I am not going to read the posts that will go back and forth from Toledo and Marshall fans about this game. With that being said.......
Congratulations to Marshall for winning the game and the MAC Championship.
It was a very exciting game and was a great game for the MAC to have on national television.
In know there will be gripes from Toledo fans and some have valid points. There were some questionable calls in this game, I am not even talking about the pass interference play. Whether Marshall fans want to admit it or not, the hit by David Gardner on Byron Leftwich was a legal block. It was after the interception, therefore Gardner became a blocker and made a legal block. Everybody knows it was not needed in terms of where Hefflin was on the return, but it was a legal hit. There were some other calls, but you have to play over that stuff.
Toledo fans can say that they would have won if the game was played on a neutral field, and I believe that would be true. Just like Toledo could have claimed in the '98 game in Huntington. Or like WMU could have claimed in the 2000 game in Huntington. Or just like Marshall could have claimed in the 2001 game in Toledo. It is a sad fact that the MAC is the only Division I-A conference championship game that is not played on a neutral field. However, the MAC does not have the fan support to play on a neutral field.
The championship needs to be on a neutral field if the game is going to have validity. But that is impossible for the MAC at this point. There is a reason that the home team has won every MAC Championship Game. There is also a reason that teams like Toledo and Marshall have only lost at home once in the last 3 years.
I should be really pissed off about Toledo losing because I really thought they would win. But I'm not too upset. At the beginning of the year everyone wrote Toledo off. The best prediction they got was from the MAC Media which picked them 2nd in the West behind BG. Everyone expected Toledo to be rebuilding. To come on and win the West with victories at NIU and at home against BG......To get a Motor City Bowl bid.......and to play so good against Marshall, in Huntington, and come so close to winning another MAC Championship is unbelievable. Nobody expected it at the beginning of the season. Even they I hoped it could happen, I did not even expect it. Because of this I am very proud of this team.
Once again, congratulations to Marshall. Toledo/Marshall is really becoming a very good, competitive rivalry! Good luck in the GMAC Bowl. I hope Toledo and Marshall represent the MAC well in their bowl games.
<span style='font-family:Arial'><span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>GO ROCKETS!</span></span></span>
<!--EDIT|rocketfootball|Dec 8 2002, 04:14 AM-->
rocketfootball Wrote:IWhether Marshall fans want to admit it or not, the hit by David Gardner on Byron Leftwich was a legal block. It was after the interference, therefore Gardner became a blocker and made a legal block.
"He hit me high, so honestly, it wasn't dirty," Leftwich said. "It was unfortunate that the fight may have taken something away from the game."
Leftwich thought so as well...
rocketfootball Wrote:I should be really pissed off about Toledo losing because I really thought they would win. But I'm not too upset. At the beginning of the year everyone wrote Toledo off. The best prediction they got was from the MAC Media which picked them 2nd in the West behind BG. Everyone expected Toledo to be rebuilding. To come on and win the West with victories at NIU and at home against BG......To get a Motor City Bowl bid.......and to play so good against Marshall, in Huntington, and come so close to winning another MAC Championship is unbelievable. Nobody expected it at the beginning of the season. Even they I hoped it could happen, I did not even expect it. Because of this I am very proud of this team.
Well said!!!!!!! According to the "experts", we werent even suppose to be here. Can't wait to regain our MAC Title back at the Glass Bowl next year!!
From my vantage point at the game, I thought that the hit from Gardner came after the Toledo player, that intercepted the pass, was down. In the article written about the game at ESPN.com, they wrote:
"Gardner thought his hit, which came after an interception by Brandon Hefflin, was legal. But it came just after the whistle, prompting a personal-foul penalty and setting off a fight."
MU80 Wrote:From my vantage point at the game, I thought that the hit from Gardner came after the Toledo player, that intercepted the pass, was down. In the article written about the game at ESPN.com, they wrote:
"Gardner thought his hit, which came after an interception by Brandon Hefflin, was legal. But it came just after the whistle, prompting a personal-foul penalty and setting off a fight."
Just after a whistle down field from where they were. Do you really think Gardner heard that whistle and if so he could react in time, if that is how it happened???
If Gardner had indeed not heard a whistle then I can see that IN HIS MIND he was making a legal block. However if that block did come after the whistle had sounded, then the personal-foul for a late hit was the correct call regardless of Gardner's intent.
My seat was on the home side of the field at the 45 yard line [to the right of the 50 yard line]. I was watching the play to my left, the interception and runback. After the Toledo player was tackled I immediately turned my attention to the right, to see what Leftwich's reaction would be; and was able to witness the hit. I can not recall when the whistle actually sounded, but the hit occurred after Hefflin was down.
rocketfootball,
Good post. You guys had one hell of a season, won the MAC-West, nearly won the MAC title on the road and are now going to win the Motor City bowl for the second consecutive year. After the considerable losses you guys endured from last season that is one hell of an accomplishment. All year the talk in the MAC was about BG and NIU in the West and all Toledo did was go about their business and then they took care of business on the field against the Falcons and Huskies.
