04-05-2007, 07:00 PM
04-06-2007, 10:33 AM
Dunlap was our supposed Chicago connection. Not sure he's been all that effective. I dont even know if he gets credit for Lawson.
We have recruited Chicago before. We recruited Bryan Mullins (SIU) very hard.
Not sure if Dunlap is the issue, or if we've found players more to our liking elsewhere (Indiana for example).
We have recruited Chicago before. We recruited Bryan Mullins (SIU) very hard.
Not sure if Dunlap is the issue, or if we've found players more to our liking elsewhere (Indiana for example).
04-06-2007, 02:02 PM
. . . and I cant comment re CD1's remarks because I do not know.
What I do know is,
1. I like the kids we have on our squad.
2. I like what I have heard that the staff has had a priority to recruit and
sign players who are more athletic. Quicker, faster, stronger, jump higher and not sacrificing skill level.
3. Chicago, being as close or as near close as Detroit, is another deep talent pool that is geographically available and practical for a mid major.
4. Recruiting is relationships, ascertaining what the prospect wants and providing information in way that the prospect or influencer can understand and appreciate as to why the product fufills their wishes.
5. First and foremost is relationships. If your not known, seen or heard from you don't exist or are lumped in w/ the rest. Whoever recruits an area or kid needs to be present. For WMU's place in the recruiting "wars" you can't recruit in absentia. We do not have the type of reputation that proceeds our presence. So in the mean time a school of our ilk needs to be "on the ground".
I feel that a school/program like WMU is ideally geopgrahically situated.
You recruit 3/4 of Michigan: down the middle North-South and the lower 1/2 east- west. It is fertile turf. You then recruit the northern 1/2 of Indiana, with a focus on the northern 1/4 along the border. You then recruit "Chicagoland", the city and the collar counties going out 30 miles or so.
You cant afford not to follow the above plan. If Toledo and Kent are "in on" and signing kids out of Chicago that's stealing out of our back yard.
Why do programs like the above come to Chicago and not focus on Ohio? Because, Ohio kids are much more loyal to their state school. That state school is OSU. However, IMO, their is some regional bias. Cincinnati, often feels its them against Columbus and Cleveland. Several of the Cin. kids stick around and go to UC or Xavier.
In Illinois, there is not the loyalty to U of I as in Ohio. Particularly in Chicago and the burbs. A Marquette, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, IU and now more so, DePaul again, are considered equally or more desireable. So the kids that are not "thee" top prospect for schools just mentioned are certainly open to "other" schools that are "recognizeable". Butler, Wisc.Milwaukee, Valpo, Miami of Ohio, Kent State, Soutern Illinois (not recognized by Chicagoans as part of the state) and St. Louis U. Chicago has a number of kids that have gone to mid majors that are far flung and have had significant positive impact. Davidson, Wyoming, Gonzaga and Albany.
Donald Lawson is a good example. But he is just one. My thoughts are that a program like WMU must get at least 2 kids every 3 years from Chicagoland. The talent pool is that deep and that wide.
What I do know is,
1. I like the kids we have on our squad.
2. I like what I have heard that the staff has had a priority to recruit and
sign players who are more athletic. Quicker, faster, stronger, jump higher and not sacrificing skill level.
3. Chicago, being as close or as near close as Detroit, is another deep talent pool that is geographically available and practical for a mid major.
4. Recruiting is relationships, ascertaining what the prospect wants and providing information in way that the prospect or influencer can understand and appreciate as to why the product fufills their wishes.
5. First and foremost is relationships. If your not known, seen or heard from you don't exist or are lumped in w/ the rest. Whoever recruits an area or kid needs to be present. For WMU's place in the recruiting "wars" you can't recruit in absentia. We do not have the type of reputation that proceeds our presence. So in the mean time a school of our ilk needs to be "on the ground".
I feel that a school/program like WMU is ideally geopgrahically situated.
You recruit 3/4 of Michigan: down the middle North-South and the lower 1/2 east- west. It is fertile turf. You then recruit the northern 1/2 of Indiana, with a focus on the northern 1/4 along the border. You then recruit "Chicagoland", the city and the collar counties going out 30 miles or so.
You cant afford not to follow the above plan. If Toledo and Kent are "in on" and signing kids out of Chicago that's stealing out of our back yard.
Why do programs like the above come to Chicago and not focus on Ohio? Because, Ohio kids are much more loyal to their state school. That state school is OSU. However, IMO, their is some regional bias. Cincinnati, often feels its them against Columbus and Cleveland. Several of the Cin. kids stick around and go to UC or Xavier.
In Illinois, there is not the loyalty to U of I as in Ohio. Particularly in Chicago and the burbs. A Marquette, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue, IU and now more so, DePaul again, are considered equally or more desireable. So the kids that are not "thee" top prospect for schools just mentioned are certainly open to "other" schools that are "recognizeable". Butler, Wisc.Milwaukee, Valpo, Miami of Ohio, Kent State, Soutern Illinois (not recognized by Chicagoans as part of the state) and St. Louis U. Chicago has a number of kids that have gone to mid majors that are far flung and have had significant positive impact. Davidson, Wyoming, Gonzaga and Albany.
