If you're wondering how this relates to ETSU, two reasons.
I want to find out if anyone else has heard this story. In 1985 ETSU went winless, and the only game that wasn't a loss was a tie against Liberty.
I'm curious, can anyone confirm the rumor that Falwell asked for the Tri-Cities finest limo service to pick him up at the airport, but at the time there were no limo services in the area?
The second thing to bring up is to remember just how big ETSU's 24-20 win against Liberty to begin the 1996 football season was.
At the time Liberty was a VERY respected and nationally ranked Division I-AA program. Their head coach was Sam Rutigliano- the head coach of the 1980 Cardiac Kids- and the defensive coordinator was George McIntyre, who led Vandy to their last winning record back in '82.
For ETSU, which had one winning season in their previous nine seasons, to open up with a win was a confirmation of the Mike Cavan era and forebode the bigger things to come.
Would ETSU have been a playoff team without the win? Hard to say- but probably not at 8-3.
And would ETSU have even gone 8-3 without such an inspiring opening day win?
In hindsight, that win against Liberty might have kept ETSU football alive for those final five or six years.
The Mike Cavan era was a good one. We were real winners then. Then Goof ball Paul Hamilton came on board and ruined ETSU football as we know it.
I have to agree with you Nuck. If we had only found a "like minded" coach to replace Cavan I believe we might still have football. While a good man, I think Hamilton was totally the wrong person to take over since he was (and is) an option coach. It was the beginning of the end of our football program and it ultimately allowed the program to be pulled from under us. Had we kept the program anywhere near the 1AA top twenty five I do not believe there could have been a justification for ending the program. Sad.
That's not true at all.
Even if the Bucs had hired Don Shula, they were headed to the tank. Stanton was going to kill football. The fact Hamilton pulled out as many wins as he did was amazing.
Remember- ETSU had three football-friendly ADs under Paul Stanton and he ran them all off. If Hamilton had, say, made some public criticism that the golf team was taking too much of the budget, he likely would have been fired.
No coach could have won under such situations.
I disagree we might still have football today if Mike Cavan would have stayed or someone like him was hired. In 1996 there was improvement in attendance because the team was winning if we would have had a decent coach to keep that going I believe attendance would have continued to grow.
Hamilton took a great team that went 10-3 the previous year to not even being able to beat The Citadel on the home field and only going 7-4 in his first season, because he was to busy running the option with a group of players that had no idea how to run it. The administration killed football by hiring Hamilton and then put the nail in the coffin by dropping it all together.
How did Todd Wells throw for 500 yards at Appalachian in '97 if Hamilton was trying to run the option?
That's a bad rap. I don't think Hamilton ran the option at any time during his tenure as a head coach, either here or at Elon.
Check on that, but I'm pretty sure that's true.
Regardless, if Cavan had stayed, he would have likely gone to Mississippi in 1998. He was a strong candidate there that year and if his word is to be believed, since he had just led SMU to their only winning record since the Death Penalty, he wanted to stay at SMU "to finish the job."
I kind of believe that because he won at SMU initially he thought he could have been a candidate at Georgia in time. In theory, winning at SMU rather than experiencing the .500 level he likely would have had at Mississippi might have made him a more viable candidate at Georgia someday.
But getting back to the point if Cavan had stayed in '97, there is a school of thought ETSU football would have been done a lot earlier than it was.
Remember, by '98 ETSU is having to schedule those two money games. There would not have been any significant ticket increase- people didn't stay home after a 10-3 season because Cavan wasn't around.
Cavan's detractors- and he had fans but also a lot of detractors- were angry at some minor rules violations committed during his tenure.
Let's just say Cavan was popular with ETSU fans and media but not some internal people.
So if Cavan had left to go to Mississippi in '98, which he almost assuredly would have done had he not gone to SMU in '97, then the powers that be that killed football might have started then.
Pitt you cant be serious. He freaking tried to run the option every year from about 99 on. It always failed miserably. His play calling was so predictable.
He wouldn't have run the option when Wells was here.
He didn't run the option against Pitt.
Do you know what the option is?
ETSUfan1 Wrote:Pitt you cant be serious. He freaking tried to run the option every year from about 99 on. It always failed miserably. His play calling was so predictable.
