11-15-2002, 04:33 PM
Pages: 1 2
11-15-2002, 05:22 PM
Why is it that Marshall seems to have more idiot fans than most schools? Two quotes from the above article about Marshall fans help prove it once again:
"At Akron's game last year, we were flipped off by the student section the entire game, even though they were winning the entire game," she said. "Before the game and after, we were harassed by Marshall fans. It was the worst experience we've had in four years of traveling to games. Nothing can prepare you for the wrath of Marshall fans."
[i]"During the game, I saw the biggest wad of tobacco ever spit land on Miami fans. I watched their fans grab posters from our kids, rip
"At Akron's game last year, we were flipped off by the student section the entire game, even though they were winning the entire game," she said. "Before the game and after, we were harassed by Marshall fans. It was the worst experience we've had in four years of traveling to games. Nothing can prepare you for the wrath of Marshall fans."
[i]"During the game, I saw the biggest wad of tobacco ever spit land on Miami fans. I watched their fans grab posters from our kids, rip
11-15-2002, 07:13 PM
[quote="rocketfootball"]
[i]"During the game, I saw the biggest wad of tobacco ever spit land on Miami fans. I watched their fans grab posters from our kids, rip
[i]"During the game, I saw the biggest wad of tobacco ever spit land on Miami fans. I watched their fans grab posters from our kids, rip
11-15-2002, 09:07 PM
Looks like Miami's press supporters are going full tilt in an attempt to divert the blame of Miami coaches tearing up the press box and punching fans.
We've all seen the negative posts on how "I was treated in: KZoo, Toledo, Miami. Bla, bla, bla...." that story could have been written about any school. Chuckie and the old man could get a full page story with that kind of crap out tommorow if they wanted. Simply ask Herd fans to send in their tales of woe at away games.
"It was them hillbillies - they caused our boys to rip up the press box and smack that man around!!"
At any rate, I bet if Wauford hadn't ripped up the press box and punched the fan, the other fight wouldn't have happened either. However, we all realize that slapping some hilljack from WV isn't really considered a crime in Ohio. Unfortunately, Wauford apparently forget which side of the river he was on. Additionally, talk about screwing up. He knocked the guy down in front of WV State Police and ESPN Cameras, and the "victim" is an attorney!?! Asking Flaughner not to sue would be like asking one of us not to blink.
Realistically, I hope there is no law suit.
As a stated on another board the great contest between two fine teams of college athletes now merely serves as a platter for this humongous blackeye. It would be best if the two schools could sit down and work this out. However, Hoeppner has decided to utilize ESPN as his mediation tool. His claiming that messageboard banter was somehow responsible for the actions of his staff was ridiculous. Even more ridiculous was the press in its zeal to somehow get the story out about "out-of-control fans", especially after the incident that happened in Chicago this summer, as usual didn't let the facts get in the way of their story. Therefore, the Marshall fan is getting painted as some 36-year-old moron that was heckling the Miami team with no real proof that was indeed the case. BUT the guy getting wheeled out on a stretcher is a cold hard fact. The vandalized press box is a cold, hard fact. Seems a connection between the coach smashing the pressbox walls, chairs, and tables and then going down on the field and smacking around a herd fan is just too difficult for the press to make? You do the math. The herd fan had to supply some provocation I suppose.? Well, I guess the walls, tables and chairs spat on those coaches before they were smashed.
Unfortunately the media has elected to ignore the facts and go with conjecture because it suits their stories.
We've all seen the negative posts on how "I was treated in: KZoo, Toledo, Miami. Bla, bla, bla...." that story could have been written about any school. Chuckie and the old man could get a full page story with that kind of crap out tommorow if they wanted. Simply ask Herd fans to send in their tales of woe at away games.
"It was them hillbillies - they caused our boys to rip up the press box and smack that man around!!"
At any rate, I bet if Wauford hadn't ripped up the press box and punched the fan, the other fight wouldn't have happened either. However, we all realize that slapping some hilljack from WV isn't really considered a crime in Ohio. Unfortunately, Wauford apparently forget which side of the river he was on. Additionally, talk about screwing up. He knocked the guy down in front of WV State Police and ESPN Cameras, and the "victim" is an attorney!?! Asking Flaughner not to sue would be like asking one of us not to blink.
Realistically, I hope there is no law suit.