Donald Lawson is a good example. But he is just one. My thoughts are that a program like WMU must get at least 2 kids every 3 years from Chicagoland. The talent pool is that deep and that wide.
04-07-2007, 01:34 AM
Western is recruiting Jermain Simmons as we speak. He is at Mott JC (freshmen). They recruited him hard when he was at VonStuben in Chicago.
04-07-2007, 01:47 PM
He would immediately become starter at PG. His grades or lack of precluded a 4 year.
Not sure if Mott's staff would promote a MAC midmajor if they think he has the skills to play on bigger stage (and he does).
Simmons (not sure where he stands) and Lawson (got him) are nice starts.
However, not to be mean spirtied, but that was then, this is now. With this past year having only 1 scholarship to give, I would have hoped by focusing on '08 that what I read and hear would indicate a deeper and wider presence in Chicago. So far, nada. It doesnt mean we havent and are not. But when I read that Shurna has an offer from Kent State, that tells me a lot. Comparitively speaking the kid just surfaced. He's not Josh Crittle who has been on everyones list since 8th grade. So how does KSU, in frickin Ohio, not only have been able to evaluate the kid, but be so far along to offer. Simply, that they either have an in or have had their ears to the ground, eyes open and feet moving. Hey, they likely stumbled on the kid when they came out to see someone else with a rep. Fine, they were here doing their job. That is my point.
Not sure if Mott's staff would promote a MAC midmajor if they think he has the skills to play on bigger stage (and he does).
Simmons (not sure where he stands) and Lawson (got him) are nice starts.
However, not to be mean spirtied, but that was then, this is now. With this past year having only 1 scholarship to give, I would have hoped by focusing on '08 that what I read and hear would indicate a deeper and wider presence in Chicago. So far, nada. It doesnt mean we havent and are not. But when I read that Shurna has an offer from Kent State, that tells me a lot. Comparitively speaking the kid just surfaced. He's not Josh Crittle who has been on everyones list since 8th grade. So how does KSU, in frickin Ohio, not only have been able to evaluate the kid, but be so far along to offer. Simply, that they either have an in or have had their ears to the ground, eyes open and feet moving. Hey, they likely stumbled on the kid when they came out to see someone else with a rep. Fine, they were here doing their job. That is my point.
04-07-2007, 05:35 PM
GB, you're too hung up on Chitown kids.
Yep, Kent got Singletary from Chicago, we got Kool from MI. Edge us. We split the series with them, and won by a large margin at home. Not sure I see an edge.
Yep UT got some guys out of Chicago, but is it really Valencia Orange who stirred the drink for UT, or was it two MI kids, in Howell and Ingram. Answer, Ingram and Howell. Real answer, UT seniors vs. WMU sophs.
NIU and Northwestern had plenty of Chicago kids (NIU had 8 to be exact) and what did it get them? A couple of last place finishes.
The geography is irrelavent. It's about getting the best players available. You said Simmons would start immediately. I watched him in two games this year. He'd have to fight for minutes just like every player on our team. Solid, but not a standout. Let's just say if it came down to Des Gary from little ol'Elkhart or Simmons from big ol'Chitown, it's not a contest.
I have no doubt we are looking at Chicago players for 08, just like we're looking at Detroit players, and Indiana players. The objective is to get the best kids (combination of talent, character, academics), not shop geographically.
If Chitown talent is so special, why is Depaul going to Detroit and Benton Harbor to find its top players?
Yep, Kent got Singletary from Chicago, we got Kool from MI. Edge us. We split the series with them, and won by a large margin at home. Not sure I see an edge.
Yep UT got some guys out of Chicago, but is it really Valencia Orange who stirred the drink for UT, or was it two MI kids, in Howell and Ingram. Answer, Ingram and Howell. Real answer, UT seniors vs. WMU sophs.
NIU and Northwestern had plenty of Chicago kids (NIU had 8 to be exact) and what did it get them? A couple of last place finishes.
The geography is irrelavent. It's about getting the best players available. You said Simmons would start immediately. I watched him in two games this year. He'd have to fight for minutes just like every player on our team. Solid, but not a standout. Let's just say if it came down to Des Gary from little ol'Elkhart or Simmons from big ol'Chitown, it's not a contest.
I have no doubt we are looking at Chicago players for 08, just like we're looking at Detroit players, and Indiana players. The objective is to get the best kids (combination of talent, character, academics), not shop geographically.
If Chitown talent is so special, why is Depaul going to Detroit and Benton Harbor to find its top players?
04-07-2007, 06:25 PM
All good points.
My mantra re Chicago kids is Chicago presence.
There is very little, by WMU. I stand by that point.
That said, it is not going to be difference maker by it's geography. Again, it is the opportunity or not.
The kids in Chicago are no better than Detroit or Northern Indiana. As I said earlier I like our kids. Could we get better kids? Certainly. Again, the staff has made it a priority to get better athletes and better skilled kids.
My point, Chicagoland being close is a missed opportunity. If I was referring to SoCal, Fla., NYC, Tex., these are not geographically reasonable to assume we would have much of a chance. That would only be for a BCS name like UM or MSU. Unless there is some unique relationship. Even then if the geopgraphy is a hurdle not an open door.
