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Just was crunching some numbers from the official NCAA website for attendance and here are the current attendance numbers for the MAC. This is not meant to be flamebait or to dredge up the dreaded 15k talk again.

Central Michigan 21,563
Northern Illinois 20,771
Toledo 19,589*
Bowling Green 19,528(a)
Western Michigan 18,625
Buffalo 17,536*
Kent State 17,004
Ohio 16,724
Eastern Michigan 16,453*(b)
Akron 15,993*
Miami 15,073*
Ball State 14,836*

KEY:
* = one home game remaining
(a) includes BG's game at Cleveland Browns Stadium
(b) includes EMU's game at Ford Field
Really, let's put all the talk to rest. There's a 7000 difference from #1 to #12. That is nothing in the world of CFB. Top to bottom, it's poor. Let's leave it at that.
axeme Wrote:Really, let's put all the talk to rest. There's a 7000 difference from #1 to #12. That is nothing in the world of CFB. Top to bottom, it's poor. Let's leave it at that.

Bingo
Is that announced attendance? The reason I ask is because BG's butts in the seats is much lower than that and their paid attendance is about 15-16K average for the year, so that number isn't butts in the seats nor paid attendance.
axeme Wrote:Really, let's put all the talk to rest. There's a 7000 difference from #1 to #12. That is nothing in the world of CFB. Top to bottom, it's poor. Let's leave it at that.

Yeah, it is pretty poor all around.
axeme Wrote:Really, let's put all the talk to rest. There's a 7000 difference from #1 to #12. That is nothing in the world of CFB. Top to bottom, it's poor. Let's leave it at that.

There is actually a bigger difference. Depends on which schools count butts in seats and which schools count tickets sold. NIU counts butts in seats. I am not sure what the other shcools do. That being said, a horrible year for attendance for NIU, we need to do better then that. The attendance rule is stupid, hopefully we can all be over 15K.
Does anyone besides NIU actually use butts in the chairs to calcuate that number?

Some of those numbers are laughable, and I don't mean how low the numbers are. I mean how much lower they'd be if they didn't take advantage of loopholes.
rocketfootball Wrote:Is that announced attendance? The reason I ask is because BG's butts in the seats is much lower than that and their paid attendance is about 15-16K average for the year, so that number isn't butts in the seats nor paid attendance.
I believe BG will be going with paid attendance. We should know something later this week about our figures, but we are over 15,000 average.

Thank you to Sky Bank, Time Warner Cable, and McDonalds among many other local businesses.
Toledo uses butts in the stasium, not paod attendance
seeds99 Wrote:
axeme Wrote:Really, let's put all the talk to rest. There's a 7000 difference from #1 to #12. That is nothing in the world of CFB. Top to bottom, it's poor. Let's leave it at that.

There is actually a bigger difference. Depends on which schools count butts in seats and which schools count tickets sold. NIU counts butts in seats. I am not sure what the other shcools do. That being said, a horrible year for attendance for NIU, we need to do better then that. The attendance rule is stupid, hopefully we can all be over 15K.

You ought to contact your athletic director and politely suggest that he stop taking stupid pills with his morning coffee and start treating the attendance rules [sic] with all the respect that they deserve. (Irony intended.)
Pulltown Falcon Wrote:
rocketfootball Wrote:Is that announced attendance? The reason I ask is because BG's butts in the seats is much lower than that and their paid attendance is about 15-16K average for the year, so that number isn't butts in the seats nor paid attendance.
I believe BG will be going with paid attendance. We should know something later this week about our figures, but we are over 15,000 average.

Thank you to Sky Bank, Time Warner Cable, and McDonalds among many other local businesses.

I know you are using paid attendance for the NCAA. However, I was referring to that number above for BG, which is not paid attendance, nor butts in the seats for you guys. That's why I am wondering if that is just announced attendance for each game and added up and divided by the number of games. Often times the announced attendance is different than the actual butts in the seats or paid attendance for many MAC schools. Might be the same for other conferences too.
This thread brings up another point that I'll :soapbox: for.

I said earlier this year that there is NO WAY the NCAA will be able to enforce the 15K and it's true.

Several MAC schools have manipulated the system and found loopholes and technicalities to get to 15K. Even Ball State almost found a way. 05-duck

Most of those numbers are not even close. Much of it is "Here, XYZ Coporation, please by 2,000 tickets to our football game for $1 a piece and throw them away if you wish. We'll put your logo on the jumbotron."
niubrad00 Wrote:Most of those numbers are not even close. Much of it is "Here, XYZ Coporation, please by 2,000 tickets to our football game for $1 a piece and throw them away if you wish. We'll put your logo on the jumbotron."

