CSNbbs

I'm 49, and I was playing football in high school from 1972 to 1974. Miami of Ohio was only about 30 miles from my hometown of Harrison, Ohio. I remember going to several games during the great 1973 to 1975 era at Miami. Two players from my high school played on those teams. I guess to me Miami was a team that could compete with the big boys and yet still maintain academic standards. Of course most of us like to root for the underdog that isn't suppossed to be able to beat big name teams. I think back then Miami was even more of a conservative school than it is now. One of the best games I ever saw was the 1973 Miami/Kent State game.

But, I wonder if there can every be a non-BCS team like Miami was in those 3 years. Things have changed now. There seems to be less and less importance given to academics. And players don't look like the players I knew back in the early 70's. There are a lot more black players of course, but so many have the tats plastered all over themselves. Somehow these players don't seem like they are really part of the college group. In fact, I've had students at different schools tell me there is a lot of hostility between the players and the student body now. I don't know if it is true or not, but the players sure don't seem like average students who also happen to be football players. To me they seem like football players who couldn't care less about anything else except some sort of venue to play football. There seems to be a lot more importance given to winning rather than developing athletes as people and maintaining excellence. Of course maybe I'm just delusional in thinking that players card more about their academics back then than they do now. But certainly the players looked more like the rest of the students back then if nothing else. Coaches salares have become obscenely high--especially at schools like Florida, Tennesee, LSU, etc. I think I may need a reality check that college football will never be like it was back then.

Anyway, here are the results of the Tangerine Bowl that I could copy and paste from my computer screen. The game is now called the Capital One Bowl. It's interesting to note that after the Miami wins the bowl attracted almost exclusively BCS schools. Something seemed to fundamentally change after the Miami years. I remember watching the Miami game vs. Florida on TV when I was a teen. Trip down memory lane I guess.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_One_Bowl

He played in the mid to late 70s. But I know former Miami DB Jeff Buchanan in a professional sense. He has great stories about playing with Randy Walker and Rob Carpenter and several other future professional players and coaches.

Both Toledo and Miami had great runs that will not be duplicated by MAC teams.

I played LB and fullback in HS, and I remember commenting to a friend at the 1973 Kent State/Miami game that the LB with number so-and-so was really good. I didn't realize it at the time, but I wonder now if it wasn't Jack lambert. I'll have to try and find out if he played LB his senior year during that game.

KStud Wrote:He played in the mid to late 70s. But I know former Miami DB Jeff Buchanan in a professional sense. He has great stories about playing with Randy Walker and Rob Carpenter and several other future professional players and coaches.

Both Toledo and Miami had great runs that will not be duplicated by MAC teams.

I think if Toledo would have played the teams that Miami did after Toledo did in the Tangerine Bowl. Toledo might have had a national championship during our undefeated run.

Well I did some research, and Lambert did play LB at Kent State. I remember him during that 1973 Miami/KSU game. He was kind of tall and lanky looking and his thing was to throw that right forearm just as hard as he could at the blocker or FB that was trying to block him. He met blockers and runners head on.

To answer your question, I think the Miami (IN) team w/ Roethlisberger at QB was at that level.

They had a first game loss to Iowa, but clobbered everybody after that, including a pretty good BG team (2x). BG's only other loss that year was a narrow one to Zero State.

I am a Miami guy, but I think it can happen again.

In fact, I would argue that Boise State's current history would be close to Miami's 3 year run.

And quite frankly Marshall run in the late 90's came close. I think they were ranked 3 teams in the final polls in 5 years and one other team was ranked just under.

You're take on the Roethlisberger Redhawks is on the money, Torch, but I think perhaps he was referring to both Toledo and Miami putting together a string of three of those types of years. I don't see that happening, and, in a way, I think that's a good thing for the entire conference.

DrTorch Wrote:To answer your question, I think the Miami (IN) team w/ Roethlisberger at QB was at that level.

They had a first game loss to Iowa, but clobbered everybody after that, including a pretty good BG team (2x). BG's only other loss that year was a narrow one to Zero State.

They didn't clobber everyone else.
The Flashes and Josh Cribbs were beating them 27-24 with 10:00 left in the game at Dix Stadium. Miami finally won 38-30.

axeme Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:To answer your question, I think the Miami (IN) team w/ Roethlisberger at QB was at that level.

They had a first game loss to Iowa, but clobbered everybody after that, including a pretty good BG team (2x). BG's only other loss that year was a narrow one to Zero State.

They didn't clobber everyone else.
The Flashes and Josh Cribbs were beating them 27-24 with 10:00 left in the game at Dix Stadium. Miami finally won 38-30.

So they spotted Kent St 3 points, and in 10 minutes had a comfortable 8 pt victory.

Actually, Ben R. took them on two long drives of like 75 and 55 yds to make it 38-27, & KSU added a FG to close to 8, and I think got the ball back one more time with a chance to tie, but didn't move it or threaten. Cribbs and Roethleisberger put on quite a show, similar to the one later on in BG with Cribbs and Harris.
But it was a close, competitive game, the only one of their wins that was.

axeme's right on = except for the end. I am pretty sure they kicked that field goal with so little time that they had to try and on-side kick and didn't get it.

Cribbs played great that day.

