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Seems like only Bradley advanced when you look at the MAC/Big 10 territories.

Has the midwest somehow fallen behind in basketball?

(Follow up question, does anyone really care?)

This is a football region

Think Todo would disagree with your assessment, Torch. Hard to get more Midwestern than Kanses.

The tourney is getting its best ratings in nine years. The conferences that realized basketball is THE mid majors shot in the national limelinght are getting all of the benefits. The timing of the MAC's decision to chase the wrong sport for our level could not have been worse. The MVC is just lapping the MAC, and it will pay off for them.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/story/9319220

FlashFan Wrote:Think Todo would disagree with your assessment, Torch. Hard to get more Midwestern than Kanses.

The tourney is getting its best ratings in nine years. The conferences that realized basketball is THE mid majors shot in the national limelinght are getting all of the benefits. The timing of the MAC's decision to chase the wrong sport for our level could not have been worse. The MVC is just lapping the MAC, and it will pay off for them.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/story/9319220

Bingo. Anyone here who thinks the MAC will ever break through the apartheid system in Division I football is a moron, pure and simple. The wealth disparity is too great.

Basketball, aside from being the vastly (and I mean VASTLY) superior college sport, also offers a much better chance at breaking into the big-time. There is no reason the MAC couldn't be having the type of success the MVC is right now, had it made proper decisions 4-5 years ago. The basketball could have then helped to elevate the football.

Instead, we're subjected to mid-major mediocrity in both, with a few MAC fans foolishly thinking that MAC football is "relevant."

BobcatFan Wrote:

FlashFan Wrote:Think Todo would disagree with your assessment, Torch. Hard to get more Midwestern than Kanses.

The tourney is getting its best ratings in nine years. The conferences that realized basketball is THE mid majors shot in the national limelinght are getting all of the benefits. The timing of the MAC's decision to chase the wrong sport for our level could not have been worse. The MVC is just lapping the MAC, and it will pay off for them.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/story/9319220

Bingo. Anyone here who thinks the MAC will ever break through the apartheid system in Division I football is a moron, pure and simple. The wealth disparity is too great.

Basketball, aside from being the vastly (and I mean VASTLY) superior college sport, also offers a much better chance at breaking into the big-time. There is no reason the MAC couldn't be having the type of success the MVC is right now, had it made proper decisions 4-5 years ago. The basketball could have then helped to elevate the football.

Instead, we're subjected to mid-major mediocrity in both, with a few MAC fans foolishly thinking that MAC football is "relevant."

Agreed. Is this where the often discussed MAC split comes to fruition? A split between the schools who want to go for broke on football and those who want more balance and to invest in b-ball?

B-Ball/balance schools - OU, Kent, BSU, UB, EMU, CMU?,
F-ball schools - UT, UA, WMU, NIU, MU?, BG?

Miami, BG, and CMU can go either way. The others appear to be more solidly in one camp?

akronzip Wrote:This is a football region

OH is primarily football; Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin and Missouri are hoops by a wide margin. MN while a hockey state draws better for hoops than football.

Bingo. Anyone here who thinks the MAC will ever break through the apartheid system in Division I football is a moron, pure and simple. The wealth disparity is too great.

Really, don't project your own program's impotence in football on other conference members. You can believe all you want that your program's football team is irrelevant in the eyes of the rest of the nation but that's not true at all for BG, Toledo and NIU.

The Huskies have played 7 BCS games the past 3 years including home and homes with MD & Iowa St, beating MD & Iowa State in DeKalb and Alabama on the road. Next season we play OSU & Iowa. There will be some serious $ coming our way for those games.

In case you weren't aware (and likely aren't) since 2000 the MAC is 6-10 vs the Big 12 North. Not much of a sample but a very respectable record considering only 3 of those games were at a MAC venue (one neutral site bowl). This year Toledo travels to Iowa St, hosts Kansas and OH plays at MO. With the losses those 3 Big 12 teams sustained to graduation this year, dont' be surprised to see the MAC take 2 of 3 which would give us an 8-11 record vs a BCS conference. There isn't another non BCS conference that has a record close to that vs any BCS conference. Plus with the BCS rules change allowing non BCS programs that finish in the top 12 to receive a BCS bowl game invite, the gap between the the two isn't closing on the $ level yet but all we need in the MAC this year is a "Utah" to change the national perception of the conferece. That and kicking out 2 or 3 weak sister programs for football only.


Instead, we're subjected to mid-major mediocrity in both, with a few MAC fans foolishly thinking that MAC football is "relevant."[/quote]

EMU lost to Cincy by 2 pts last year and Miami beat the snot out of them, OH beat Pitt last year; I'd say MAC football is relevant to the teams we've beaten. You can bet NIU football is relevant to Iowa State,Alabama and Maryland.

There's no reason why a MAC program can't be successful at both, NIU won the MAC West in both sports this year.