As a stated on another board the great contest between two fine teams of college athletes now merely serves as a platter for this humongous blackeye. It would be best if the two schools could sit down and work this out. However, Hoeppner has decided to utilize ESPN as his mediation tool. His claiming that messageboard banter was somehow responsible for the actions of his staff was ridiculous. Even more ridiculous was the press in its zeal to somehow get the story out about "out-of-control fans", especially after the incident that happened in Chicago this summer, as usual didn't let the facts get in the way of their story. Therefore, the Marshall fan is getting painted as some 36-year-old moron that was heckling the Miami team with no real proof that was indeed the case. BUT the guy getting wheeled out on a stretcher is a cold hard fact. The vandalized press box is a cold, hard fact. Seems a connection between the coach smashing the pressbox walls, chairs, and tables and then going down on the field and smacking around a herd fan is just too difficult for the press to make? You do the math. The herd fan had to supply some provocation I suppose.? Well, I guess the walls, tables and chairs spat on those coaches before they were smashed.
Unfortunately the media has elected to ignore the facts and go with conjecture because it suits their stories.
11-15-2002, 10:57 PM
Quote:At any rate, I bet if Wauford hadn't ripped up the press box and punched the fan, the other fight wouldn't have happened either.
Um, speaking of getting the facts straight, perhaps you should as well. Not everything you read on Herd Message Boards is the Honest-to-God truth.
Wauford was on the sidelines the entire game. He did not, as I have seen repeated on the boards numerous times today, rip up the press box, storm down to the field, and knock out the first herd fan he could fine. There were two COMPLETELY SEPARATE incidents -- not that it makes either of them any better.
The press box incident was done by linebackers coach Taver Johnson, who normally sits in the box. Taver has accepted full responsibility and has been suspended from his coaching duties as the administration decides what his full punishment should be. It will probably be more than sitting out the Spring Football Game. In addition, Miami has said it would pay for any and all damages.
The on-field incident, obviously, was done by Wauford. If you would come over to MiamiHawkTalk.com and read the message boards there, you would see that the vast majority of Miami fans have a) condemned what he has done and B) have called for him to be appropriately disciplined. The administration has also suspended Wauford pending a full investigation of the incident, and odds are that he will most likely be looking for a new job soon.
Terry Hoeppner, as any head coach would, will obviously stand by his staff members during the investigation. Part of that is giving context to what transpired -- which is different from making excuses. If he were just making excuses, as the HerdNation has repeatedly alleged, would he have publicly said that the pressbox incident was inexcusable? He said that last night on his coach's show. Does that sound like an excuse?
As for the comments about the message boards threats, it may sound like something he pulled out of his ass after the fact. But the fact of the matter is that he had enough concern with the threads that he asked for and received permission to take two Miami University police officers with him to the game -- BEFORE the game and the post-game debacle. What makes this unique is that this was a first-time request. Miami has NEVER felt the need to take extra security with them to an opponent's field. Was it just the HerdNation comments that made him request that detail? Those who deride the whole message board comment issue seem flabbergasted that those comments were all it would take to make them fear for their safety. I tend to agree with them.
I think that those comments -- coupled with Miami's previous experiences in Huntington -- made him think twice about the safety of himself and his team. After all, Matt Robillard did say in a Florida newspaper back in the summer that two years ago, batteries were thrown at the Miami bench during the MUMU game. If the gameday experience in Marshall stadium is as intense as even Marshall fans say it is, and as hostile and intimidating as the Miami folks who have been there have said, I don't think it is that far of a stretch to think that that environment might yield a Monica Seles moment. And yes, for all they knew the message boards were a joke (although that was never expressly stated in at least one of the threads on HerdNation). But if something did happen as it was threatened on those boards, he would have been a lot of liability problems.
(To wit, nearly all bomb threats phoned in to schools are pranks. Because they rarely actually turn up bombs, should school administrators pay them no heed? And if they start to ignore them who gets sued by parents when a bomb goes off? I think you see where I am going with this...)
As I said before, I have not heard Hoeppner say that any of this excused Jon for his actions. I don't know that there is a Miami fan on MHT.com who thinks any of this excuses his action. All I have heard him say is that he thinks there is more to this story than has been seen, heard, or told. But in the meantime, Wauford is still suspended and still very much in danger of losing his job. Granted, none of this seems to be enough for Marshall fans who, in their glee to try to mock Miami in return for the grief they get every time their program gets a black eye, fail realize that what the Miami administration has done in this situation is already more than the Marshall administration has ever done with an in-season football player who has been caught breaking the law.