That was also a strange game because it had a Lightning delay (although there never was any lightning) for about an hour. It was the same day as BG vs NIU and College Gameday.

chuckwalker Wrote:axeme's right on = except for the end. I am pretty sure they kicked that field goal with so little time that they had to try and on-side kick and didn't get it.

Cribbs played great that day.

That was also a strange game because it had a Lightning delay (although there never was any lightning) for about an hour. It was the same day as BG vs NIU and College Gameday.

You're probably right about the end; I was listening to the Bake call on the radio in my car at the time, and it was 3 years ago. I've forgotten far more important details than that in that time. ;-)

Sure Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina are big name teams......but Florida went 7-5 in 1973 with 5 of those wins by 7 points or less. Georgia went 6-6 in 1974 and the loss to Miami in the Tangerine Bowl was their 3rd straight loss. South Carolina went 7-5, and even lost to Appalachian State......a team from the Southern Conference which happened to be partnered against the MAC in the three Tangerine Bowls that Toledo played in from 1969-1971.

Sure, these were solid teams and the victories were great! But don't make them out to be too much and don't make them out to be the Florida and Georgia teams of today. They were mid-level SEC teams, actually South Carolina was in the ACC at the time, much like playing the #6 or #7 SEC team today. The Ben Roethlisberger Miami team of 2003 would have beat those teams too, and possibly even easier.


Make no mistake that they were three of the best seasons in history of a MAC school, but they aren't in a place that they can't be touched or equaled.

rocketfootball Wrote:Sure Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina are big name teams......but Florida went 7-5 in 1973 with 5 of those wins by 7 points or less. Georgia went 6-6 in 1974 and the loss to Miami in the Tangerine Bowl was their 3rd straight loss. South Carolina went 7-5, and even lost to Appalachian State......a team from the Southern Conference which happened to be partnered against the MAC in the three Tangerine Bowls that Toledo played in from 1969-1971.

Sure, these were solid teams and the victories were great! But don't make them out to be too much and don't make them out to be the Florida and Georgia teams of today. They were mid-level SEC teams, actually South Carolina was in the ACC at the time, much like playing the #6 or #7 SEC team today. The Ben Roethlisberger Miami team of 2003 would have beat those teams too, and possibly even easier.


Make no mistake that they were three of the best seasons in history of a MAC school, but they aren't in a place that they can't be touched or equaled.

Great points.

Of course SEC schools seem to think they were always among the elite in college football, so the attitude is understandable.

But, the MAC has had relatively recent wins over:
Alabama
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisville
Maryland
Missouri
NC State
Northwestern
Pittsburgh
Purdue
Virginia

That isn't too shabby.

Roethlisberger's Miami teams didn't do it three straight years. Marshall was good, but they didn't have three '99 seasons in a row. That was my point, but other points are well-taken too.

KStud Wrote:Roethlisberger's Miami teams didn't do it three straight years. Marshall was good, but they didn't have three '99 seasons in a row. That was my point, but other points are well-taken too.

You're right. Toledo's 35 game winning streak from 1969-1971 was pretty darn impressive, but in reality Toledo didn't play a really great team during that streak. Would we have defeated a ranked Pittsburgh or ranked Iowa team? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not.

RocketFootball: I don't necessarily disagree with you about those Florida, Georgia, and S Carolina teams not having great years (if they had, they wouldn't have been in the Tangerine Bowl) in 73, 74 and 75. But, when you noted their final records out, you included their loss to Miami, so S Carolina was 7-4 and Georgia was 6-5 coming into the bowl game.

Also, Miami pretty much dominated all three opponents (check the stats below) with our ball control/rushing attack and tough run defense, which I think is also noteworthy. Lastly, I am pretty sure that either the year before or after Florida was in the Orange Bowl with many of the same players.

73 T-Bowl: Miami 16, Florida 7;
Miami----FLa
First downs 14 12
Rushing 239 90
Passing 6 99

74 T-Bowl: Miami 21, GA 10
1st downs 18 17
Rushing 228 74
Passing 14 200

75 T-Bowl: Miami 20, USC 7;
First downs 19 17
Rushing 238 56
Passing 137 228

Realize that our passing attack was nil, but we featured an option or T formation (73) attack with a running QB 2 of the 3 years. The Florida game was played at Florida due to renovations on the Tangerine Bowl field. In the Georgia game, the stats look pretty even, but Miami had a 21-3 halftime lead and played conservative the second half on offense (and yet lost 3 fumbles) and let them complete mostly short passes on offense...Georgia's lone TD was late in the 4th quarter as I recall.

ECK - Don't take my post the wrong way. I didn't mean to diminish what happened in anyway. I was just pointing out that there have been solid teams in recent years in the MAC and there will be in the future, that will be just as good. Notice I said similar things about UT's 35 game winning streak. We won 35 straight games which is still the 2nd longest in Modern Major College Football, but we didn't play any of the best teams either during that streak.....just some solid ones.

No problem.....I understand and agree with your perspective to a degree. At the same time, given the way the big programs used to stockpile guys with the less restrictive scholarship top end requirments, it is still very noteworthy that our champion was able to whip up on schools such as Florida, even if they didn't have their best team that year.

I always thought it was pretty neat how Miami basically "smash-mouthed" those three teams by outrushing them a combined 705 yards to 220 yards.