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Take a look at the address below and comment. <a href="http://www.vandelaysports.com/news/2002_07_08.htm" target="_blank">Conference Rankings & Attendance Data</a>

Good stuff, Nick. I don't understand ranking "attendance as percentage of capacity." Is it a good thing to to have inadequate facilities? Or were you merely using the only available measure of attendance that Kent is not last in?

Actually, I think that part was a call to the local fire marshalls in Toledo..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

I'll post the same thing I posted on our board ...

The Big East does well in OOC. It seems like the BE is the MAC of the BCS schools. They don't get any respect even though they beat the other conferences (check their bowl record the past 2 years) and the best team in the country plays in their conference.

No way in HELL MWC is better than the Big East.

I'd be happy to see those numbers keep going up. In spite of the spill-over, I've never felt crowded at the Glass Bowl...certainly not like being shoe-horned into Ohio Stadium in Columbus. That was the most uncomfortable 3 1/2 hours I've ever spent. Anyway, continued sell-outs, along with reasonable ticket price increases, could cause stadium expansion, and I think we'd all agree that would be a good thing. We're still in a phase where winning is so important to attendance, and the caliber of opponent even moreso. I don't see a lot of quality OOC opponents slated for the next few years in the Glass Bowl, and that concerns me a little.

Yeah, NIU desperately needs a title-type of season for attendance. We do have some attractive opponents coming to town in the next couple years - Wake this year, Maryland and Iowa State next, and we've had Kansas State and Vandy in DeKalb.

I always get a large chuckle out of people who bash the Big East.

Their champion won the national title last year. Chumps.

They were 3-1 in bowl games last year.
Chumps.

They were 3-1 in bowl games in 2000. Chumps.

I would take the Big East over the ACC ANY DAY.

Big East has Rutgers, ACC has Duke
Big Eat has Temple, ACC has Wake

Big East has Miami and Virginia Teach

ACC has Florida State

Don't go selling me Maryland as some juggernaut after one winning season. They won the ACC, yee haw. FSU was down, and there is nobody else.

Mountain West. That is a friggin joke. Top to bottom, they would go winless against the Big East.

^^ Do you think that's because most people correlate on the field success with attendance and how well you travel? Their record should speak for itself. I don't care if they have low attendance compared to the other "Big 6" conferences or they don't travel well. Wins and losses are what counts.

In the past 3 years the Big East had 2 different teams play in the National Championship game.

Big East=Overrated

So they're 3-1, 4-1 in bowl games, big deal. Look at who they are playing in these bowls games. In the majority of the bowl games, the Big East team is playing a lesser team from another BCS conference. When the Big East plays and beats teams of EQUAL standing from these other BCS conferences, then I'll give them some respect. Miami is the exception, beyond the Canes the BigEast is woefully below par in comparison to the other BCS conferences (with perhaps the ACC as the lone exception).

hmmmmmmmm

2001:

Boston College (8-4) 20
Georgia (8-4) 16

Pittsburgh (7-5) 34
N. C. State (7-5) 19

Syracuse (10-3) 26,
Kansas State (6-6) 3

Ok that was a mismatch, but Cuse did what they were suppose to do -- POUND them.

Florida State (8-4) 30,
Virginia Tech (8-4) 17

2000:

Boston College (7-5) 31,
Arizona State (6-6) 17

Iowa State (9-3) 37,
Pittsburgh (7-5) 29

West Virginia (7-5) 49,
Mississippi (7-5) 38

Virginia Tech (11-1) 41,
Clemson (9-3) 20

My biggie is the Pac-10.

They were slaughtered in bowl games.

The top 10 BCS team that is Stanford couldn't even beat one of the most underachieving Georgia Tech teams in history. They had a new head coach, loads of uncertainty, and the lowest morale of possibly any team in the nation after losing 5 on what many claimed to be "their year."

The Pac-10 won ... what... 1 bowl game out of 5 or 6 bids?

Utah 10
USC 6
That's just sad.

Georgia Tech 24
#11 Stanford 14
Nobody should have lost to GT, especially a Top 10 BCS team.

#9 Texas 47
#20 Washington 43
Simms is incredibly overrated. Washington had their chance early but let it slip.

#13 Washington State 33
Purdue 27
A win, but not as comfy as it should have been.

#2 Oregon 38
#3 Colorado 16
Easy win - better team.

Pac-10's record: 2-3. A 1-4 mark wasn't far off if Purdue could have held their lead.

