08-26-2006, 03:58 PM
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08-26-2006, 05:57 PM
I think this is great. As long as a program is going in the right direction both on and off court, I'm all for contract extensions.
08-27-2006, 01:08 PM
But Doctor- this can't be!
Why, the board LAUGHED at me when I said that Penn State would make the NIT.
Oh, wait, they did.
Once again, PittsburghBucs laughs last!
I have an interesting question for the board. Why is it that ETSU fans revere Les Robinson, who left for his alma mater but is not nearly the coach DeChellis was, but they don't revere DeChellis, who also left for his alma mater, and -
Who inherited a worse situation
Who stayed longer and won longer
Who opened up more to the community
Who has had more success in his post-ETSU career than Robinson has
Who brought in higher character players
Who had his daughter stay in the community after he left
Who didn't have all of his success based SOLEY on the fact Alan LeForce stumbled upon Keith Jennings
Why is that?
Oh, yeah.
Geographical bigotry.
Why, the board LAUGHED at me when I said that Penn State would make the NIT.
Oh, wait, they did.
Once again, PittsburghBucs laughs last!
I have an interesting question for the board. Why is it that ETSU fans revere Les Robinson, who left for his alma mater but is not nearly the coach DeChellis was, but they don't revere DeChellis, who also left for his alma mater, and -
Who inherited a worse situation
Who stayed longer and won longer
Who opened up more to the community
Who has had more success in his post-ETSU career than Robinson has
Who brought in higher character players
Who had his daughter stay in the community after he left
Who didn't have all of his success based SOLEY on the fact Alan LeForce stumbled upon Keith Jennings
Why is that?
Oh, yeah.
Geographical bigotry.
08-27-2006, 04:28 PM
I wouldn't say that DeChellis is a better coach than Robinson, and I don't have any issues with either.
08-27-2006, 06:41 PM
Let me clarify a bit, I also don't say that Robinson was a better coach than Dechellis. Each found different situations when they arrived at ETSU and each did an admirable job of improving the situations. Each used their own unique strenghts, insights, and resources to improve Buc basketball.
08-27-2006, 07:23 PM
PittsburghBucs Wrote:Who has had more success in his post-ETSU career than Robinson has
Who brought in higher character players
Who didn't have all of his success based SOLEY on the fact Alan LeForce stumbled upon Keith Jennings
Oh, yeah.
Geographical bigotry.
To early to say DeChellis has had more success then Robinson, Robinson went to the NCAA a couple of times at NC State and won 20+, DeChellis played 500 ball and went to the NIT.
Higher character?? Who was Robinson's problem players? and who brought in Wade and Smith?
All of Robinson success was based SOLEY on Jennings?
Wow what about all those other 1000+ scorers
Dennis
Talford
West
Geer
Silvers
and players like
English
Story
Pelphery
Jennings was not the only talent on those teams and he wasn't even able to lead ETSU to an NCAA win, that was Nibblett at the point.
08-27-2006, 07:30 PM
who brought in Wade and Smith?
I wouldnt classify Smith as a bad recruit or player with a character problem. He just didnt like to pass.
I wouldnt classify Smith as a bad recruit or player with a character problem. He just didnt like to pass.
08-27-2006, 07:42 PM
PittsburghBucs Wrote:Who inherited a worse situation
Who stayed longer and won longer
Why is that?
Oh, yeah.
Geographical bigotry.
DeChellis inherited a team that went 7-20 over all and 3-11 in conference and year before that 14-14 over all and 9-5 in the conference.
So prior two years 21-34 and 12-16.
Robinson took over a team that had been 9-18 and 3-13 and year before that 9-19 and 6-10. so 18-37 and 9-23. Hmmm what looks worse to you?
Robinson went two 2 staight NCAAs before jumping ship, DeChellis jumped after he had made it to only one.
Robinson 5 years. Winning % of .527
DeChellis 7 years Winning % of .530
Yeah DeChellis really killed there
08-28-2006, 10:17 PM
Robinson only made the NCAAs once at NC State and that was with Jimmy V's leftovers.
Les Robinson was N.C. State's answer to Murry Bartow.
Interestingly enough, NC State and Penn State, where DeChellis was an assistant coach at the time, were in the same bracket that year (1991)- and while an undermanned PSU squad beat mighty UCLA- NC State was knocked out by Eastern Michigan.
Hmmmm.
And let it be said- DeChellis had one eligible player when he took over. They were in far worse shape in 1996 than they were when Robinson took over, that is undeniable.
