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Just to clarify, NGF. My view is that the MAC needs to place more emphasis on basketball, as evidenced by the ranking of the Final Four as the sixth best sports brand in the world. Many jump to the conclusion that this means less emphasis on football. I don't agree with the zero sum view on this and accordingly don't understand the violent objectuons.

We can't do everything the MVC does, like pay coaches $400,000 +but we can do some of it. Following are three examples of things we can do as a conference that should take absolutely nothing away from football. In fact, success as a basketball brand may help football by increased conference exposure.

1. Pressure upgrades on OOC schedules with some help. The MVC actually threatened to fine members for playing weak OOC schedules, but actively worked on a conference scheduling strategy to aid their members in getting higher quality opponents. The MAC office has worked on a scheduling alliance with the Big Ten for football, why not basketball? The MAC works on something like the Patriot Bowl for football, why can't we bring back a Rock N Roll Shoot Out with some quality this time?

2. Partner with another mid major conference for media exposure. For example, go to ESPN or even the FOX Sports Network with a package of games between the MAC and CAA or the MAC and MVC as example, as sort of a poor man's BIg Ten -ACC challenge.

3. Really showcase rivalries for media coverage. The MVC gets at least one of the SIU-Creighton games on national TV. I'd argue the Zips- Flashes battles would draw some interest.

As regards facilities, the nicest facilities in the MAC are likely at NIU and EMU. Neither has done much for performance. Frankly, one of the most run down facilities I've ever been in is at SIU in Carbondale. All those championship banners sure do brighten the place up, and there is no evidence that a run down facility has discouraged talent from traveling to the boondocks of Southern Illinois.

FF, as usual your suggestions are sound and insightful. However, I should point out that SIU's arena may be run down but it is almost twice the size of the MACC. Although Kent's BB program has been comparable to SIU's over the years, I am certain that Southern Illinois has had a lot more fans attend its games. With the exception of its larger facility, what other explanation can you give to explain why SIU has such a good arena atmosphere?

From the article: "Southern Illinois

I suspect there are a couple of reasons, NGF. First, tradition. Last time I checked, SIU had something like four straight NCAA appearances. Even with coaching changes and player turnover, they are always in the think of it. Second, Carbondale is pretty remote, and basketball is about the only entertainment in winter. There might not be a metro poulation wihin driving distance, but the people in those parts turn out for games. Third, the quality of the competition coming through Carbondale is pretty good. Creighton is a huge rivlary, but frankly so is ISU and Wichita State. They get some good home draws.

I think we just need to make the MACC better, more of a fan's arena. Better seats, better sightlines, more whistles and bells. Certainly doesn't need to be larger. We have no need for a 8-10K arena as we have never had that kind of local fan base, and I'm fine with that. For me, it's all about the program--more fans would be nice, I suppose, but it's not that big a deal as long as we fill up the place for the big games, which we do. And it doesn't have to come at the expense of football, as has been said.

An aside: I think Worthen Arena in Muncie is the best b-ball facility in the MAC, though I like the EMU Convo a whole lot as well.

Here's my completely biased, yet acurate, ranking: ;-)
1. Ball St.
2. EMU
3. NIU
4. OU
5. KSU
6. Toledo
7. WMU
8. UB
9. Miami
10. Akron
11. CMU
12. BG

I would put BG lower if I could. Maybe I should consider some of the old MAC arenas like Withrow in Oxford, etc. and then BG would still be last.

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axeme Wrote:I think we just need to make the MACC better, more of a fan's arena. Better seats, better sightlines, more whistles and bells. Certainly doesn't need to be larger. We have no need for a 8-10K arena as we have never had that kind of local fan base, and I'm fine with that. For me, it's all about the program--more fans would be nice, I suppose, but it's not that big a deal as long as we fill up the place for the big games, which we do. And it doesn't have to come at the expense of football, as has been said.

An aside: I think Worthen Arena in Muncie is the best b-ball facility in the MAC, though I like the EMU Convo a whole lot as well.

Here's my completely biased, yet acurate, ranking: ;-)
1. Ball St.
2. EMU
3. NIU
4. OU
5. KSU
6. Toledo
7. WMU
8. UB
9. Miami
10. Akron
11. CMU
12. BG

I would put BG lower if I could. Maybe I should consider some of the old MAC arenas like Withrow in Oxford, etc. and then BG would still be last.

I like Kent's better than NIU. NIU is too dark and too big and you feel very far away from the action if you aren't on the lowest levels. I liked NIU's old arena more (which was a bit more like the MACC Center).

Quote:Remind the alumni that basketball is fun. Perhaps offer something basketball related in the alumni association membership (like the Hoopwise book, or a DVD of the Elite 8 run).

Actually, the AA already springs for 2 for 1 tickets for members. Like the other ideas, though.

This one really baffles me. KSU has had very competitive teams since the mid-80's. They went to the NIT 3 times during those years and that was a pretty good feat with only 48 teams in the NCAA. But with all that the MAAC very seldom fills up. If it's not an Ohio scholl the odds of a sell out is even less (note the CMU and EMU games this past week). All of the above suggestions would help but here is something to think about.