Finally, as for "press supporters" who are spinning everything to clear Miami's name, I think you overestimate Miami's influence in Southwest Ohio journalism. While we get our fair share of stringer and beat reports, the vast majority of columns that have been written -- including the one referenced in this thread by Tom Archdeacon in the Dayton Daily News and Paul Daugherty of the Cincinnati Enquirer -- have been written by columnists who do not cover Miami sports on a regular basis. That makes them infinitely different from Salvatore and Landon and Smock running a "spin" story in their respective papers in the Charleston-Huntington area. They are columnists, so they don't have to be even-handed, but since Daugherty and Archdeacon don't cover Miami regularly, they don't have a vested interest in this debate. Your insinuation that they are looking to just make Miami look good by asking an obvious question really gives the Miami trilateral press commission a lot more credit than they deserve. If they can get this kind of "good" press out of a bad incident, why don't they get a better representation from these columnists when they aren't in trouble?
And incidentally, do you think that Miami's press influence is that wide that columnists from Detroit to Dallas -- but not the greater Huntington-Charleston area -- are all picking up on the same theme?
11-15-2002, 11:46 PM
Well said, Steve.
11-16-2002, 01:00 AM
Nice post herdjinx.
11-16-2002, 01:05 AM
Quote:After all, Matt Robillard did say in a Florida newspaper back in the summer that two years ago, batteries were thrown at the Miami bench during the MUMU game.
He lied. Why would he make that up? Seriously. I've wondered about that ever since I read it this past summer. Why would Robillard fabricate a story like that?
I don't know why he would. But he did.
11-16-2002, 01:17 AM
Stick4489 Wrote:You seem pretty sure of this. What proof do you have? And by proof, I mean something other than a statement of "I have never seen anyone throw batteries at Marshall Stadium." Obviously YOU can't see everything at every moment of every game.Quote:After all, Matt Robillard did say in a Florida newspaper back in the summer that two years ago, batteries were thrown at the Miami bench during the MUMU game.
He lied. Why would he make that up? Seriously. I've wondered about that ever since I read it this past summer. Why would Robillard fabricate a story like that?
I don't know why he would. But he did.
Further, what does Robillard have to gain by lying to a Florida newspaper reporter about Marshall?
Just because you don't like what someone says doesn't automatically make them a liar. Most of us learn that by at least the fourth grade...
11-16-2002, 01:20 AM
Not according to the Odd one!!
11-16-2002, 01:29 AM
Glass houses and stones, my friend...
11-16-2002, 01:33 AM
Enough to go around!
11-16-2002, 02:45 AM
Actually, herdjinx, I believe it was Flaugher's brother that said that Flaugher was taunting Miami by waiving goodbye to them. Since this is only one side of the story, there's no way to tell for sure if this is ALL he was doing, but the assaulted side of the story admits to taunting the assaulter. That's not a Miami spin, that's a relative of the guy led off on a stretcher.
11-16-2002, 08:49 AM
Quote:You seem pretty sure of this. What proof do you have?
Players parents have said the same thing, as we saw in the Dayton Daily News story.
Enough people have said it happens where I believe it, even though I've never been to Huntington.
Guest
11-16-2002, 08:59 AM
I'm guessing that your jealousy of all things Herd makes you think that.
11-16-2002, 09:02 AM
Steve, I have been to hawktawk, and I do want to say that you guys haven't twisted this story. You've looked at the facts and realized that striking the person was wrong. End of story.
I totally support and agree with how Pruett has addressed this situation. First, by expressing empathy and then by calling Hoeppner to add his support. However, it was somewhat strange that after Pruett responded with empathy for the coaches, Hoeppner was on ESPN waving those messageboard posts. You say he wasn't using those as an "excuse". Well, call it what you want, the move was designed to divert attention from the actions of his coaching staff, and it worked.
And that does burn my ass a bit. Now, the Miami coaches, who were extremely wrong, have been excused by much of the press for their actions. Now, the storyline has turned to - "it was the fans." Well, college football fans have been streaming out of the stands (including in Oxford) for a long time - it's a pretty common occurance actually. Fortunately, fans getting assaulted by ex-defensive linemen is not as commonplace. But that somehow has gotten lost.
I may be hyper-sensitive, but if this event had occured the other way around (a Miami fan struck while celebrating in Oxford by a Marshall coach) the storyline of fan control probably wouldn't have surfaced. However, the crys for a MAC imposed punishment to Marshall would have been absolutely deafening! It's much easier to propogate the "hillbilly" "redneck" stereotype than it is to get the facts and run with it. And now, after two thoroughly and totally inexcusable actions of Miami coaches, the mantra appears to be "those rednecks."
Again, to the Miami faithful's credit - many, perhaps most, of the fans on "HawkTalk" aren't sherking responsibility on this issue.