[ July 09, 2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: georgia_tech_swagger ]

PAC - 10

Oregon beat Colorado badly in the Fiesta Bowl and proved they should have played Miami for the national title. Here at work, I do not have any other bowl data at hand, but the PAC 10 is a solid conference again.

The Big (L)East

As for the Big East, I don't doubt the talent of Miami & Virginia Tech. On the bottom, Temple and Rutgers are two of the five poorest programs in 1A football. That's 25% of the league people.

Then look at over-rated teams like Pitt (lost to South Florida and has only beaten one top 10 team (VT) in the last decade), Syracuse (finally had double digit wins after three years of lower than expected seasons), Boston College (plays one of the easiest OOC schedules year in and year out to pad their record), and West Virginia (refuses to play Marshall since they cannot beat them and has struggled recently with the likes of Idaho, Ohio & Temple). Yeah, this is a real good league!

Let's take a closer look at the Big East's bowl record over the past (2) seasons...

2001
BigEast#1 Miami,Fla
WON in the RoseBowl vs
BigXII#3 Nebraska
-Again, nobody is questioning the Canes ability to compete with elite BCS teams..they are the exception to an otherwise pathetic conference.

BigEast#2 Syracuse
WON in the Insight.comBowl vs
BigXII#7 Kansas State
-Hmmm, the conferences runner-up demolished the 7th best team from the BigXII...wow, that is impressive!

BigEast#3 Virginia Tech
LOST in the GatorBowl vs
ACC#2 Florida State
-Finally the BigEast plays an team of EQUAL standing from another BCS conference and look what happens.

BigEast#4 Boston College
WON in the MusicCityBowl vs
SEC#5 Georgia
-BC squeaked out win against the Bulldogs, probably the closest the BE came to beating a team of semi-equal standing in another conference.

BigEast#5 Pittsburgh
WON in the TangerineBowl vs
ACC#6 NC State
-The Wolfpack ALMOST were in the top half of the second weakest BCS conference in the country...very impressive.

2001 Bowl Recap..the BigEast was 4-1, with 0 wins against teams of equal or better standing in other BCS conferences.

2000
BigEast#1 Miami
WON in the SugarBowl vs
SEC#1 Florida
-The Canes are indeed legit.

BigEast#2 Virginia Tech
WON in the GatorBowl vs
ACC#2 Clemson
-Good win for the Hokies against a team of EQUAL standing...even a blind squirrell finds a nut I guess.

BigEast#3 Pittsburgh
LOST in the Insight.comBowl vs
BigXII#5 Iowa State
-So the 3rd best team in the Big East loses to the 5th best team in the Big XII...seems about right.

BigEast#4t W.Virginia
WON in the MusicCityBowl vs
SEC#8 Ole Miss
-Are you kidding a win versus the #8 team in the conference...boy they sure made a statement here.

BigEast#4t BostonCollege
WON in the AlohaBowl vs
PacTen#5t Arizona State
-A win over a .500 SunDevil squad sure did not change my perception of the BigLeast.

2000 Bowl Recap...the Big East was 4-1 again, with (2) wins against teams of EQUAL standing in another BCS conference (one of which was Miami, who is obviously the exception).

SO...I'll say again, when the BigEast beats teams of EQUAL standing, then I'll believe the hype. Outside of Miami, I could count on one hand the quality OOC wins they've had against BCS teams, and probably count twice as many losses they've had against lesser competition (i.e. S.Florida).

Vandelay,

What makes this extra funny is that you're saying the MAC is ranked just below them (look at our bottom-feeders). You got to be kidding me. So what if Pitt lost to South Florida when they were struggling. They rebounded and beat an NC State team that beat FSU at home. A conference that has BYU as one of their headliners (struggled to beat a sad Mississippi State team) can not possibly be better than the Big East. I'm all for respecting us "mid-majors", but go ahead with that bull****.

and fatmanjim,

When the Big East #3 plays the ACC #2 you call it equal, but when the Big East #4 plays the ACC #5 it's not equal or it's semi-equal when the SEC #5 plays the Big East #4. Better yet, when the Big East Champ plays Nebraska (a team that the BCS selected) it's not equal. What's it gonna be? It's not Miami's fault that they had to play Nebraska in the NC. They would have spanked who ever they played. Your comment about the BC/ASU game in 2000 stuck out so I'll comment. I see you're struggling with simple math. ASU and BC came into that bowl game with the SAME 6-5 record, losing to BC is what made ASU a .500 team. If the conference is so pathetic then all those superior conferences should be ashamed to lose to the non-Miami teams.