That is incorrect. BG actually found themselves in the position they were because they sold discounted tickets through the Blade. The tickets were discounted too much to count in paid attendance. Sky Bank and a couple of other corporations bailed BG out by buying several thousand tickets to their last home game at or very near the regular ticket price.

Selling them for $1 will not count in paid attendance unless the school has sold all of their tickets all season long for $1. And if they do that they will be dropping to I-AA or dropping football altogether within a year or two because they will lose way too much money.
I believe Eastern Michigan is just transferring money throughout the university to hit the number (Foundation agrees to buy the tickets, moves $1.5 million to the Athletic Dept. coffers. Athletics writes out a receipt for the tickets, then transfers the money back to the foundation). At least with the outside corporations "buying" the tickets, any money generated stays with the university.

No matter what, I'm just glad each institution found some way to get around a silly non-rule thrown in the way of being able to play a damn game.
Rocketfootball is correct. The rule does not allow you to sell tickets for super-cheap to beat the numbers. Corporations can buy a load of 'em at a discount, but not that much cheaper.
axeme Wrote:Really, let's put all the talk to rest. There's a 7000 difference from #1 to #12. That is nothing in the world of CFB. Top to bottom, it's poor. Let's leave it at that.

yes but that 7000 is 33% of the top attendance...that does say alot(though I suspect the big ten has similar number percentage wise)
I'm pretty sure the rule [sic], as finally implemented, allows universities to count all ticket sales for at least one-third of face value.

To the commenter above, gaming the system is precisely the point. At the risk of repeating myself for the dozenth time, the NCAA presidents -- a.k.a., the adult supervision -- thoroughly gutted the ADs' attendance proposals. While they enacted something (likely to save face for the ADs), it is *intentionally* full of holes designed so that only an athletic department run by staff dumber than chimps could fail to meet the standard.

The attendance rules as originally proposed were a travesty of the NCAA's alleged institutional values, but the final rules [sic] are merely a sham and a mockery of the original proposal.

In short -- and as I always say -- the attendance rules are fake, but the APRs are real. All y'all who have spent the last five years mentally masturbating over the former might want to devote at least half as much attention to the latter.

Take care,
DG
DevilGrad Wrote:I'm pretty sure the rule [sic], as finally implemented, allows universities to count all ticket sales for at least one-third of face value.

To the commenter above, gaming the system is precisely the point. At the risk of repeating myself for the dozenth time, the NCAA presidents -- a.k.a., the adult supervision -- thoroughly gutted the ADs' attendance proposals. While they enacted something (likely to save face for the ADs), it is *intentionally* full of holes designed so that only an athletic department run by staff dumber than chimps could fail to meet the standard.

The attendance rules as originally proposed were a travesty of the NCAA's alleged institutional values, but the final rules [sic] are merely a sham and a mockery of the original proposal.

In short -- and as I always say -- the attendance rules are fake, but the APRs are real. All y'all who have spent the last five years mentally masturbating over the former might want to devote at least half as much attention to the latter.

Take care,
DG

I wonder what a mental callus is like?
DevilGrad Wrote:I'm pretty sure the rule [sic], as finally implemented, allows universities to count all ticket sales for at least one-third of face value.

To the commenter above, gaming the system is precisely the point. At the risk of repeating myself for the dozenth time, the NCAA presidents -- a.k.a., the adult supervision -- thoroughly gutted the ADs' attendance proposals. While they enacted something (likely to save face for the ADs), it is *intentionally* full of holes designed so that only an athletic department run by staff dumber than chimps could fail to meet the standard.

The attendance rules as originally proposed were a travesty of the NCAA's alleged institutional values, but the final rules [sic] are merely a sham and a mockery of the original proposal.

In short -- and as I always say -- the attendance rules are fake, but the APRs are real. All y'all who have spent the last five years mentally masturbating over the former might want to devote at least half as much attention to the latter.

Take care,
DG

I don't believe a word of that. You must cite a source. I hope you caught the sarcasm and irony there from the other thread.
Quote:Several MAC schools have manipulated the system and found loopholes and technicalities to get to 15K. Even Ball State almost found a way.

Per an interview with BSU AD Tom Collins in Cardinals Illustrated, BSU has been reporting actual attendance figures in the box scores for media accuracy, but has been submitting paid attendance figures to the NCAA since last fall in accordance with the watered-down rule. According to Collins, Ball State *did not* receive a "warning letter" for last year, as has been widely reported, as BSU met the standard using paid attendance figures. If that's the case, then our paid attendance figures will almost certainly put us over the top this year, too.

Collins also said the current popular interpretation of the rule by the media and the Internet is "flawed." (I'm guessing one the first flaws is that people assume the figure in the box score is legal documentation for the NCAA, and it's not).

Carry on...
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