ETSU was probably at their lowest point in their modern basketball history in 1996.
The interesting thing was that in the early 90s- fans regarded Alan LeForce as the superior coach to Robinson for winning more and for bringing in Mr. Jennings.
You couldn't say "they were Les' players" because LeForce was more responsible for bringing them in because of the way he singlehandedly brought in Jennings on a tip from an women's assistant.
Face it, ETSU doesn't get Jennings- none of that other talent comes to town.
The bottom fell out on LeForce and that happens sometimes. So he did a lousy job in 1995-96; his health was failing him.
Doesn't negate what he did in 1991-92- though it did in many shortsighted fans' minds.
And don't forget- DeChellis had three straight regular season first place finishes before leaving. Robinson caught lightning in a bottle to go to the NCAAs in 1989 with a fourth place team- playing an hour from home.
Isn't exactly like going to Charleston to play the Cougars now- is it? Isn't exactly like losing by one point to the Cougars in that game- in overtime- is it?
The superior winning percentage from a lesser beginning- the superior number of first place finishes- the fact DeChellis builds and Robinson delegates . . . there isn't even a comparison.
Final note- Ed DeChellis never brought in a player who tried to sell me a term paper- a la the third player on Shaw's list.
So to answer your question, I would take Wade and Smith- YES SMITH- over West in character. I most certainly would.
Les Robinson was N.C. State's answer to Murry Bartow.
Interestingly enough, NC State and Penn State, where DeChellis was an assistant coach at the time, were in the same bracket that year (1991)- and while an undermanned PSU squad beat mighty UCLA- NC State was knocked out by Eastern Michigan.
Hmmmm.
And let it be said- DeChellis had one eligible player when he took over. They were in far worse shape in 1996 than they were when Robinson took over, that is undeniable.
ETSU was probably at their lowest point in their modern basketball history in 1996.
The interesting thing was that in the early 90s- fans regarded Alan LeForce as the superior coach to Robinson for winning more and for bringing in Mr. Jennings.
You couldn't say "they were Les' players" because LeForce was more responsible for bringing them in because of the way he singlehandedly brought in Jennings on a tip from an women's assistant.
Face it, ETSU doesn't get Jennings- none of that other talent comes to town.
The bottom fell out on LeForce and that happens sometimes. So he did a lousy job in 1995-96; his health was failing him.
Doesn't negate what he did in 1991-92- though it did in many shortsighted fans' minds.
And don't forget- DeChellis had three straight regular season first place finishes before leaving. Robinson caught lightning in a bottle to go to the NCAAs in 1989 with a fourth place team- playing an hour from home.
Isn't exactly like going to Charleston to play the Cougars now- is it? Isn't exactly like losing by one point to the Cougars in that game- in overtime- is it?
The superior winning percentage from a lesser beginning- the superior number of first place finishes- the fact DeChellis builds and Robinson delegates . . . there isn't even a comparison.
Final note- Ed DeChellis never brought in a player who tried to sell me a term paper- a la the third player on Shaw's list.
So to answer your question, I would take Wade and Smith- YES SMITH- over West in character. I most certainly would.
08-28-2006, 10:46 PM
Jennings was a find, he had nothing to do with the recruiting of Dennis, West, Geer, Woods or Story. The other players recruited that same year.
West, Geer and Woods came from ETSU's North Carolina connection at the time. Story got homesick and wanted to come back close to home and Dennis was a 6'5 forward when we recriuted him he shot up another 6 inches before he made it to campus.I think Jennings was one of the last guys brought in that year. They had success and that brought in the others. Both guys won, both guys got a better offer and both moved on.
I don't see the need to tear one down to build up other. I do think that what Robinson built lasted longer and was more impressive then what DeChellis did.
R
West, Geer and Woods came from ETSU's North Carolina connection at the time. Story got homesick and wanted to come back close to home and Dennis was a 6'5 forward when we recriuted him he shot up another 6 inches before he made it to campus.I think Jennings was one of the last guys brought in that year. They had success and that brought in the others. Both guys won, both guys got a better offer and both moved on.
I don't see the need to tear one down to build up other. I do think that what Robinson built lasted longer and was more impressive then what DeChellis did.
R
08-29-2006, 12:44 PM
Trying to give DeChellis, the second best basketball coach ETSU has ever had after Madison Brooks, his due is now TEARING LES ROBINSON DOWN?
Les Robinson has done a pretty good job tearing down himself in his post-ETSU career, whereas DeChellis is now building Penn State into a competitive program, as they were when he was an assistant there.