While it is clear the top echilon of the MAC have improved, it was easy to see today why Marshall and Toledo just somehow remain a half step ahead of the rest...when it comes down to the wire BOTH teams stepped up and made big plays when they had to, and that is a true mark of a champion. IMO Toledo and Marshall are about as evenly matched as you could get. I'd say if they played a 100 times on a neutral field you'd prolly get 50 wins by both squads (and prolly never see the offenses stopped :D ).
Concerning the hit on Byron...I'd agree it was prolly a "legal" hit but also believe it was clearly a "cheap" shot and certainly ignited all of the emotion involved in this battle. The Toledo D didn't get to Byron much all day, so I guess you have to take what you can get.
I sincerely hate for Byron and co. that the Marshall defense is so inept. With any kind of support on the other side of the football this team could really have made some waves this season. It will be tough seeing Byron depart. He has been a class act at Marshall on and off the field. He'll not win the heisman, but there is no doubt in my mind that he is the most talented player in college football today.
Again, hats of to both the Herd and Rockets for another fantastic game! It seems like everytime the MAC gets on TV we get treated to an amazing show.
Kudos to the Rockets fans that made the trip. You were loud, you were involved throughout the game and you represented your school admirably. Also, hats off to coach Amstutz who was a class act in defeat afterwards.
One downer has to be the attendance. No reason the stadium shouldn't have had 30+K, period, no excuses. I sure hope MU keeps winning b/c we have a hell of a lot of fair weather fans that DO NOT KNOW HOW TO SUPPORT THEIR TEAM!!!
This MU-UT rivalry just keeps getting bigger and better...hopefully it will continue for a long time. I'm already looking forward to the Rockets trip to Huntington in '03 and hopefully a rematch for all the marbles in Toledo next December.
Go Herd!
Go MAC!
<!--EDIT|rocketfootball|Dec 8 2002, 05:41 AM-->
Sorry about the word class act getting filtered. Due to some bad words on here tonight, I am working on adding some word filters. I have corrected the filter that caused class to get edited.
I want to say "Congratulations" to the Rockets.
From everything I read this year....you guys weren't supposed to be here. I doubt very seriously that any of you really believed that crap. You guys have a good program and I'm sure the players believed they would play in the MACC, otherwise they would have folded against NIU or BG.
Sorry to Rocketfootball and Karl. Someone had to lose this game.
I had to take a step back when I saw the Rocket O-line. I heard those guys were big, but damn!! Marshall's defensive linemen looked really small compared to their counter-parts. Once the game got started, I was thinking about David and Goliath. I wasn't impressed at all. Marshall stopped the pass, stopped the run, and penetrated the line at will. By the 3rd quarter, Toledo's line started showing some good play, and exploding off the line to set up some good walls for the runners.
I thought the Marshall O-line (THe BEST in the MAC, IMHO) gave Leftwich all day to throw, like they pretty much have done all season. There are several reasons Leftwich had the season he did....the line is a big reason.
Leftwich is the best QB in the nation bar none. Most of you don't like him, but he played through some pain and still put up good numbers. I am very thankful I got a chance to see him live....it was worth it.
This will piss some people off, but I do that sometimes. Brian Jones is overrated!!! If it weren't for the screen pass, this guy would have no game. He connected on a couple of plays that got good yardage....but most of his yards come ala Tim Couch.....throwing screen passes all day. He's got a noodle for an arm and he can't throw downfield at all. He put up some ducks because he has no zing on the ball. He threw two interceptions. If people stop the screen pass...you guys are in serious trouble.
Unless.....your RB's are on. Phenominal!!! Trinity Dawson was all that and a bag of chips. He has blazing speed and running behind those hogs will help him tremendously. Your coach did a good job of rotating your backs. Marshall has had trouble stopping the run, and he made sure a fresh back was in at all times. This kid will be a household name one day!!
I thought your TE was really good. He is an athletic guy and made some good catches.
Marshall was helped alot today by their special teams, which looked much better than Toledo's. Your D was backed up alot today because of the good field position we got from kick returns. And I can't resist. Jason Robbins for Heisman? He sure helped us alot today. He possibly cost you the game with that blown kick. Of course, that would depend on him hitting a 50+ yarder at the end of the game.
Marshall's wide receivers were open all night long. You didn't have anyone who could keep up with Watts. Davis and Mariott consistently got open. I don't really remember your WR's doing a whole lot....but that goes back to those screen passes.
Pruett is a good coach who has put together an excellent staff. He has these kids believing they can win every game they play. Most of you don't like Marshall. Well, get used to us winning. Not many of you, if any at all, thought Marshall would do much in '97 when we moved up from I-AA. Well, the plan had been in place for a long time and with a roster full of I-AA players, we moved up, won the Division and the Conference Championship. Won The MACC in '98, '99, '00 and now '02.