1. We need to get a foothold into the Cleveland media. The PD did not even print a wire service blurb on yesterdays womens game. God help us if Waters turns Cleveland St. around. If he does you will never hear of us again.

2. The biggest city in our area Akron has their own team. That hurts big time.

3. Many of the older fans don't come all the time because of the weather (the games on TV anyway) and the seats (not enough chairbacks). A little bit of money can fix the latter. Only Kent marketing knows whether broadcasting home games on Time Warner is worth it.

During the elite 8 season we had a game on New Years Eve at 2PM against St. Bonaventure. The place was full, we had many first time fans
(I must have been asked where the bathrooms were 10 times before the game) and it was a thrilling overtime victory. For some reason none of those fans came back. I really don't have a good answer and I probably never will.

I think we need to build up our fan base in NE Ohio. There are obviously tons of alumni, parents, etc who invested alot of time and money in Kent State. Getting people to the games is what we need. In order to affoard bells and whistles, we need to sell tickets (or just jack up tuition a couple more grand j/k.) But seriously, the good old radio and television commercials. More billboard advertisments. Let people know who drop $50 for a night at a Cavs game that there is a much better b-ball option 45 minutes away. Let people who are visiting our area know that there is some great D-1 ball. It worked for me when we visited Wasington DC, we went to a Georgetown game after seeing a sign about Georgetown Basketball. Then a lightbuild went on. But how many common basketball fans in NE Ohio know when there is a home game at Kent? Now how many know when the Cavs play at home?

AlphaFlash, I note that you joined the board just a few months ago. This discussion is not new. What you say is true, but it just ain't gonna happen. I've lived in NE Ohio all my life, which means since Harry Truman was in the White House. I firmly believe that nothing can be done that will do anything but increase the average attendance only marginally. The typical sports fan in this area, and I don't mean the typical person, but the typical sports fan, thinks of the MAC as just a slight cut above small college ball, such as places like Wooster and Baldwin-Wallace. If the Elite 8 team didn't substantially change the basketball landscape, what would? A Final Four appearance? Perhaps, but I doubt even that improbable event would having any lasting effect on the interest of the typical NE Ohio sports fan.

All things considering, haven't any of these things been tried? I know we live in Buckeye Country but if sports fans actually heard not just us, but the MAC schools in the area being advertised, they might think: "hey, I'll go check that out." I didn't live in the area as long as you, only since the Regan Administration, but I never heard so much as an attempt to advertise our teams across more than just Portage/Summit County. And thanks for taking in the account that I'm still a benchwarmer on the board.

Alpha flash,

I don't think it's really been tried. I've been around NE Ohio since Truman but until I moved to Hudson I never even knew Kent played good DI basketball. Not when I lived in Cleveland or when I lived in Lake County (heck you can't even find a Kent score in that paper). One day in 1983 I was driving through Kent coming from work and I decided to stop. It was pure luck. I think I once heard a women's game advertised on a Cleveland radio station but that was when the PD was really covering the womens team due to "political correctness". They did it for about 5 years and decided it was a waste of time. It probably was. Heck Elton doesn't even cover Kent full time anymore. He actually covers the MAC and is at Ohio and Toledo as much as he is at Kent and Akron. You can't rely on PD or Cleveland TV stations to cover you. You have to pay for it and see what happens. I'm afraid Clevelanders will still rather go around the corner and watch BW or John Carroll but it's worth a try.

I don't know what the answer is and never really have. But I hate the idea of us as fans marketing KSU basketball because of what you don't like about OSU or the Cavs. Don't talk down to potential fans. I go to Cavs games; I go to KSU games. I watch OSU games on TV. If you tell me I should go to more KSU games because the NBA isn't real basketball or OSU is a pro sports team, blah, blah, chances are I am going to tune you out before I say, "You know what you are right."

Look at a Wednesday when KSU is home and the Cavs and OSU are on, that doesn't affect attendance, IMO. More the issue is less and less people are going to secondary sports, minor sports, whatever you want to call them. Sure, people still go to OSU football, Browns, Cavs as long as people don't tire of it if they don't win a title. KSU, Akron, CSU are all battling for the people who really make going to their games a priority.

When I was at school, I can't count how many people would tell me I can't go to the game on Wednesday because they have class or have to study. While that is noble and why they are at school, it surprised me how many people saw going to games as just something to do if you are bored.

AlphaFlash, I hope it didn't sound like I was knocking your being new to the forum. I was just trying to say that this topic has been out there for a long time. Heck, I recall similar discussions among my friends and I as far back as 1972!! Burden is right in that stuff has to be tried, but I don't know what substantive effect it would have. Since the growth in college basketball starting in the late 70's and early 80's, at the same time as the increase in TV games with the huge growth of cable, and networks such as ESPN, more and more attention is paid to "The Top 25" and the top 6 conferences. Kids who grew up with that are now in their mid-30's. Teams like the MAC teams are thought of, outside of a few hardcore alumni and some students, as being of interest to only basketball junkies. The trick is to get the sports media of NE Ohio to take teams like Kent State, Akron, YSU and Cleveland State seriously. By that, I mean to treat them as if they "matter' as much as what is going on in the Big Ten, and with North Carolina, Duke, et al. Heck, several months ago I e-mailed the sports editor of the Canton Repository with a well thought out inquiry as to why that paper, which is located less than 30 miles from the Kent State campus, almost never has anything about Kent sports. I never even received an acknowledgement, let alone a reply. I would bet big money that if one would get replies from the media, they would just say that they give the people what they want. And, that would be true. But, it is a vicious cycle: very little coverage is given to Kent, therefore people don't care because they think they don't matter, therefore very little coverage is given! So, how is that vicious cycle broken? To quote the Bard, "Aye, there's the rub!"