I'm not picking Final Four appearances for the Nittany Lions. But I would bet on Penn State becoming a respectable program- something that ETSU is not and something that NC State was not after Les Robinson took over.
As far as Robinson's recruits, face it- No Mister- No NCAAs. EVER!
Or, at least not until DeChellis gets here! ;-)
DeChellis also had to work under multiple Athletic Directors and a college president who is less than friendly to athletics.
You could also say the seeds of dropping football were sewn when Robinson- who was the athletic director - brought on Don Riley to be the football coach.
When, as an AD, you can't keep your football coach who has taken you from winless to winning record in one season from going to a Division II school, something is wrong.
Yet there are people who wish to make up conspiracy theories- that Ed DeChellis had something to do about dropping football.
That didn't happen, but obviously, by Robinson's
failure to keep Mike Ayers on board, he de-emphasized football.
My guess is unintentionally, but who knows?
Still, the intent is irrelevant. The end result, whether by design or not, was Robinson hired a football coach who could do no better than 3-8 and firmly established ETSU football as a losing proposition that even the 17-7 run of 1996-97 could not change.
Thoughts?
Les Robinson has done a pretty good job tearing down himself in his post-ETSU career, whereas DeChellis is now building Penn State into a competitive program, as they were when he was an assistant there.
I'm not picking Final Four appearances for the Nittany Lions. But I would bet on Penn State becoming a respectable program- something that ETSU is not and something that NC State was not after Les Robinson took over.
As far as Robinson's recruits, face it- No Mister- No NCAAs. EVER!
Or, at least not until DeChellis gets here! ;-)
DeChellis also had to work under multiple Athletic Directors and a college president who is less than friendly to athletics.
You could also say the seeds of dropping football were sewn when Robinson- who was the athletic director - brought on Don Riley to be the football coach.
When, as an AD, you can't keep your football coach who has taken you from winless to winning record in one season from going to a Division II school, something is wrong.
Yet there are people who wish to make up conspiracy theories- that Ed DeChellis had something to do about dropping football.
That didn't happen, but obviously, by Robinson's
failure to keep Mike Ayers on board, he de-emphasized football.
My guess is unintentionally, but who knows?
Still, the intent is irrelevant. The end result, whether by design or not, was Robinson hired a football coach who could do no better than 3-8 and firmly established ETSU football as a losing proposition that even the 17-7 run of 1996-97 could not change.
Thoughts?
08-29-2006, 05:39 PM
Jennings was an important part of ETSU making it to NCAA, But so was Dennis, So was Talford, so was West, Geer and Story. Face it Jennings and Dennis were the 2 most important players for ETSU at that time. However Jennings led ETSU to an NCAA tournament without Dennis and the next year Dennis led ETSU to the NCAA without Jennings and won a game.
I much as I dislike the guy facts were without Smith Fields and Wadood didn't make it the NCAA and without Fields and Wadood Smith couldn't make it back to the NCAA. The Jennings/Dennis teams during there 4 year NCAA run had more talent around them then Smith/Fields/Wadood did in thier 2 appearances.
I much as I dislike the guy facts were without Smith Fields and Wadood didn't make it the NCAA and without Fields and Wadood Smith couldn't make it back to the NCAA. The Jennings/Dennis teams during there 4 year NCAA run had more talent around them then Smith/Fields/Wadood did in thier 2 appearances.
08-30-2006, 07:39 AM
I find it hard to believe that without Mister the Bucs make it to the NCAAs in 1988-89. They were a fourth place team that year in the conference and caught fire in the conference tournament.
Now, would the other players have come to ETSU if they were still struggling like that?
Mister was the key. Yes, the Bucs made the NCAAs the year after but one wonders if they would have without being taught how to win in the previous three seasons.
Before Smith, the Bucs were a strong team that had won two regular season So Con titles.
I truly believe he brought flash those two years, but little else.
People talk about how the Bucs were close in the NCAAs "and couldn't have gotten there without him."
That's bunk. I've been over this before. You put a traditional fundamental PG in there and against Wake Forest the Bucs take an early lead (they actually never led in that game- even when Wake was cold as ice in the first half) and can hold it. A traditional PG gets Fields into that game. A traditional PG doesn't get forced into a hole in the last 11 seconds when he forgets about the rest of his team.
How much farther do you think ETSU would have gone in 2003 and 2004 if Mister was the PG?
I realize that's like asking "Would the Steelers have won more Super Bowls in the 90s if Terry Bradshaw was their QB"- but think about it.