HuskieDan, Attorney Flaughner has stated he was simply running to congratulate the team when he got cracked. No mention of the waving. Maybe his brother was waving? I don't know what happened. Hopefully, the police that saw the incident and made the arrest can shed some light on what acturally transpired.
I totally support and agree with how Pruett has addressed this situation. First, by expressing empathy and then by calling Hoeppner to add his support. However, it was somewhat strange that after Pruett responded with empathy for the coaches, Hoeppner was on ESPN waving those messageboard posts. You say he wasn't using those as an "excuse". Well, call it what you want, the move was designed to divert attention from the actions of his coaching staff, and it worked.
And that does burn my ass a bit. Now, the Miami coaches, who were extremely wrong, have been excused by much of the press for their actions. Now, the storyline has turned to - "it was the fans." Well, college football fans have been streaming out of the stands (including in Oxford) for a long time - it's a pretty common occurance actually. Fortunately, fans getting assaulted by ex-defensive linemen is not as commonplace. But that somehow has gotten lost.
I may be hyper-sensitive, but if this event had occured the other way around (a Miami fan struck while celebrating in Oxford by a Marshall coach) the storyline of fan control probably wouldn't have surfaced. However, the crys for a MAC imposed punishment to Marshall would have been absolutely deafening! It's much easier to propogate the "hillbilly" "redneck" stereotype than it is to get the facts and run with it. And now, after two thoroughly and totally inexcusable actions of Miami coaches, the mantra appears to be "those rednecks."
Again, to the Miami faithful's credit - many, perhaps most, of the fans on "HawkTalk" aren't sherking responsibility on this issue.
HuskieDan, Attorney Flaughner has stated he was simply running to congratulate the team when he got cracked. No mention of the waving. Maybe his brother was waving? I don't know what happened. Hopefully, the police that saw the incident and made the arrest can shed some light on what acturally transpired.
11-16-2002, 09:03 AM
Stick, I see you've had time to call a former Miami player a liar in a post I left on the Vine, but you still have yet to comment on what proof you have that this current Miami player is a liar. Hell, you didn't even say why the former player in that other post was a liar. Just called 'em a liar. Care to take a shot at presenting evidence, big guy? Or is that just your standard rhetorhical device for anyone who's not a Herd fan? You hate them and they're liars -- no need to prove anything.
You're pathetic. Hateful and pathetic.
cf. <a href='http://pub104.ezboard.com/ftheherdgrapevineherdfootball.showMessage?topicID=10627.topic&index=10' target='_blank'>http://pub104.ezboard.com/ftheherdgrapevin....topic&index=10</a>
You're pathetic. Hateful and pathetic.
cf. <a href='http://pub104.ezboard.com/ftheherdgrapevineherdfootball.showMessage?topicID=10627.topic&index=10' target='_blank'>http://pub104.ezboard.com/ftheherdgrapevin....topic&index=10</a>
Guest
11-16-2002, 09:19 AM
I think some folks have a very hard time differentiating between an isolated incident that is promptly (and probably harshly) dealt with and an ongoing pattern that never gets addressed.
11-16-2002, 10:02 AM
Steve,
It's really very simple.
I don't believe him. That's why I think he is a liar.
Now go be a hypocrite and tell me I lied about my experiences with MAC fans in the post I just made titled "MAC fans".
It's really very simple.
I don't believe him. That's why I think he is a liar.
Now go be a hypocrite and tell me I lied about my experiences with MAC fans in the post I just made titled "MAC fans".
11-16-2002, 10:22 AM
RF - I've read numerous accounts of fans treated poorly at Toledo. One Herd fan was actually mugged there. But I've been there and didn't have that experience - therefore, based on my experience, I'll return for games in Toledo.
I've read accounts of fans getting harrassed at Miami. But I've been there and didn't have that experience - therefore, based on my experience, I'll return for games in Oxford.
RF - unfortunately, the calls of bad fans comes from a few sources - yet they are continual and sometimes overwhelming. It's a shame you'll allow those few to color your opinion - especially when they write these articles at this time AFTER the event last Tuesday.
On the other hand, you probably never had any intention to travel to huntington anyway so.....
I've read accounts of fans getting harrassed at Miami. But I've been there and didn't have that experience - therefore, based on my experience, I'll return for games in Oxford.
RF - unfortunately, the calls of bad fans comes from a few sources - yet they are continual and sometimes overwhelming. It's a shame you'll allow those few to color your opinion - especially when they write these articles at this time AFTER the event last Tuesday.
On the other hand, you probably never had any intention to travel to huntington anyway so.....
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