Of course the SEC and Big 12 are better conferences, who's arguing about that? But, I would rank the BE above the PAC 10, ACC AND DEFINITELY the MWC.

I dunno, maybe it's because WVU is in the BE, but ya'll need to lay off the acid or something.

KnightProwler,
I don't think our perception of the BigEast is all that much different. We both agree that the SEC and BigXII are better and that the BE is AS good as the ACC and BigTen, although the BigTen has been down the past couple of years and I would expect in most years that they'd outperform the BigEast. I do think the PacTen is noticeably better than the BigEast, they had 2 teams ranked in the top10 and 4 in the top25, both more than the BigEast AND their "mid-to-bottom" feeders are certainly better than Rutgers, Temple and WVU.
I have a problem with folks throwing out the BigEast's perceived impressive bowl record as a basis for an argument that they are on par with the other conferences, which is why I posted my earlier analysis. Their bowl record is decidedly skewed by playing teams of lesser standing in other BCS conferences, meaning their bowl record is inflated and overexaggerated. IMO, the BCS pecking order has the SEC and BigXII, clearly on top of the heap, followed by the PacTen and BigTen in most years with the ACC and BigEast bringing up the rear.
And now back to the acid... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

Despite the Big Least having its best season in ... forever... the Big East is definately not on the same level as the ACC.

The Big East is Virginia Tech, Miami, and whoever gets the most of the leftovers. Last year they just happened to field 3 other teams were above average. Every conf. has their good years. However, for the Big East to get placed above or even equal to the ACC in my book, they need to put up more than 3 quality teams with consistency.

While the Big East did manage to put up 4 Top 25 teams and another bowl eligible team in Pitt, the ACC ended with with 7 of their 9 teams being bowl eligible. Duke is Duke, but the other non-bowl eligible team was even respectable. The Hoos punked good ole Joe Pa. and sent him packing.

ACC - 7 bowl eligible teams - 9 total teams
78% of the teams bowl eligible

Big East - 5 bowl eligible teams - 8 total teams
63% of the teams bowl eligible

So, mind you, in a somewhat down year for the ACC and a very up year for the Big East - the average ACC team was still better than the average Big East team.

IMHO, I'd draw it up something like this as far as the BCS conferences:

1) SEC
2) Big 12
3) Big 10
4) ACC
5) Pac-10
6) Big East

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"Academics and ethics are always in question with this league and not a high priority..."<hr /></blockquote>Wow! As a former faculty member at an SEC school, it's interesting to know that someone from Toledo, Ohio knows I don't prioritize integrity and ethics in my work.

That statement was stupid and uncalled for. Let's paint the entire MAC with the Kent State, Buffalo and Eastern Michigan brush. You have really offended me and my sense of professionalism. And if Patrick Dunn, who also works at an SEC school ever sees this...he'll rip you a new *******.

Knock it off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad-flaming.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GreenSteve:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />"Academics and ethics are always in question with this league and not a high priority..."<hr /></blockquote>Wow! As a former faculty member at an SEC school, it's interesting to know that someone from Toledo, Ohio knows I don't prioritize integrity and ethics in my work.

That statement was stupid and uncalled for. Let's paint the entire MAC with the Kent State, Buffalo and Eastern Michigan brush. You have really offended me and my sense of professionalism. And if Patrick Dunn, who also works at an SEC school ever sees this...he'll rip you a new *******.

Knock it off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad-flaming.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>LOFL! How do you ever get the crap off of your ears when you pull that big, empty head out of your @ss?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />LOFL! How do you ever get the crap off of your ears when you pull that big, empty head out of your @ss?<hr /></blockquote>What he might mean is that his previous comment wasn't a shot at SEC academics. It was a shot at the SEC's propensity to get into hot water with the NCAA.

I'll stipulate that Northern schools aren't immune. I'm aware of Minnesota. Still, this was quite an off season for the SEC, eh?

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Vandelay

Road Warrior

HuskieDan

Knight Prowler

Karl

HuskieDan

Herd Swimming

Knight Prowler

fatmanjim

Knight Prowler

georgia_tech_swagger

georgia_tech_swagger

Vandelay

fatmanjim

Knight Prowler

fatmanjim

georgia_tech_swagger

GreenSteve

Guest

RochesterFalcon