:Furthermore your argument about who gave JJ the ball is idiotic. I'm positive Coach K said to Duhon "OK Chris, throw the ball into JJ and get the hell out of the way". I'm pretty sure that IS NOT an assist. I'm also pretty sure that even Horvath could have handled that great resposibilty...maybe not with as much heart and feeling behind the pass though.

Thats my point. K told him to give the ball to JJ. But it does not make him the leader (which for some bizzarre reason you keep giving JJ the title of). K knows JJ can shoot, so you get the ball in the hands of the best shooter. I'm not talking about assists here. I'm explaining where all of JJs point are coming from. Besides, you don't get an assist after 7 dribbles by the guy you passed the ball to.

OK T let me ask you something. Who was the leader of the 2002 UMD National Championship team? Was it Blake or Dixon? In answering that, you need to think of Duke's current team. If you answer Blake then I will drop this argument because it would be obvious you and I will never agree. If you say Dixon (which is the obvious truth) then you are a hypocrit that has personal issues with JJ and refuse to let yourself see the truth that's right there in front of you.

What defines the leader of a team T? Is it someone who takes orders or is it the fearless go-to guy who leads by example and carries his team through tough stretches? Just a question.

nate jonesacc Wrote:All of the other "non-bias" (whatever the hell that means) people... like Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?

Do you cut and paste (Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?) or do you have it in a macro for easy distribution. I said it once and I'll say it again, I don't care how Skip, TJ who? and the media feel about Duhon. The media is so far up Duke's a$$ of course they are going to say that. TJ Bannister...for God sakes he plays for VA. Anything he says is dismissed by his own stupidity for attending VA. He can't be that bright.

Last time I checked, every coach I have heard talking about JG and Felton and Paul and Jack all have respect for their games and address their concerns in all the pre-game interviews. I have also heard great props from Brad and Dicky and Packer about JG's game. Who cares?

kaisersayzo Wrote:

T-Monay820 Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:Furthermore your argument about who gave JJ the ball is idiotic. I'm positive Coach K said to Duhon "OK Chris, throw the ball into JJ and get the hell out of the way". I'm pretty sure that IS NOT an assist. I'm also pretty sure that even Horvath could have handled that great resposibilty...maybe not with as much heart and feeling behind the pass though.

Thats my point. K told him to give the ball to JJ. But it does not make him the leader (which for some bizzarre reason you keep giving JJ the title of). K knows JJ can shoot, so you get the ball in the hands of the best shooter. I'm not talking about assists here. I'm explaining where all of JJs point are coming from. Besides, you don't get an assist after 7 dribbles by the guy you passed the ball to.

OK T let me ask you something. Who was the leader of the 2002 UMD National Championship team? Was it Blake or Dixon? In answering that, you need to think of Duke's current team. If you answer Blake then I will drop this argument because it would be obvious you and I will never agree. If you say Dixon (which is the obvious truth) then you are a hypocrit that has personal issues with JJ and refuse to let yourself see the truth that's right there in front of you.

What defines the leader of a team T? Is it someone who takes orders or is it the fearless go-to guy who leads by example and carries his team through tough stretches? Just a question.

It was Dixon... But in NO WAY can you compare JJ and Dixon.

Dixon was better as a senior than JJ will ever be (and you can quote me on that).

Dixon was also a senior. Duhon is a senior. Seniors tend to lead.

You are the only person who doesn't think that Duhon leads this team. COACH K, REDICK and the ENTIRE DUKE TEAM know who the leader is... It's Duhon.

kaisersayzo Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:All of the other "non-bias" (whatever the hell that means) people... like Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?

Do you cut and paste (Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?) or do you have it in a macro for easy distribution. I said it once and I'll say it again, I don't care how Skip, TJ who? and the media feel about Duhon. The media is so far up Duke's a$$ of course they are going to say that. TJ Bannister...for God sakes he plays for VA. Anything he says is dismissed by his own stupidity for attending VA. He can't be that bright.