Now, would the other players have come to ETSU if they were still struggling like that?
Mister was the key. Yes, the Bucs made the NCAAs the year after but one wonders if they would have without being taught how to win in the previous three seasons.
Before Smith, the Bucs were a strong team that had won two regular season So Con titles.
I truly believe he brought flash those two years, but little else.
People talk about how the Bucs were close in the NCAAs "and couldn't have gotten there without him."
That's bunk. I've been over this before. You put a traditional fundamental PG in there and against Wake Forest the Bucs take an early lead (they actually never led in that game- even when Wake was cold as ice in the first half) and can hold it. A traditional PG gets Fields into that game. A traditional PG doesn't get forced into a hole in the last 11 seconds when he forgets about the rest of his team.
How much farther do you think ETSU would have gone in 2003 and 2004 if Mister was the PG?
I realize that's like asking "Would the Steelers have won more Super Bowls in the 90s if Terry Bradshaw was their QB"- but think about it.
08-31-2006, 07:31 AM
Rod, et al,
How many NCAA appearanced did DeChellis have at ETSU without Tim Smith, including the years he had Zakee, Jerald and Wade...
How many NCAA appearanced did DeChellis have at ETSU without Tim Smith, including the years he had Zakee, Jerald and Wade...
08-31-2006, 09:48 AM
But anyone who ever saw Tim Smith play and has a brain knows those teams went to the tournament IN SPITE of him, not because of him. There is no correllation- it is like saying "Virginia hasn't been ranked No. 1 since Doug Newberg left."
Like I said, those teams finished first in the Southern Conference for two years before Smith got there.
If Tim Smith plays in Charleston against the Cougars in 2002- he makes about 10 turnovers and the Bucs lose that one in regulation.
Like I said, those teams finished first in the Southern Conference for two years before Smith got there.
If Tim Smith plays in Charleston against the Cougars in 2002- he makes about 10 turnovers and the Bucs lose that one in regulation.
09-01-2006, 07:24 AM
You're missing my point. Eddie D., Zak and Jerald couldn't get to the show without Tim, it was proven two years in a row, throw Tim in to the picture, that puts them over the top... Then we saw what happened when the two left.
09-01-2006, 11:05 AM
You have no point. The run of ETSU in 2003 and 2004 could have been accomplished without Tim Smith and his turnover-assist ratio- which, let us not forget, was the worst in the nation in 2002-03.
Tim Smith's arrival and the two NCAA berths were coincidences, nothing more, nothing less.
To say that the Bucs couldn't have gotten there without him is to say the 1985 Chicago Bears couldn't have won the Super Bowl without William Perry getting drafted that year.
Sure, he got a lot of attention- but do you really think Walter Payton or Matt Suhey COULDN'T have gotten in to the end zone from the one? Do you really think the defense would have been any less productive without their fourth best defensive lineman?
It was the maturity of the rest of the team- in both the Bucs and Bears situations- that led to their success.
Not the flashy but unfundamental player who hogged attention (and in Smith's case, the ball) and whose contributions were overrated.
Tim Smith's arrival and the two NCAA berths were coincidences, nothing more, nothing less.
To say that the Bucs couldn't have gotten there without him is to say the 1985 Chicago Bears couldn't have won the Super Bowl without William Perry getting drafted that year.
Sure, he got a lot of attention- but do you really think Walter Payton or Matt Suhey COULDN'T have gotten in to the end zone from the one? Do you really think the defense would have been any less productive without their fourth best defensive lineman?
It was the maturity of the rest of the team- in both the Bucs and Bears situations- that led to their success.
Not the flashy but unfundamental player who hogged attention (and in Smith's case, the ball) and whose contributions were overrated.
09-01-2006, 02:52 PM
If that was the case then they would have had Four Socon titles, and four NCAA appearances... Instead that era only has two. Can you not accept that it was A TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT. Everyone involved, from Roger washing the uniforms to Ed helping lead those teams, to Kim keeping the players eligible... The stats don't lie Marky, Ed, Zakee and Jerald were North Division champs without Tim, they were SoCon champs WITH HIM.
And by the same token, ETSU has been in the toilet since Zakee and Jerald left, I believe that 03-04 team was on auto-pilot that season.
Eh, it doesn't matter anyway, the average fan is going to say the same thing, the teams in the 90's are what people remember, if you ask the general person about ETSU, barring them being a Jacksonville fan, they are going to say yea I know them, they're that team that was so good in the early 90's, whatever happened to them?