Hamilton ran the offense that he could with the players he had. He occasionally ran an option, but that was not his primary offense. Remember he was limited in scholarships, he was limited to recruting x% of in-state players. Heck, I'm surprised he could run any offense.
Hamilton's hands were tied so tight Houdini couldn't have helped him. He recruited the best athletes he could and then tried, yes experimented and tried, to find an offense his recruits could run. All the while his competition was funded such that they could recruit the players that FIT their offense.
Pitt you are right about the App State game when Todd Wells threw for over 500 yards. He didn't run the option in that game or the game against Furman, however, in EVERY game ETSU lost that season he tried to run the option and failed miserably. Hamilton was actually smart in the Furman and App State games and used his guns which was a QB with a strong arm and two receivers that could catch about anything thrown at them. That is the way he should have coached every game that year but he didn't. In the games he lost especially The Citadel and Chatt game he tried to run the option and couldn't do it and he screwed over the 1997 team from going to the playoffs because of that.
After 1997 Hamilton's play-calling got progressively worse. By the end of his tenure the man seriously had only 4 plays. These plays were; QB Draw, Run up the Middle, the option/fumble and GOOOOOOOOOO DEEEEEEEP!! The year we beat GSU the QB Draw actually worked, somehow(and I have no idea how) we got 10-12 yards every time we ran it, but that was the only game that the powerful Hamilton offense of 4 plays ever succeeded.
If Hamilton is such a damn good coach, then why did he get canned at Elon? Starting his freshman son as the QB the first year, while benching the QB that started the year before probably didnt help.
ETSUfan1 Wrote:If Hamilton is such a damn good coach, then why did he get canned at Elon? Starting his freshman son as the QB the first year, while benching the QB that started the year before probably didnt help.
I don't know if your comment was targeted at my posting or not, but I'll chime in. I have no idea what kind of coach Paul Hamilton is/was or could be. All I know is there was no possible way for him to win at ETSU. However I CAN say that his players graduated in spite of the hand they were dealt.
It could have been worse, he could have recruited lots of players with academic problems, social problems, legal problems, oh wait maybe that was another coach...
Paul Hamilton was a class act and for the most part so was everyone associated with his program. Was he a good coach, who knows...he had NO chance to prove that part of his resume.
I'd have to agree with Fan.The fact that Elon fired the man shows you that he just wasn't a good coach. Benching your starting QB in favor of your Freshman son just isn't a good move and centering an offense around the QB draw isn't to impressive either.
Oh come on Fan1- you're better than that.
By the same token, we could ask why if Mike Cavan was such a good coach he couldn't do anything at SMU!
Was Les Robinson a lousy basketball coach at ETSU because his tenure at NCSU was less than stellar?
If DeChellis gets canned up at Penn State- does that mean he didn't turn around ETSU when he was here?
I'm not going to say I agreed with everything Hamilton ever did as head coach at ETSU. I tend to think he was overly optimistic, but at the end of the day it's better to go into a game with a positive attitude than a negative one.
But show me the coach you agree with every move he makes.
Hamilton didn't run the option much here. It was a rather bad rap that he got put on him because he came from Air Force and so predictably every mouth breather thought ETSU was going to run it.
Some examples- the '96 team under Cavan statistically ran the ball more than any Hamilton team ever did, and two of the top five season passing yard totals in ETSU history came under Hamilton's coaching tenure.
Hamilton actually had a higher winning pct. than John Robert Bell.
As his administration was tearing his program apart he posted four winning seasons in five years.
The only thing I know that I would have liked to have seen from Hamilton more- in addition to not talking about going 8-3 when you are just blown out by six touchdowns to Georgia Southern to fall to 5-3- was to make a few public comments about what his administration was doing to him.
But I realize he would probably have been the one burned if he had done such a thing.
There's even a report that had Hamilton not lobbied for one final season ETSU would have dropped football at the moment of the announcement in 2003.
You want to tell me you didn't like his play calling- okay. That's one thing.
But don't tell me he killed ETSU football. He probably kept it going longer than anyone else could.
Quote:Hamilton actually had a higher winning pct. than John Robert Bell.
But he NEVER made the playoffs!!!! I am disappointed in you Pitt you are the one that is constantly nagging the basketball team because they haven't made the NCAA tournament since they have been in the A-Sun and you always take away non-division 1 games away from their final record.