Re the NIU kids? Who knows. Judson lost that squad quite awhile ago. Of those that were special or potentially special only 4 come to mind. Peterson and Hughes were Judson contacts from previous stops in central Illinois. Hughes was from near the Quad Cities on the Miss.R and Peterson from near Peoria in Pekin. Neither were going to even give WMU, UT or Kent a sniff. McKinney and Yelder would be the other two. I dont know if we were "on" McKinney or not. I do know we were on Howell of Jackson and lost him when Mac left. Going back to then, I would lean toward Howell simply because he was an hour away. Yelder, again, I dont know if we were in on him, but our focus rightfully was on Kool, Larry Wright and the kid Granger who opted for the Aces.
Valencia was not the straw that stirred that drink. Agreed. Does that discount Valencia? No. He had Joe's # from the get go. Possibly the one guy who never backed off from Joe and personnaly gave WMU fits. Was Valencias #'s and presence better than Bergers? With Joe and he screening for each other running a two man post have made us better? No question. I would still take Joe.
My point is that there is a talent pool that we are frankly very weak in addressing.
The best SEC freshman verballed Toledo. Did we ever make a play? Did we even have him on a list? They dont sign if they dont verbal and they dont verbal if they arent recruited.
That list, sans Beverly, is significant.
DePaul? Leito was never a Chicago guy. Not a knock. He is east coast all the way. Say Sammy Meija. No surprise he took UVA job. He recruited Chandler and 'Dre's running mate. Why shouldnt he? BH is only 2 hours from Lincoln Park. Tony Singer(?) now with a Muslim last name, coaches in BH, and is a former DePaul player.
Dar Tucker? Easy. Say Wilson Chandler. They're buds. RELATIONSHIP. Not a knock, just an observation.
Currently,Wainwright is focusing more on Chicago using his older connections. Mac Kowshawal. Will Walker. Cully Payne, Ty Moses just to name 4 in the last 2 years.These are kids WMU has no shot on.
My earlier posts refer to kids with MAC level talent or better. Get in on them early. If BCS's fall by the way side, junior gets an owie, BCS coach leaves, you have two shots. One straight on and another falls into your lap. Can't happen if your not there.
My mantra re Chicago kids is Chicago presence.
There is very little, by WMU. I stand by that point.
That said, it is not going to be difference maker by it's geography. Again, it is the opportunity or not.
The kids in Chicago are no better than Detroit or Northern Indiana. As I said earlier I like our kids. Could we get better kids? Certainly. Again, the staff has made it a priority to get better athletes and better skilled kids.
My point, Chicagoland being close is a missed opportunity. If I was referring to SoCal, Fla., NYC, Tex., these are not geographically reasonable to assume we would have much of a chance. That would only be for a BCS name like UM or MSU. Unless there is some unique relationship. Even then if the geopgraphy is a hurdle not an open door.
Re the NIU kids? Who knows. Judson lost that squad quite awhile ago. Of those that were special or potentially special only 4 come to mind. Peterson and Hughes were Judson contacts from previous stops in central Illinois. Hughes was from near the Quad Cities on the Miss.R and Peterson from near Peoria in Pekin. Neither were going to even give WMU, UT or Kent a sniff. McKinney and Yelder would be the other two. I dont know if we were "on" McKinney or not. I do know we were on Howell of Jackson and lost him when Mac left. Going back to then, I would lean toward Howell simply because he was an hour away. Yelder, again, I dont know if we were in on him, but our focus rightfully was on Kool, Larry Wright and the kid Granger who opted for the Aces.
Valencia was not the straw that stirred that drink. Agreed. Does that discount Valencia? No. He had Joe's # from the get go. Possibly the one guy who never backed off from Joe and personnaly gave WMU fits. Was Valencias #'s and presence better than Bergers? With Joe and he screening for each other running a two man post have made us better? No question. I would still take Joe.
My point is that there is a talent pool that we are frankly very weak in addressing.
The best SEC freshman verballed Toledo. Did we ever make a play? Did we even have him on a list? They dont sign if they dont verbal and they dont verbal if they arent recruited.
That list, sans Beverly, is significant.
DePaul? Leito was never a Chicago guy. Not a knock. He is east coast all the way. Say Sammy Meija. No surprise he took UVA job. He recruited Chandler and 'Dre's running mate. Why shouldnt he? BH is only 2 hours from Lincoln Park. Tony Singer(?) now with a Muslim last name, coaches in BH, and is a former DePaul player.
Dar Tucker? Easy. Say Wilson Chandler. They're buds. RELATIONSHIP. Not a knock, just an observation.
Currently,Wainwright is focusing more on Chicago using his older connections. Mac Kowshawal. Will Walker. Cully Payne, Ty Moses just to name 4 in the last 2 years.These are kids WMU has no shot on.
My earlier posts refer to kids with MAC level talent or better. Get in on them early. If BCS's fall by the way side, junior gets an owie, BCS coach leaves, you have two shots. One straight on and another falls into your lap. Can't happen if your not there.