A new idea for MAC expansion hit me over the head! <img border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" title="" src="graemlins/banghead.gif" />
Why not expand the MAC to 18 schools and split into 3 divisions? Then in Football, the two best division winners could square off for the championship game.
MAC East
1.Buffalo
2.Akron
3.Miami
4.Kent
5.Ohio
6.BG
MAC West
1.Toledo
2.EMU
3.CMU
4.WMU
5.NIU
6.Ballst
MAC South (assuming the Herd go to CUSA)
1.UCF
2.MTSU
3.SMU
4.Rice
5.Tulsa
6.LaTech
That would give the MAC about the same amount of markets as CUSA. Make it easier to get a CUSA type TV deal for the MAC.
KC
Not a terrible plan unless you look at revenue sharing. The MAC gets very little TV money as it is. There are only two bowl tie-in's. Wouldn't you think that splitting the paltry amount of revenue is already too thin?
Most of the time we can't even get the two best teams matched up with 2 divisions, how do you propose that we do it with 3?
Lets say you have 3 division winners:
MAC East: Ohio 8-3
MAC West: Toledo 11-0
MAC South: UCF 6-5
Then the two best divisional winners square off for the championship game. Its better than what happened in 2000 with The Herd getting a MACC slot at 6-5. All MAC games will count toward the standings, so the odds of not having at least 2 eight game winners or better for the MACC game will be rare.
As for the revenue sharing, I think the MAC would get that Ft.Worth Bowl to itself if it had 3 divisions, maybe even the liberty bowl. Adding Tulsa, and La.Tech would be good for getting more NCAA tourney money. So I think a bigger 3 division MAC would make at least as much money proportionately as the current 2 division MAC.
KC
I'd hate to see the MAC, long a well-respected conference with a good tradition despite being just a bit off the national radar, make a knee-jerk decision to expand just to try anything to get on that radar. We don't need to be CUSA just to be taken seriously. Adding NIU (Chicago), Buffalo (uh, Buffalo) and Marshall were easy decisions to make - two of them were in the MAC at one point, and Buffalo is a regional entity in a big market. UCF is a bit odd, but helps the MAC in many ways- market, recruiting, exposure, evens out the divisions. Going beyond that, IMO, would be simply to try to force volume on the nation in an attempt to get noticed, and I don't buy that as a good way to go. Continue winning games we aren't expected to win against large conference teams.
What he said.
Besides, I'm not sure why schools would bail from the WAC for the MAC.
This only starts to fit together as a possibility if the Sun Belt implodes, leaving one or two schools in need of a home. At that point, maybe we make a run at Louisiana Tech or Tulsa or something.
But I'm with Husky. Short of a can't miss opportunity (grabbing Temple or Navy), I say keep it at 14.
From a UCF standpoint the southern division is worse than the current MAC east for road games. At least where we are allows us decent flights to popular destinations (read lower fares). The southern conference as you have it doesn't allow any road trips we can drive to, and the cost to fly to most of those sites is higher than what we have.
Tulsa has already talked to the MAC about joining. They want to be in a Midwest based conference. Same with SMU, and probably Rice. MTSU would die to be in the MAC. The WAC stinks. Travel times are outrageous.
With 18 schools, the MAC will be able to offer more conference sports than ever before. SMU would like that, they are a regular in the Sears cup top 50 athletic programs. If Fresno, and Hawaii leave for the MWC, the WAC will be a small, very weak all-sports league.
Plus bulking up will help keep the MAC in 1-A.
Tulsa has talked to the MAC? Since when?
They still owe us a home game from 1990. Cheap jerks.
Tulsa talked to the MAC about joining soon after the WAC/MWC split 3 years ago. They identify with the Midwest academically and want no part of the WAC. The school is just an hour or so from Missouri.
There are a couple of hang ups with Tulsa joining right now. One is their faint glimmer of hope that CUSA will add them. Another is the MAC so-so interest. Afterall, Tulsa is just a private school, and doesn't exactly excell in FB attendance.
Another school that wants in the MAC is UMass for FB only. Its just not worth adding UMass unless its for all-sports and with Temple joining too.
The school Chryst himself approached for membership was IlliniosSt. They have a strong following in BB that would be second to OU, and they are another bite out of the big Illinios market. When NIU has IlliniosSt at home its a good draw. Illst wants to stay in the MVC though, because its a better conference in BB than the MAC.
NAVY almost joined the MAC 4 years back. The sticking point was revenue sharing, which NAVY refused to split evenly with the rest of the MAC.