Last time I checked, every coach I have heard talking about JG and Felton and Paul and Jack all have respect for their games and address their concerns in all the pre-game interviews. I have also heard great props from Brad and Dicky and Packer about JG's game. Who cares?

Have any of those coaches said such glowing things about Duhon?

READ THE QUOTE AGAIN BUDDY. THIS IS SKIP PROSSER TALKING. NOT JO AVERAGE FAN. :rolleyes:

kaisersayzo Wrote:OK T let me ask you something. Who was the leader of the 2002 UMD National Championship team? Was it Blake or Dixon? In answering that, you need to think of Duke's current team. If you answer Blake then I will drop this argument because it would be obvious you and I will never agree. If you say Dixon (which is the obvious truth) then you are a hypocrit that has personal issues with JJ and refuse to let yourself see the truth that's right there in front of you.

What about the 1998-1999 Duke team with Brand, Avery, Langdon, and Battier? Who was the leader? Langdon was. Brand may have led the team in points while Langdon didn't lead Duke in any stats other than 3pts made and attempted and FT%, but Langdon was still their senior leader. Brand was player of the year, yet he still wasn't the leader. Or in 2001 with Battier, Williams, Boozer, and Dunleavy. Jason was arguably more talented than Shane, yet Shane was still the team's leader. The leader is not always the most talented player on the team. Just as in the military the sniper may be the best shot, but the captain is still in charge of the unit.

Quote:What defines the leader of a team T? Is it someone who takes orders or is it the fearless go-to guy who leads by example and carries his team through tough stretches? Just a question.

The leader of the team is the person who can best manage the team on the floor. He is in charge of making sure the team executes what the coach wants and is expected to make smart decisions with the ball and play with the team concept. Sometimes he's the most talented player on the team (ex: Dixon, Jason Williams in '03), other times he's not (ex: Duhon, Battier, Hurley, Langdon). Note there can be multiple leaders on a team (1992 with Hurley and Laettner (sp?)). JJ will be a leader next year though, along with Ewing and Sheldon.

nate jonesacc Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:All of the other "non-bias" (whatever the hell that means) people... like Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?

Do you cut and paste (Skip Prosser? T.J. Bannister? Brad Daughtery? Mike Patrick?) or do you have it in a macro for easy distribution. I said it once and I'll say it again, I don't care how Skip, TJ who? and the media feel about Duhon. The media is so far up Duke's a$$ of course they are going to say that. TJ Bannister...for God sakes he plays for VA. Anything he says is dismissed by his own stupidity for attending VA. He can't be that bright.

Last time I checked, every coach I have heard talking about JG and Felton and Paul and Jack all have respect for their games and address their concerns in all the pre-game interviews. I have also heard great props from Brad and Dicky and Packer about JG's game. Who cares?

Have any of those coaches said such glowing things about Duhon?

READ THE QUOTE AGAIN BUDDY. THIS IS SKIP PROSSER TALKING. NOT JO AVERAGE FAN. :rolleyes:

Nate you are as dense as lead. I know that Duhon has gotten glowing reviews from ACC coaches and such. I also know that Felton, JG, Jack, and Paul have gotten them as well. Why you are stuck on one interview with Prosser I just can't understand. I clearly remember Coach K giving mad props to JG in a pre and post game interview. VA did the same. Williams has had nothing but great things to say about JG. Hewitt lead the pack in praising JG when he went off for 27 points against his team as well. What are you trying to accomplish with your quotes? If they were relevant or even unique then I could see them making sense in an argument. The fact is...they just don't say much more than has been said about all the other great PG's in the conference.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

kaisersayzo Wrote:OK T let me ask you something. Who was the leader of the 2002 UMD National Championship team? Was it Blake or Dixon? In answering that, you need to think of Duke's current team. If you answer Blake then I will drop this argument because it would be obvious you and I will never agree. If you say Dixon (which is the obvious truth) then you are a hypocrit that has personal issues with JJ and refuse to let yourself see the truth that's right there in front of you.