The tourney is getting its best ratings in nine years. The conferences that realized basketball is THE mid majors shot in the national limelinght are getting all of the benefits. The timing of the MAC's decision to chase the wrong sport for our level could not have been worse. The MVC is just lapping the MAC, and it will pay off for them.

I don't know which sport your program is chasing but NIU is doing quite well at both, thank you. 7 football games the past 3 yrs vs BCS teams beating Maryland, Alabama and Iowa St and winning the MAC West hoops title this year while beating DePaul (2nd season) and Kansas St. You can win at both if you hire coaches that evaluate talent well.





Instead, we're subjected to mid-major mediocrity in both, with a few MAC fans foolishly thinking that MAC football is "relevant."[/quote]

Ask Maryland, Alabama, Iowa State and Northwestern if NIU football is "relevant". You should know what their answer would be.

Agreed. Is this where the often discussed MAC split comes to fruition? A split between the schools who want to go for broke on football and those who want more balance and to invest in b-ball?

B-Ball/balance schools - OU, Kent, BSU, UB, EMU, CMU?,
F-ball schools - UT, UA, WMU, NIU, MU?, BG?

Miami, BG, and CMU can go either way. The others appear to be more solidly in one camp?[/quote]

NIU is a football oriented program but is successful at both sports, we won the MAC West in both this year with hoops wins over DePaul and Kansas St.

BobcatFan Wrote:

FlashFan Wrote:Think Todo would disagree with your assessment, Torch. Hard to get more Midwestern than Kanses.

The tourney is getting its best ratings in nine years. The conferences that realized basketball is THE mid majors shot in the national limelinght are getting all of the benefits. The timing of the MAC's decision to chase the wrong sport for our level could not have been worse. The MVC is just lapping the MAC, and it will pay off for them.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/story/9319220

Bingo. Anyone here who thinks the MAC will ever break through the apartheid system in Division I football is a moron, pure and simple. The wealth disparity is too great.

Basketball, aside from being the vastly (and I mean VASTLY) superior college sport, also offers a much better chance at breaking into the big-time. There is no reason the MAC couldn't be having the type of success the MVC is right now, had it made proper decisions 4-5 years ago. The basketball could have then helped to elevate the football.

Instead, we're subjected to mid-major mediocrity in both, with a few MAC fans foolishly thinking that MAC football is "relevant."

Notice how the only ones who complain about football are the ones, that for all practical purposes, don't have football programs

Who says the MAC picked a sport to go with? Are you telling me they're not committed to both sports? What is this non-sense? There's no reason the MAC can't achieve what the MVC is doing this year.

RobertN, I did notice.

onlinepole, I disagree about Illinois being a basketball sport. I think it's football territory.

DrTorch Wrote:Seems like only Bradley advanced when you look at the MAC/Big 10 territories.

Has the midwest somehow fallen behind in basketball?

(Follow up question, does anyone really care?)

Wichita State is in the MW. In addition, DePaul and MSU have advanced to the Women's Tourney Sweet 16.

You guys are kidding yourselves. MAC football might score an occassional upset, but there is absolutely, positively no chance that we will ever have a long-term, significant impact on the national stage. None. It's never happening.

If you think the MAC's current level of success, along with an exciting trip to the "GMAC" or "Motor City" bowl is relevance, then what can I say...

Every school with a bad football team wishes it had a better one. But every school with a bad basketball team wishes it had a better one. It doesn't mean either side would sacrifice the other. But it does go both ways. 12 months a year, KSU fans have to listen to other fans moan about how our football team drags the rest down. Well, our basketball team has 8 20-win seasons in a row but has never gotten an at-large bid nor a seed higher than 10 in the NCAA tournament. Why? Because most of the MAC considers 17-13 a decent season.

I know everyone hates going back to the 2002 basketball season, but we mine as well since football fans will use 2003 football as an example for the next decade. In 2002, Kent State was two wins away from playing for a National Championship, the equivalent of the Rose Bowl last winter. In 2003, honestly, how close do you think Miami was to playing for a national title? Tell me what is relevant.

Onlinepole,
Yes, NIU won the MAC West. But the best team in the MAC West was no better than the 4th best team in the MAC. You also have one of the worst attendances in the MAC despite your "success" and having one of the best arenas in the MAC. A portion of your fan base also wanted Judson fired as recently as six weeks ago. NIU basketball is in great shape.

The problem with basketball is there are well over 300 teams that compete at the highest level compared to 119 or so in football. Some schools with hoops programs don't even play football and are able to devote all their resources to that sport.

In order for the MAC to improve in basketball, several schools in this conference need better basketball facilities, including Akron. Coaching salaries are much lower compared to head football coaches in this conference. For schools with linited resources trying to be competitive in both sports, it's all hard to do.

onlinepole Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:Seems like only Bradley advanced when you look at the MAC/Big 10 territories.

Has the midwest somehow fallen behind in basketball?

