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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070418/ts_n...ting_dc_37

The murders at Va Tech illicite a multitude of reactions. IMO, one should not feel the need for a country, nationality, race, ethnic or religous group to feel they need to apologize for the action of a "like" individual. A sick and tormented individual that was apparently driven by internal demons and not some overarching nationalistic, religious zealousness, ethnic pride or political dogma that fueled their criminal action.

I certainly hope there is not a backlash as a result of this. Clearly, that would be more of comment on those lashing back and not on their targets.
You can bet that more energy will be expended placing blame than figuring out how to identify (and help) people likely of expressing this level of violence.

So far I've heard people blaming Koreans, the university president, the police chief, the teachers and students who didn't blow the whistle, the people who were told but didn't immediately act, the family of the gunman, the gun laws in the state, the gun laws in the country, video games (thank you Dr. Phil - dumb***), anti-depressant medication, and even the shooting victims for not defending themselves aggressively.

It's ridiculous.

-Dan
Which is why I need lots of liquor to get through a MSNBC or CNN news coverage of this event. The media is truly intolerable.
Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:Which is why I need lots of liquor to get through a MSNBC or CNN news coverage of this event. The media is truly intolerable.
What's it take to get through a FOX newscast? ;-)
If it were a Muslim shooter we'd have majority of the country saying we need to throw Muslims into camps and wear IDs just like after 9/11. I don't think there will be a backlash against Koreans, but if it were a Muslim shooter I guarantee there would've been a backlash and that would've made it even more of a tragedy. It's ridiculous that any ethnic or religious group would unfairly treat because of the actions of one individual, so I'm people are smart and sophisticated enough to realize that and don't do anything stupid.
You can't make the analogy between the Va Tech shooter and muslims. There's no history of South Koreans plotting and carrying out acts of terrorism on US soil and against US interests abroad. There is a very large and very recent history of some muslims carrying out suicide attacks against the US, our interests abroad and those of our allies.

Any future attacks by muslims against US citizens will therefore spur a new round of discussions about our domestic response. While I would not advocate deportation (beyond those who are here illegally on expired visa's etc..) or any other method of publically identifying or segregating people by faith, I would certainly understand greater scrutingy of mosques and muslim cultural centers and a more aggressive stance by immigration officials regarding the granting of student visas.
I think it's definitely a more than valid analogy. My point is you can't generalize and say that any one group of people should be scrutinized or discriminated against because of the actions of certain individuals whether it be a Korean or a group of radical religious zealots. You may think it's justifiable, but I certainly don't. Racial profiling has been proven by legal study after legal study that it DOES NOT work, yet our country is the first one to start using these measures to no avail. I won't ever stand for these types of actions just to cover up our insecurities and phobias around certain groups of people and make us feel like that it's actually working when it's making the situation worse in my opinion.
It's not racial profiling to look more closely at muslims when you have a history of being attacked by some muslims. It's an itelligent response to a real threat. If you have a segment of the population that shares a violent ideology and has a demonstrated history of acting on that ideology, of course you have to consider paying attention to the possibiity that some of those people are contained within the larger whole.

Do you suspect all muslims? no... Do you make an effort to impede or control all muslims? no... Do you pay closer attention muslim groups to see if any members are espousing the kind of fanatical hatred espoused by Al Qaeda? Of course you do. The ideology springs from a distortion of that religion...you have to pay attention to the signs that the distortion is taking root. There is no other way to do that than to be aware of the developments within that population.

It's no different than looking for people wearing red in an area of Los Angeles infested by the Crips or the people who would hang out with Tony Montana in Miami (oh wait.. Scarface was just a movie).

I think the fact that a religion has been perverted by a small segment of the population who claim that faith has made the issue as problematic as it is. This country was founded on religious tolerance and we need to be aware of that very important principle. However, we cannot allow that principle to deter us from being aware of the reality of the situation.
El Grande Flippero Wrote:It's not racial profiling to look more closely at muslims when you have a history of being attacked by some muslims. It's an itelligent response to a real threat. If you have a segment of the population that shares a violent ideology and has a demonstrated history of acting on that ideology, of course you have to consider paying attention to the possibiity that some of those people are contained within the larger whole.

Do you suspect all muslims? no... Do you make an effort to impede or control all muslims? no... Do you pay closer attention muslim groups to see if any members are espousing the kind of fanatical hatred espoused by Al Qaeda? Of course you do. The ideology springs from a distortion of that religion...you have to pay attention to the signs that the distortion is taking root. There is no other way to do that than to be aware of the developments within that population.

It's no different than looking for people wearing red in an area of Los Angeles infested by the Crips or the people who would hang out with Tony Montana in Miami (oh wait.. Scarface was just a movie).

I think the fact that a religion has been perverted by a small segment of the population who claim that faith has made the issue as problematic as it is. This country was founded on religious tolerance and we need to be aware of that very important principle. However, we cannot allow that principle to deter us from being aware of the reality of the situation.

That is probably the best explenation of this that I have seen offered on a message board 04-bow
I agree. This was one guy doing all this and not a planned attack from a terrorist organization that is backed by a terrorist state like Iran. Now if a group of North Korean militants entered the county and did a massive attack designed to disabilize our country and provoke something then that would be different. South Korea has always been a great ally of the United States and most Americans are smart enough to know that.
What is rather galling to me is that the worlwide media reaction to this horrific act by one deranged individual is the condemning of the U.S.A. for our violent gun culture. Just more America hating by the usual suspects, countries and cultures that are envious of our success. If this place is so damn bad, why are people still clamoring to get in from all over the world?