What about the 1998-1999 Duke team with Brand, Avery, Langdon, and Battier? Who was the leader? Langdon was. Brand may have led the team in points while Langdon didn't lead Duke in any stats other than 3pts made and attempted and FT%, but Langdon was still their senior leader. Brand was player of the year, yet he still wasn't the leader. Or in 2001 with Battier, Williams, Boozer, and Dunleavy. Jason was arguably more talented than Shane, yet Shane was still the team's leader. The leader is not always the most talented player on the team. Just as in the military the sniper may be the best shot, but the captain is still in charge of the unit.

Quote:What defines the leader of a team T? Is it someone who takes orders or is it the fearless go-to guy who leads by example and carries his team through tough stretches? Just a question.

The leader of the team is the person who can best manage the team on the floor. He is in charge of making sure the team executes what the coach wants and is expected to make smart decisions with the ball and play with the team concept. Sometimes he's the most talented player on the team (ex: Dixon, Jason Williams in '03), other times he's not (ex: Duhon, Battier, Hurley, Langdon). Note there can be multiple leaders on a team (1992 with Hurley and Laettner (sp?)). JJ will be a leader next year though, along with Ewing and Sheldon.

OK..OK T I get what you are trying to say. I guess what I have a hard time accepting is that all the names you have thrown out with Langdon as the acception were all the guys you want shooting the ball in the last 10 seconds. All these guys also carried their team through tough stretches. So it is obvious that our idea of what a leader is is different in the fact that I think that a leader also has to take their team on their backs at times. Juan Dixon was the catelist for why UMD teams would come back from 20. He was also the guy nailed the foul shots at the end and created offense where no one else could. He is the one that lead in scoring, lead in defense, lead in foul shots, lead in 3 %, lead in defense, lead in intensity, lead in heart, and just flat out lead by example. In my opinion Duhon leads by listening to the coach and letting others take on the game pressures. This might actually make these players better, but that leaves the question....did they really even need him there in the first place? At least with Juan, there was never a question of who was the man on the court.

I don't think Duhon is a bad player at all but I think the title of "leader" carries a lot of responsibility that needs to be earned. I just don't agree that Duhon deserves the title. It is possible for a team to exist without a "leader" and with my definition of a leader, Duke currently doesn't have one. I still think Duke is a great club this year and have a real chance to take it all home this year.

kaisersayzo Wrote:OK..OK T I get what you are trying to say. I guess what I have a hard time accepting is that all the names you have thrown out with Langdon as the acception were all the guys you want shooting the ball in the last 10 seconds. All these guys also carried their team through tough stretches. So it is obvious that our idea of what a leader is is different in the fact that I think that a leader also has to take their team on their backs at times. Juan Dixon was the catelist for why UMD teams would come back from 20. He was also the guy nailed the foul shots at the end and created offense where no one else could. He is the one that lead in scoring, lead in defense, lead in foul shots, lead in 3 %, lead in defense, lead in intensity, lead in heart, and just flat out lead by example. In my opinion Duhon leads by listening to the coach and letting others take on the game pressures. This might actually make these players better, but that leaves the question....did they really even need him there in the first place? At least with Juan, there was never a question of who was the man on the court.

I don't think Duhon is a bad player at all but I think the title of "leader" carries a lot of responsibility that needs to be earned. I just don't agree that Duhon deserves the title. It is possible for a team to exist without a "leader" and with my definition of a leader, Duke currently doesn't have one. I still think Duke is a great club this year and have a real chance to take it all home this year.

I see the leader of the team being the one who can best coordinate all the players. You seem to see it as the one who has the greatest visible impact (ex: scoring, clutch free throws) on the game. I think a balance is needed. I also guess that the type of leader needed will vary from team to team. Duke needs a smart ball handler to handle all of our talent (sophmores and a freshie). Its like having an experienced soldier with an automatic who knows how to handle it. Other teams like MD, need players who can step up to the plate now and use their talent to lead/guide their teams. Like a sniper with his single shot bolt-action where you know he's gonna get someone. But definitely a balance.