(Follow up question, does anyone really care?)

Wichita State is in the MW. In addition, DePaul and MSU have advanced to the Women's Tourney Sweet 16.

I defined my usage of the term "midwest". For you to respond while ignoring that is cretinous. Don't waste my time w/ dumb responses.

akronzip Wrote:The problem with basketball is there are well over 300 teams that compete at the highest level compared to 119 or so in football. Some schools with hoops programs don't even play football and are able to devote all their resources to that sport.

In order for the MAC to improve in basketball, several schools in this conference need better basketball facilities, including Akron. Coaching salaries are much lower compared to head football coaches in this conference. For schools with linited resources trying to be competitive in both sports, it's all hard to do.

Not just that, but there are only 5 people on a court at one time for each team in basketball. In football you are talking at least 24 (very few play both ways anymore), when you factor in the kickers. It seems to me that there is a lot better chance that 2 or 3 really good player will slip throught the cracks to a Mid-major than there are of 10-15 players in football (i.e. 40-60%).

When you look at past history a lot of these sweet sixteen teams only needed one really good player (Wally Szcerbiak, AntonioDaniels, Antonio Gates, Gary Trent, etc.) to have an impact.

DrTorch Wrote:

onlinepole Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:Seems like only Bradley advanced when you look at the MAC/Big 10 territories.

Has the midwest somehow fallen behind in basketball?

(Follow up question, does anyone really care?)

Wichita State is in the MW. In addition, DePaul and MSU have advanced to the Women's Tourney Sweet 16.

I defined my usage of the term "midwest". For you to respond while ignoring that is cretinous. Don't waste my time w/ dumb responses.

What an *******! Are we having a discussion or drafting Article I of a contract?

Chuck Norris Facts Wrote:Chuck Norris likes to knit sweaters in his free time. And by "knit", I mean "kick", and by "sweaters", I mean "babies".

In other words, it's not his fault that you mangled the everyday meaning of the language.

Quote:I don't know which sport your program is chasing but NIU is doing quite well at both, thank you. 7

Define "doing well" in basketball? NIU is a team that should SHINE in basketball, pushing the MAC to be more than a one bid league. It sits in one of the three or four best metro areas for preps hoops in the country, has the best facility in the MAC and likely the best in Chicago, and as metro coverage for its games.

With all that, the facts that NIU fans are content with an occasional upset of Depaul in a meaningless OOC game and think 2,500 at a home a game is a "good crowd" define the the MAC's basketball problem. NIU is an also ran in a program it should contend for every year. Do you think SIU is content with an occasional OOC hoops upset?

Quote:Really, don't project your own program's impotence in football on other conference members. You can believe all you want that your program's football team is irrelevant in the eyes of the rest of the nation but that's not true at all for BG, Toledo and NIU.

The heck it isn't irrelevent. In the "eyes of the nation," the only bowl games that count are played on New Year's Day or shortly thereafter. The NCAA, especially with the current selection committee, has set a far more equal championship table for basketball. Who cares that MAC football has an occasional upset during the season? If you don't play on New Year's Weekend, your program is nothing to the average Joe fan. Try me? Take a poll in Chicago. Call into the home of the Huskies, 590 AM, and ask who the casual football fan cares more about...NIU or Notre Dame?

Quote:I defined my usage of the term "midwest". For you to respond while ignoring that is cretinous.

Speaking of such, go explain to the good citizens of Kansas that they do not live in the Midwest "by your standards." Then, after their astonished glares, tell them the region where they do live.

DevilGrad Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

onlinepole Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:Seems like only Bradley advanced when you look at the MAC/Big 10 territories.

Has the midwest somehow fallen behind in basketball?

(Follow up question, does anyone really care?)

Wichita State is in the MW. In addition, DePaul and MSU have advanced to the Women's Tourney Sweet 16.

I defined my usage of the term "midwest". For you to respond while ignoring that is cretinous. Don't waste my time w/ dumb responses.

What an a$$****! Are we having a discussion or drafting Article I of a contract?

Chuck Norris Facts Wrote:Chuck Norris likes to knit sweaters in his free time. And by "knit", I mean "kick", and by "sweaters", I mean "babies".

In other words, it's not his fault that you mangled the everyday meaning of the language.

So suddenly it's too much to ask for people to respond in context? Especially since you're both wrong,

"The term "Middle West" originated in the 19th century, followed by "Midwest" and "Heartland", and referred to generally the same areas and states in the region. The heart of the Midwest is bounded by the Great Lakes and the Ohio and Mississippi River Valleys, the "Old Northwest" (or the "West"), referring to the states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin, which comprised the original Northwest Territory."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

But, I thought by now you might recognize that happens when you argue with me, DG.
But, thanks for gracing us w/ your input on this one.
(Just in case you decide I mangled the everyday language, that was sarcasm. Stay on MHT if this is all you're going to bring to the board.)