Meanwhile, suicide bombers blow up, what, 180 some people in Iraq today. (OUR fault, you know, not the fault of the evil folks planting the bombs). Islamic fanatics murder men, women and children all over the world and often videotape it and put it on their websites for all to see. What are these same world media outlets saying about the level of THAT violence? Silent. In denial. Or just plain cowed into silence. Cowards. They refuse to call it what it is - EVIL.

Instead, it is much easier to crack on the United States because one very disturbed individual killed 32 fellow students. One of these days when the Islamic jihadists reach into their own European countries and begin perpetrating that EVIL those anti-American outlets will wake up and actually have the courage to CONFRONT these evil people.
Four big bombs exploded across Baghdad on Wednesday, killing almost 200 people.

I bet many were young, innocent and going about their business and leave behind heartbroken family and friends.

I bet they don
I don't mean to sound indifferent to the horrendous suffering of others, but isn't it the job of the citizens and government of Iraq to take those measures?
Iraq has a goverment!?!?! :)
mossmaidi Wrote:Iraq has a goverment!?!?! :)

That is the rumor :shhh:
mossmaidi Wrote:If it were a Muslim shooter we'd have majority of the country saying we need to throw Muslims into camps and wear IDs just like after 9/11. I don't think there will be a backlash against Koreans, but if it were a Muslim shooter I guarantee there would've been a backlash and that would've made it even more of a tragedy. It's ridiculous that any ethnic or religious group would unfairly treat because of the actions of one individual, so I'm people are smart and sophisticated enough to realize that and don't do anything stupid.

It's looking more now like he was under a Muslim influence. All the rants in the recent video tapes and pictures point to a strong Muslim influence. I don't think we should allow anyone who is from a Muslim country to be allowed to immigrate to the United States. Their religion is not compatible with ours--whether they be violent or not. At the very least they want to userp our religion (Christianity) with the worship of Allah and Mohammad and other such sexual pervs who are no god at all. Certainly the Koreans we would consider our allies, but this one particular guy seems to have gone bad with a lot of Muslim influence. We should discriminate against Muslims in this country, and they should not be allowed to come here--unless of course they are coming to renounce their religion and become like Americans. They don't fit in here, and they don't belong here. How welcome do you think Christians are in Saudi Arabia? Look at countries where there is always struggle between Muslims and Hindus and Christians. In Nigeria, in India and in the former Yugoslavia that was torn apart by mostly religious differences. This always causes problems. The civil rights bill was right when they said it was illegal for employers to discriminate purely on the basis of skin color. But the dims perverted it when they added religion and sex and other factors.
Zone, read the book of Acts. I suggest a Concordance with commentary.

You will find that the Apostles, though at first, leary of "others", Gentiles, that specifically after Pentacost, where the fufillment of Jesus's promise that the Helper or Holy Spirit would make Itself known, that the "them/us" perspective evaporated.

With this new paradigm, prophesied centuries before and articulated by Christ himself at the great commission, the leadership of what appeared to be a small and insignificant sect set out to influence and shape humanity. That cant be done in isolation or by the sword.

That's not to say you surrender or dilute your faith by compromising. But Christ never talked about conquering but rather changing others perspective. You dont do that by segregation, you do it by integration.
Again, read the Book of Acts. The early church didnt set up a lemon ade stand and wait for the world to pass by, nor did they only keep what they had personally experienced to themselves. They shared the Good News. Can't be done in a vacuum or by lording over others. 05-mafia
mossmaidi Wrote:Iraq has a goverment!?!?! :)

Kind of...it seems that their military could use a little work though.
axeme Wrote:
Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:Which is why I need lots of liquor to get through a MSNBC or CNN news coverage of this event. The media is truly intolerable.
What's it take to get through a FOX newscast? ;-)



Lot's of whiskey sours... 02-13-banana
gobaseline Wrote:Zone, read the book of Acts. I suggest a Concordance with commentary.

You will find that the Apostles, though at first, leary of "others", Gentiles, that specifically after Pentacost, where the fufillment of Jesus's promise that the Helper or Holy Spirit would make Itself known, that the "them/us" perspective evaporated.

With this new paradigm, prophesied centuries before and articulated by Christ himself at the great commission, the leadership of what appeared to be a small and insignificant sect set out to influence and shape humanity. That cant be done in isolation or by the sword.

That's not to say you surrender or dilute your faith by compromising. But Christ never talked about conquering but rather changing others perspective. You dont do that by segregation, you do it by integration.
Again, read the Book of Acts. The early church didnt set up a lemon ade stand and wait for the world to pass by, nor did they only keep what they had personally experienced to themselves. They shared the Good News. Can't be done in a vacuum or by lording over others. 05-mafia

Did you know that the Old Testament is also a part of the Bible? Are you aware that there are many examples of when "Israel" would make pacts with those who were the enemies of God, that things went south very quickly for them. God was not pleased with them mingling with those who did not believe in Him. After they entered the promised land, God gave instructions to go up against the Amalekites and utterly destroy every man, woman AND CHILD and every cattle and beast. That is also the very same God of the Christians my friend. Doesn't seem very "fair" or "equal" in todays university culture that is obsessed with such words.

And what if the ragheads that are coming here don't want to convert? Then what? What if they just want to slay the infidels, put up Mosques everywhere and blare those stupid prayers over the loudspeaker 5 times/day? I'd much rather they do that in their own backyard rather than here.

The idea that all religions are "equal" is a part of that "equal" type of mush thinking that pervades college campuses today and was exhibited so clearly in the memorial service given at VPI. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life and no man cometh unto the Father but by me." And God said, "I am that I am". I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end." Now, how well is that going to sit with the ragheads who worship Allah and think Mohammad was "the way"? Can you see a conflict on the horizon? Any thinking person would. But, not someone who has been brainwashed on our college campuses to think all religions are "equal". As I said before the civil rights movement has been grossly perverted and distorted in these times we live in. We would be much better off to completely get rid of it.
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