CSNbbs

For all of the talk that Marshall fans have poured out to MAC fans on this forum about poor attendance (which is true most of the time), I couldn't help but notice that a lot of C-USA numbers this past weekend looked quite "MAC like" in the box scores. I wonder what kind of spin Herd fans have on this?

The true nature is that when non-BCS programs win, they draw, if they don't win over a certain period of time, they don't. Sadly, the Moutain West is the lone non-BCS gropup that consistantly draws well year in and year out.

This weekend's #s:

UTEP/Tulane = 13,153
ECU/SMU = 11,715
Tulsa/Rice = 10,983
UAB/Marshall = 27,182
Memphis/Houston = 12,800
UCF/SoMiss = 28,366

Ohio/CMU = 16,017
BG/Buffalo = 6,436
Akron/Miami = 19,312
Toledo/Ball St - 16,533
EMU/NIU = 27,641

An asterisk should be put by the Tulane game, being that it was played on LA Tech's field, and the school is in a state of upheaval.


I was supposed to go to Buffalo for the BG game, but my gal had a test in one of her graduate classes. I'm pretty sure I could have gotten that number up to 6,440.

Vandelay Wrote:For all of the talk that Marshall fans have poured out to MAC fans on this forum about poor attendance (which is true most of the time), I couldn't help but notice that a lot of C-USA numbers this past weekend looked quite "MAC like" in the box scores. I wonder what kind of spin Herd fans have on this?

The true nature is that when non-BCS programs win, they draw, if they don't win over a certain period of time, they don't. Sadly, the Moutain West is the lone non-BCS gropup that consistantly draws well year in and year out.

This weekend's #s:

UTEP/Tulane = 13,153
ECU/SMU = 11,715
Tulsa/Rice = 10,983
UAB/Marshall = 27,182
Memphis/Houston = 12,800
UCF/SoMiss = 28,366

Ohio/CMU = 16,017
BG/Buffalo = 6,436
Akron/Miami = 19,312
Toledo/Ball St - 16,533
EMU/NIU = 27,641

Houston attendance was poor because of the NLCS.

M97smith Wrote:Houston attendance was poor because of the NLCS.

Whatever. It is what it is.

I dont buy that as a total excuse.....

UofH football is a hard sell in this town, (they give away tickets at my high school almost weekly) The stadium is not easily gotten to by many in the city, there are many other events more popular with the general populous, and it is definitely not very well advertised in the community. True the 'Stros (and by the way GO 'STROS!) took some numbers away but Houston football will never draw well in this town. If you are a college football fan in texas (and that means everyone) you go to Austin and College Station to see a game. Hell, a good high school game in this town draws 10,000 or more....

Nick, if attendance is all that you care about, overall C-USA still has better numbers than the MAC (although some of their newer additions don't draw all that well). Fact is that you're correct in that most non-BCS programs don't draw all that well unless they are winning....same is true in both conferences.

But many a MAC fan here predicted that Herd fans were "all wet" in terms of expecting hordes of C-USA fans to show up in H-Ton this year......hasn't happened with UAB and SMU, and with the exception of maybe ECU, ain't gonna happen.

I drove down to the Miami/Akron game. There is no way in h*** that there were anywhere near 19K there. They'd better watch it. That's a huge stretch. Their students were even on break I was told.

bigbear:

It appears that you were correct in your assessment of the Miami/Akron crowd.
The MAC site lists the crowd as 14,132. One would assume that the MAC site gets their info
from the home team?

14,000 sounds about right, looking at the stadium...

As for Akron. CHEATERS NEVER WIN! I warned your team! I yelled it to them! Instead they played dirty ball. And got smashed into the ground. 51-23 :wave:

Hope you had a good drive back! (And thanks for bringing your band. Next time leave the flip folders at home. )

Quote:And thanks for bringing your band. Next time leave the flip folders at home.   

I know we are not officially in yet, but you can add 23K for the Temple -Miami FLA game. It was Homecoming for TU.

Most students were gone at Miami for a short fall break.....the actual attendance reported on the Miami site was 14.3K....sounds about right.

Huntington Terd Fans B!tched about Kent.

<a href='http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/confusa/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30537' target='_blank'>http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/confusa/invi...ST&f=22&t=30537</a>

SMUmustangs Posted: Oct 16 2005, 04:43 PM

There seems to be some disagreement on the attendance at some of the games this weekend. A point of clarification---published figures are usually ticket sales and not actual attendance.

The actual attendance at the SMU game was a lot less than the 11,000 ticket sales. Things are going to have to change in Pony land

Vandy Dandy, its good to see you step out from behind your observer status and show your self to be the true mac homer you I knew you were.

Sure you catered to the mac crowd, but you always seemed above the frey. I knew better, you are a bitter as the rest.