And by the same token, ETSU has been in the toilet since Zakee and Jerald left, I believe that 03-04 team was on auto-pilot that season.
Eh, it doesn't matter anyway, the average fan is going to say the same thing, the teams in the 90's are what people remember, if you ask the general person about ETSU, barring them being a Jacksonville fan, they are going to say yea I know them, they're that team that was so good in the early 90's, whatever happened to them?
09-01-2006, 06:22 PM
"From Roger washing the uniforms?"
You TRULY have no clue!
Yes, that team would have gone 0-30 if there was anyone else doing laundry. Anyone else clearly would have made the uniforms too starchy.
Who am I talking to here, George Costanza?
"COTTON IS KING!"
Again, claiming that Tim Smith was the missing link and not the continued maturity of Zakee and Jerald when he was clearly making more errors than benefits throughout his ETSU career, and the team tanked so rapidly after Zakee and Jerald's departure, is insanity.
Waht about Brad Nuckles? Why isn't HE the missing link here? Why is Roger in the laundry room- whoever HE is- a bigger man in the scheme of the Bucs tournament runs in your feeble mind than THE THIRD POST PLAYER?!?!?!
Roger in the laundry room. lmfao CLASSIC!
Now go defend Roger in the laundry room and insult me. I know you want to and you'll come up short again while proving to the rest of the world that you can't figure out who the REAL heros at ETSU are.
You TRULY have no clue!
Yes, that team would have gone 0-30 if there was anyone else doing laundry. Anyone else clearly would have made the uniforms too starchy.
Who am I talking to here, George Costanza?
"COTTON IS KING!"
Again, claiming that Tim Smith was the missing link and not the continued maturity of Zakee and Jerald when he was clearly making more errors than benefits throughout his ETSU career, and the team tanked so rapidly after Zakee and Jerald's departure, is insanity.
Waht about Brad Nuckles? Why isn't HE the missing link here? Why is Roger in the laundry room- whoever HE is- a bigger man in the scheme of the Bucs tournament runs in your feeble mind than THE THIRD POST PLAYER?!?!?!
Roger in the laundry room. lmfao CLASSIC!
Now go defend Roger in the laundry room and insult me. I know you want to and you'll come up short again while proving to the rest of the world that you can't figure out who the REAL heros at ETSU are.
09-02-2006, 06:41 AM
12 guys, one team. Don'e believe me? As the US national team about playing as a team. Yet again, those all about me overrated NBA jackasses lost to a team they should have blown out of the gym.
Fact is winning takes a GROUP EFFORT from everyone involved. Example: Let's say Zakee gets declared academically ineligible his junior season because at the time he deemed it more important to be at the local dirty dirty hangout.... Okay, had there not been a Kim Reece, or a coach in his earhole about getting his butt to class, that very easily could have happened. Could have happened to any of that group, but they had a support system in place at the time to make sure that it didn't. In the 03-04 season ETSU was getting blistered by UT-C, down 19 or something like that at the half, after Steve Cherry hit a shot from halfcourt... MuBar yanked his starters and the reserves got the lead down to 16...
And my favorite example, James Anthony goes down in the first game of the Socon tourney, the Bucs have Travis Strong, who played HIS ASS OFF in the tourney, and still has one of my favorite dunks of all time against Davidson.
My point is, Zakee and Jerald didn't win the conference, ETSU won the conference, taking that mentality that one or two players can get you there is why you don't see the Lakers winning championships right now, or anyone that signs Terrell Owens.
Fact is winning takes a GROUP EFFORT from everyone involved. Example: Let's say Zakee gets declared academically ineligible his junior season because at the time he deemed it more important to be at the local dirty dirty hangout.... Okay, had there not been a Kim Reece, or a coach in his earhole about getting his butt to class, that very easily could have happened. Could have happened to any of that group, but they had a support system in place at the time to make sure that it didn't. In the 03-04 season ETSU was getting blistered by UT-C, down 19 or something like that at the half, after Steve Cherry hit a shot from halfcourt... MuBar yanked his starters and the reserves got the lead down to 16...
And my favorite example, James Anthony goes down in the first game of the Socon tourney, the Bucs have Travis Strong, who played HIS ASS OFF in the tourney, and still has one of my favorite dunks of all time against Davidson.
My point is, Zakee and Jerald didn't win the conference, ETSU won the conference, taking that mentality that one or two players can get you there is why you don't see the Lakers winning championships right now, or anyone that signs Terrell Owens.
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