KC
I like the idea of expanding and going to three divisions. I was just looking at last years NCAA atendance figures for D1-A football and figured out a better way to do the divisions instead of adding a south division, or at least one that would keep the current MAC in tact. Looking at the numbers I figure we could lose between 3 and 7 teams. The SBC stands to lose 3-6 teams and the WAC 1 (SJSU). If Hawaii and Fresno bolt for the MWC that would leave a weak 7 team conference. So how about possibly adding a 1-AA division to the conference that would baically share office space with the "real" MAC and would give failing teams a place to go in trouble, as well as teams that do meet the criteria after years of not doing it a place to step up to.
MAC Mid-West
1. WMU
2. CMU
3. Ball St.
4. Toledo
5. Bowling Green #
6. Ohio **
7. Miami #
MAC South-East
1. Marshall **
2. UCF
3. Middle Tennessee St (From SBC)#
4. Tulsa (From WAC)
5. Rice (From WAC)
6. SMU (From WAC)
7. La. Tech. (From WAC)
MAC 1-AA
1. EMU
2. Akron
3. Kent
4. Buffalo
5. NIU #
# Border teams which have had below 15,500 either of the last two seasons.
* the 1-AA divsion as listed has had less than 15,000 both of the last two seasons
** divisional border teams who would get a protected rivalry (since teams coming from 1-AA or dropping down may cause frequent division realignment) provided neither team drops down to 1-AA
For non-FB sports the divisions could be reconfigured int the east, west and south by leaving the south untouched (maybe get UCF to consider all sports membership by guaranteeing so many divisional contests and a limited number of cross divisional games), then go to the current system and put BGSU back in the east. If UCF remained as a FB only member or Marshall went C-USA that would give us three 6 team divisions in other sports. With this we would have to get at least three bowl games and somehow guarantee the Divisional champion that doesn't play in the MACC one of these providing the qualify. With any luck the D-1AA division would cease to exist after a few years anyway.
<small>[ June 14, 2002, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: klordway ]</small>
Instead of a 3 divisional format, I suggest the following:
A new conference emerges with the following:
Division A
Toledo
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Central Michigan
Bowling Green
Miami
Ohio
Division B
Marshall
UCF
Middle Tennessee State
Louisiana Tech
Troy State
Army
Navy
This would feature big rivalries - Toledo/BG, WMU/CMU, Army/Navy, Marshall/UCF (will develop into one). Army and Navy may not be strong on the field, but they have decent attendance and national attention. The strong presence in the southern areas will add TV markets. I can definitely see a conference like this getting 3 or 4 bowl tie-ins if they play their cards right.
<img border="0" alt="[Cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/cheers.gif" />
<small>[ June 15, 2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: rocketfootball ]</small>
None of this is feasable at all. Tulsa to the MAC? Do you hear what you're saying? Kit Cat claims that all of the schools are/were interested in joining our conference. Rrrrright. There is absolutely no way that Middle Tennesse, Illinois St, Western Kentucky, Rice, ect. get in. As it is we should kick a few programs out -- we don't need to water down the conference any more than it already is. We are just now coming around from the additions of Northern and Buffalo.
Just ask the WAC about expansion -- it blew up in their face a few years ago. Come on, who wants to make the trip from Tulsa to Buffalo? I'm still not a big fan of UCF joining the ranks (yes, I know that they are a pretty respectable program FB wise. And I know that they deliver us a big market). If we add another school from outside the region, look for chaos to follow. It just won't happen guys. Where Kit Kat gets his "info" from is beyond me.
I don't think those teams are feasible for the MAC either. Notice I said a new conference emerges.
It is summer, and things are slow so I threw something up there that would be nice. That being said, it probably will not happen.
On the other hand. Let's face it, if the lower attendance teams in the MAC don't step it up, the MAC will lose momentum and be a 9 or 10 team conference again. Marshall will definitely leave if that happens, if they haven't already. Chryst is got to find a way to get fans interested in the EMU's, Akron's, Ball State's, Kent's, and Buffalo's of the conference. If he doesn't they will lose I-A status in a couple of years. At that point, the MAC will either go back 10 steps or they will be forced to do a major overhaul.
Whether you want to believe it or not, that's life.
<small>[ June 15, 2002, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: rocketfootball ]</small>
I agree with the point we have to remain a div 1-A conference. The MAC is on the border line. The media will throw that crap in our face every year if we don't get better attendance with all our members. We need to look at adding maybe Temple(only if they want all-sports), La. Tech, Troy State, MTSU, and maybe ask Navy. Take those and the best from the MAC and we have a pretty good conference.