Nick may be showing some bias here, Herdproud, but I don't see how you can justly categorize it as bitterness. Fact is that Herdies always derided other MAC programs for its lack of home attendance, lack of bowl traveling and away traveling fans. Many of your posters continually reminded us of how much better Marshall's home attendance was (and it is outside of maybe NIU and UT's), and how they always traveled better to bowl games (but took less than 1,000 fans to Fort Worth), how season tix would increase in C-USA (didn't happen), and how C-USA fans "traveled" and would come to H-Ton (with SMU and UAB, sure hasn't happened, and in fact it's likely that even lowly MAC schools routinely took more fans over to H-ton than these two C-USA programs). So, pointing out some of these is probably "fair play".

Marshall has a strong fan base for a non-BCS school, no doubt about it.......but many of the things that have been predicted during the "great debate" about C-USA have simply been overstatements of fact.

FYI, for the NCAA attendance guidelines, schools are REQUIRED to report actual attendance. So, if many MAC schools are doing tickets sold--THEY ARE CHEATING!

I know that at Ohio the number is simply who showed up to the game not how many tickets got sold. Every ticket has a barcode that is scanned when you pass through the turnstiles and the collective amount from all the scanners is the attendance...a relatively simple system that should be used by more if we are going for "honest" attendance figures. If anything, there is a complaint among Ohio fans that the attendance always seems lower than it looks (last game had 17,000 but looked more like 20,000 to "veteran" fans). This probably results from students who get in free not having their tickets counted.

HERD PROUD Wrote:Unintentionally ironic nonsense omitted.

BobcatsFan Wrote:FYI, for the NCAA attendance guidelines, schools are REQUIRED to report actual attendance.  So, if many MAC schools are doing tickets sold--THEY ARE CHEATING!

I know that at Ohio the number is simply who showed up to the game not how many tickets got sold.  Every ticket has a barcode that is scanned when you pass through the turnstiles and the collective amount from all the scanners is the attendance...a relatively simple system that should be used by more if we are going for "honest" attendance figures.  If anything, there is a complaint among Ohio fans that the attendance always seems lower than it looks (last game had 17,000 but looked more like 20,000 to "veteran" fans).  This probably results from students who get in free not having their tickets counted.

Museum curator: "But that was a priceless Ming vase!"

Inspector Clousseau: "Not any more."

Same with the attendance rules.

<a href='http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/association_news/ncaa_news_online/2005/05_09_05/division_i/4210n18.html' target='_blank'>Welcome to five months ago!</a>

BTW, every fan base in the country has thought for the last couple of years that their "real" attendance was higher than the announced. Two likely reasons: (1) they've been used to hearing inflated numbers for years and haven't adjusted their eyeball estmates, and (2) Americans are getting fatter and fatter over time, so the same number of people take up more space in the stands. To restate DG's simple attendance rule of thumb: If your asscheeks aren't touching those of the people on either side of you, it's not a sell out -- no matter how full the stadium looks.

For those of you too lazy to look up the link, like our factually challenged feline friend, here's the relevant passage, straight from the NCAA...

Quote:The legislation allows institutions to demonstrate over a rolling two-year period either an average minimum actual attendance of 15,000 for all home football games, or at least one season in which the institution averages a minimum of 15,000 in paid attendance for home games.

The measure provides breathing room for some long-standing Division I-A institutions some people thought were disadvantaged by an attendance criterion in place last year. Those standards required institutions to average at least 15,000 in actual attendance per year. Board members believe the new recommendation still requires institutions to develop their fan bases, which presidents feel is a worthwhile criterion, but it helps those who consider actual attendance to be outside the control of an institution (due to inclement weather, for example) by providing the opportunity to comply through paid attendance once every two years.

In short, the attendance rule is dead. Done. Finished. Finito. Buried Six Feet Deep. Let's move the hell on already.

Given this reality, there's no earthly reason to continue to have five different attendance threads every week. No one, and I mean *no freaking one* is getting bounced from 1-A due to poor attendance (no matter how bad Kent or EMU's boxscore was last week). Ain't happening. Won't happen. Get it through your damn skulls already.

Sheesh.

Papa Lou BSU Wrote:In short, the attendance rule is dead. Done. Finished. Finito. Buried Six Feet Deep. Let's move the hell on already.

Given this reality, there's no earthly reason to continue to have five different attendance threads every week. No one, and I mean *no freaking one* is getting bounced from 1-A due to poor attendance (no matter how bad Kent or EMU's boxscore was last week). Ain't happening. Won't happen. Get it through your damn skulls already.

Sheesh.

It's still quite relevant in regards to the MAC's overall credibility as a football conference. TV and recruits care quite a bit about it. Would you rather play in front of (or watch a game in front of) 60,000 screaming fans, or 14,000 disengaged fans?

I've been to several MAC venues and several Big 10 venues. There is no comparision. And most of that has to due with attendance. Until the MAC can draw 30-35K per game, it's status as a legitimate (not official, but legitimate) D-1A conference is questionable.