Kent 76 Wrote:But, it is a vicious cycle: very little coverage is given to Kent, therefore people don't care because they think they don't matter, therefore very little coverage is given! So, how is that vicious cycle broken? To quote the Bard, "Aye, there's the rub!"

Well...I can tell you firsthand that the cycle is very difficult to break.

At Kent Sports Report we're trying to increase the amount of coverage given to KSU sports and yet, it still appears that people don't care.

How do we change that? How do we make people care more and want to be more involved?

KStud Wrote:I don't know what the answer is and never really have. But I hate the idea of us as fans marketing KSU basketball because of what you don't like about OSU or the Cavs. Don't talk down to potential fans. I go to Cavs games; I go to KSU games. I watch OSU games on TV. If you tell me I should go to more KSU games because the NBA isn't real basketball or OSU is a pro sports team, blah, blah, chances are I am going to tune you out before I say, "You know what you are right."

Look at a Wednesday when KSU is home and the Cavs and OSU are on, that doesn't affect attendance, IMO. More the issue is less and less people are going to secondary sports, minor sports, whatever you want to call them. Sure, people still go to OSU football, Browns, Cavs as long as people don't tire of it if they don't win a title. KSU, Akron, CSU are all battling for the people who really make going to their games a priority.

Two thoughts: You can't tell fans that they should care more about Kent than an Ohio St (ok, I don't, but a lot do) or the Cavs, but given the price of tickets to a Cavs/Browns/Indians game, there is no reason why a Kent can't be the family friendly option similar to the minor league baseball teams in Akron and Euclid. Maybe Kent can say, for $40 you can take yourself to a Cavs game or your family to a Kent game.

The traditional print media is a shadow of what it was 20 years ago. Too much consolidation, too many other outlets to get the information (cable, internet, etc.). I haven't gotten a newspaper for 8 years. Don't miss it. If you are trying to drum up interest, it's probably the wrong media to concentrate on. I'd say local TV (short briefs in the news) and cable is a better route.

I'm not bashing people who watch OSU or go to Cavs games. But for a typical sports fanatic, you can spend a good $40-50 in one night at the Q or sit in front of a tv and watch a college team that is 2 hours away verses driving a short distance, flip out $10 (or an old student i.d.) and get in to a sporting event that is just as entertaining.
I know that this will not happen with the help of The PD, BJ or Tony Rizzo and the other NE Ohio media. But its not that we are at the mercy of the Cleveland media. I'm saying purchasing our own ads for radio and television. Anyone watch the Super Bowl? Anyone else cringe when Louis Prurnza and the University of Akron was plastered on the tv? Heck, I drive past their crappy billboards everyday on my way to work. Its not like it can't be done. After all, we are the biggest university in Northeast Ohio.
Even on campus, the only notice you have of an upcoming game is a lame A-frame sign in front of the MACC.
Now, I love our athletic dept. But somebody needs to wake up and realize that Joe and Mary Sixpack don't just go out of their way to know what is going on. Its called advertisement. It works.

Newspapers can't afford to try new things because they have to do all they can to keep their current readers. The PD's current readers do not care about KSU or the MAC in general. Newspapers are not getting new readers. I doubt bopol will come back to the Tribune or Sun-Times or whatever he would buy in Illinois.

KSU is not going to promote its game by slamming the Cavs. Yes, you are right about the difference in price. But I am not going to take my 10-year-old to a Kent game if LeBron James is his favorite player. I am going to save what I can to find that one time to go downtown to a game. But again, I don't think KSU does not have attendance because fans are going to Cavs games instead.

MAC sports must survive on students, alumni. Why? because we are the ones with a personal connection to them. KSU could draw 5,000 consistently and always sell out key games with just those who are not coming. I guess the answer to why they don't come is the key. As pointed out before it could be, fan experience, TV, going to local high school games on Saturday, etc.

I think KStud is right about TV, particularly games on TV. As to HS games on Saturday night, there aren't as many on Saturday nights as there once were, since high schools started playing games on all different nights. And, I noted that the attendance at high schools games, on average, is down from several year ago. Good point about the alumni and students. That is the key. If you look at the total number of students, plus the total alumni living within even 40 miles of Kent, it would only take a pretty small percentage to fill up the MACC. Personally, my own experience is that the percentage of alumni I've encountered who care even a bit about Kent sports is very small. I've never been able to figure out, however, why when Kent has a good basketball team, so few, percetage-wise, students living on campus, or off campus in Kent, seem to go the the typical game. That, to me, is a mystery.