I agree with the point we have to remain a div 1-A conference. The MAC is on the border line. The media will throw that crap in our face every year if we don't get better attendance with all our members. We need to look at adding maybe Temple(only if they want all-sports), La. Tech, Troy State, MTSU, and maybe ask Navy. Take those and the best from the MAC and we have a pretty good conference.
Personally, I think the 3 division format is insane - and would dilute any respect any of the teams might get from the media - (read as "bowl invites"). It would be just too hard for the media to figure out which 3-6 teams would emerge as division contenders in order to start highlighting them before it was all over.
Besides, the best team from div A would most likely not have played contenders from division B or C - so there would be no way to determine who actually played their way into the one MACC game.
I do see some merit in forming a I-AA conference - though the NCAA would probably frown on calling it MAC I-AA. There are other I-AA teams they could add (Butler, Dayton etc) or the I-AA MAC teams could join up with the Gateway Conference in I-AA FB. Maybe even forming a I-AA FB conference with the I-AA FB teams from the new SWC conference listed below....
More economical - and feasible than a 3 division format would be to arrange a MAC champ vs WAC champions game in the new Ft. Worth Bowl in 2003 and beyond. The MWC and C-USA have the same type of arrangement in the Liberty - and that really makes it the premiere non-BCS Bowl game. Playing C-USA #2, MWC #2 or WAC #2 in bowls isn't the same as playing their champ - at least to casual fans and the media.
It works even better if the WAC-east ends up breaking with the rest of the WAC (absorbing SBC and independent teams)- making it easier to sell their end of the bowl game (no Hawaii or California teams coming to Ft. Worth).
The way I could see it:
==================================================
MAC (I-A):
--------------------------------------------------
Marshall, Ohio, Miami(OH), Toledo, BGSU, BallSt, CMU, WMU, No.Ill, UCF (if they can add Temple and Navy for FB-only, then they can have a 12 team/2 divisions with MACC game conference)
the new SWC:
--------------------------------------------------
SMU, Rice, Tulsa, La-Tech, MTSU, TroySt, La-Laf, UNT - maybe USU and NMSU too
MAC/new SWC I-AA:
--------------------------------------------------
MAC (I-AA): Buffalo, Akron, KentSt, EMU
new SWC I-AA: WKU, FIU (or FAU?), ArkSt, La-Mon
I-A Bowls:
--------------------------------------------------
MAC:
CowTown: MAC #1 vs SWC #1
MotorCity: MAC #2 or #3 vs Big11 #7
GMAC: MAC #2 or #3 vs C-USA #2, #3 or #4
new SWC:
CowTown: SWC #1 vs MAC #1
SVCB: SWC #2 or #3 vs WAC #2 or #3
New Orleans: SWC #2 or #3 vs C-USA #2, #3 or #4
What WAC-west would look like:
--------------------------------------------------
Hawaii, FSU, SJSU, Nevada, BoiseSt, UTEP, Idaho, USU - and maybe NMSU
Bowls:
Hawaii: WAC #1 vs C-USA #2, #3, or #4
SVCB: WAC #2 or #3 vs SWC #2 or #3
H-Bowl: WAC #2 or #3 vs MWC #3 or #4
If you guys do that, there will be no WAC left. Hawaii and Fresno St. want to move to the Mountain West.
That'd leave... what.. 2... 3 teams left? Not much of a conference.
The MWC does not want Hawaii. That is one of the main reasons they left the WAC and formed the new conference. Fresno State is a possibility in the future though.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by georgia_tech_swagger:
If you guys do that, there will be no WAC left. Hawaii and Fresno St. want to move to the Mountain West.
That'd leave... what.. 2... 3 teams left? Not much of a conference.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's why I included USU and possibly NMSU. I know UTEP is dead set against NMSU - but if it meant having a conference or not - they'ld bend.
I agree with rocketfootball - Hawaii isn't going anywhwere - and the expansion of the MWC (if any) is probably limited to Fresno State.
That leaves in the west (west of ElPaso):Hawaii, FSU, SJSU, Nevada, BoiseSt, UTEP, Idaho, USU - and maybe NMSU = 9 teams (maximum)
The key is they can't afford to lose SJSU to attendence issues AND lose FSU to the MWC.
Of course, the inability of the WAC to rebuild in the west won't keep the east from moving to greener pastures in the Southeast/Delta area.