Yet you praise Hamilton for going 6-5 every year only because he beat the bottom dwellers of the Socon every season and usually a division 2 school? Why don't you take away the division 2 wins away from Hamilton?? Its the same thing. Come on Pitt you're better than that.
I dont think Hamilton killed ETSU football.
I do think he was a lousy coach. Look, every coach you listed there MOVED UP after they left ETSU. Maybe they werent suited for the highest levels of coaching so thats why they didnt last. Paul Hamilton went to Elon. Hardly a step up.
It's hardly the same situation!
A college is dropping its program. Yet here a conference rival thinks so highly of him they sign him.
Elon has football. ETSU doesn't. That's moving up.
Mike Ayers went from ETSU to a Division II. Was he a lousy coach?
Nuck- in the history of ETSU football ONE coach has made the playoffs.
I want you to tell me how you're supposed to make the playoffs when you are getting 11 fewer scholarships than everyone else- and you have to ask for the Pirate Club to try to make up the difference (which they didn't do).
I want you to tell me how when everyone is actively trying to sabatoge your program- when Wayne Andrews is making public comments about killing it- you're supposed to make the playoffs.
Off the top of my head, '97 ETSU had to start a freshman QB and new receivers. And you're getting on them for going from 9-2 to 7-4?
You get on '97 ETSU for losing to Citadel and Chattanooga. Both of them had winning records!
This "ETSU lost because of the option" isn't true.
You want to get on him for not hiring an OC, you have a point. And yes, I see where a coach going from 9-2 to 7-4 would merit criticism.
But as I found out more of the circumstances he had to coach under, it is simply amazing ETSU was able to have the success they did during Hamilton's tenure.
Cavan had Fry, who really turned a lot of things towards football success. Fry took scholarships from other programs so ETSU football would be able to be competitive. Hamilton had no such luxury and had to deal with those coaches speaking behind his back.
Pitt ETSU was loaded with talent in 1997, yes they had a Freshman QB but he was a damn good one. The 1997 team ranked 6th in the nation in the pre-season and picked to win the Socon (Marshall had left the previous year).
In 1997 ETSU won the conference awards for Freshman of the year: Todd Wells. Offensive Player of the year: Who was either Wells or one of the receivers I can't remember. AND Defensive player of the year. There is NO excuse for a team to win all 3 of those awards and go 7-4. ETSU swept the regular season awards with the exception of one, which was the one that mattered, coach of the year.
Hamilton choked on his home field against Chatt and The Citadel, and he lost to a VERY mediocre James Madison team that year as well.
If Cavan had coached the 1997 team they would have been a playoff team and would have lost maybe 1 or 2 games in the regular season maybe not even that.
And finally I believe ETSU played a non-division 1 school almost every season so all of these seasons that Hamilton went 6-5 you should changed it to 5-5 since that is what you do with the basketball team.
Hamilton was a horrible Coach the man got fired from Elon.
Tennessee had a damn good freshman QB in 1994.
They went 7-4, too.
Does Phil Fulmer suck, too?
Did Greg Johnson play in '97? Or did he graduate?
So a team with an entirely new passing offense is going to duplicate the 9-2 season.
In the Southern Conference.
Right.
James Madison was a bad loss. No question.
But anyone who knows what was really going on- how Cavan was allowed to build his program up in '92 with two guaranteed wins against Mars Hill and Charleston Southern and Hamilton was saddled with two guaranteed losses in '98- knows the fact ETSU didn't fall into ruin was incredible.
Again, I thought just as you did once Nuck until I learned the behind the scenes stuff.
There was no way that any coach was going to continue that 9-2 when Paul Stanton took over as College President. If Cavan had stayed, he would not have been able to.
Hamilton did an incredible job of keeping a team afloat when the circumstances around him were crumbling. Even that last season when coaches- sensing their jobs were in jeapordy- were at times jumping to high schools to coach- he was able to bring in outstanding assistants like Dale Steele and Rick Kaczenski.
Check this out- but I think Hamilton may have recruited more pros than any other coach in ETSU history.
Give him a full boat of scholarships and he would have taken ETSU to the playoffs again.
Well did the 1994 UT team have SEC freshman of the year, SEC offensive player of the year AND SEC defensive player of the year? Probably not. Hamilton did and he could only pull 7 wins out of it.
But to answer your question about Fulmer. Over the past 2 years Fulmer has sucked.