Until someone steps up and takes all this away from us....keep talking all the crap you want and we'll keep winning. Tell us how we can't win when Moss leaves. Tell us we're doomed when Pennington moves on. Tell us we are going to suck when Leftwich is gone. Better yet...PROVE IT!!!!
WE ARE.....MARSHALL!!!!!!!
I almost forgot my most important post. Hey Oddball... :D :D :D
Hope you lose lots of sleep knowing the Props with the mops, mopped up your butts tonight!!!!!
Gotta love it!!!!!!!
Now I am done ranting. I can now turn my attention to the GMAC Bowl and the Motor City Bowl where I will cheer the HERD and the Rockets while they kick some a$$....MAC style!!!!!
<!--EDIT|Herd Fan 4-Life|Dec 8 2002, 12:59 AM-->
You've got to understand that Jones in great because he plays our system well. We never said he was a Leftwich type QB. He does what he has to do. Our offense is built around high percentage passing. He isn't great down field, but he CAN do it. If you had seen us against NIU and BG you would know he is capable of the big play. Bottom line, he is a good leader and can lead the team back under the toughest circumstances. And he said the single season pass yardage record for UT. We have never been QBU like Marshall. We have always relied more on the run. Our OC Rob Spence has brought a more wide open style to UT. We pass a lot more this year than we ever did under Pinkel. I like our balance because you get to see so many differant players contribute. Just look at today 217 rushing, 221 passing. That's about as balanced as you can get. It will be interesting to see who takes Jones's place next year. Both guys waiting in the wings have stronger arms! :D We may have more of a downfield component next year.
Congrats to both teams on some good offensive fireworks today. I was fairly busy during late afternoon, so I only got to see patches of the game. But it looked quite entertaining.
Toledo's freshman running back is going to tear it up over the next four years. I'm wondering if I'll get to see him get some playing time at the MCB.
And while it goes without saying that Leftwich is one of the most talented QBs the conference has ever seen, it's a bit of a shame how he's evolved into such an insufferable egomaniac. What with going on and on about the All-MAC selection "conspiracy", then kissing his own bicepts and the gunslinger routine, the guy seems to be showing more of his true colors in his final collegiate weeks. I'm sure those NFL millions will bring him back down to earth (LOL).
Motown Bronco Wrote:And while it goes without saying that Leftwich is one of the most talented QBs the conference has ever seen, it's a bit of a shame how he's evolved into such an insufferable egomaniac. What with going on and on about the All-MAC selection "conspiracy", then kissing his own bicepts and the gunslinger routine, the guy seems to be showing more of his true colors in his final collegiate weeks. I'm sure those NFL millions will bring him back down to earth (LOL).
Those antics should have been flagged. You have to wonder if he hurt himself by being such an ******? Despite his talent, I've got to believe that not many NFL teams want someone acting like that. Not that it'll keep him from being drafted highly, but he won't be received well by any team with that attitude.
Btw, even if Will Bratton returns to action in the MCB, you'll get a healthy dose of Trinity Dawson and Astin Martin. Might even see some of Broussard who, when he's on, will make you think that Wasean Tait has suited up again.
Goofball,
You have got to be kidding me.
Does your hate of MU go that deep that you can find fault in a 21 year old showing some excitment.
Your post, along with most of your analysis, as well as the mighty Rockets that were going to win 42 to 0 are PITIFUL.
The spin I have seen on this board makes the Clinton administration look like begginners.
Beacuse you weren't supposed to be here, that makes it all better.
See ya in Title Town next year ,losers.
Gardner's hit wasn't legal.
1) He hit Leftwich after the whistle
2) It was a helmet-to-helmet hit
But, even if it was legit, it was still low-class - with a clear intent to cause further injury to a defenseless opponent. Gardner compared it to Warren Sapp's hit - which, although perfectly legal, was also low-class, and left an opposing player with a serious, if not career-ending, injury. Leftwich said that he expected it from Gardner - that he had studied game films and saw that Gardner had a habit of hitting QBs late.
But - Gardner is atypical of the rest of the Rockets team, who apparantly understood the spirit of competition and sportsmanship. To paint the Rockets team as a bunch of low-lifes because of Gardner would be like accusing all Rockets fans of being scumbags because of Oddball.
And, credit should also go to the Rockets coaching staff - to the best of my knowledge, they didn't assault a single Marshall fan.
Herdon. You, personally, are nothing but an @ss. Those antics were stupid, uncalled for and against the rules.
From the 2002 NCAA Football Rules and Interpretations:
[quote]ARTICLE 1. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct or any act that interferes with orderly game administration on the part of players, substitutes, coaches, authorized attendants or any other persons subject to the rules, before the game, during the game or between periods.
a . Specifically prohibited acts and conduct include:
1 . No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use obscene or vulgar language or gestures, or engage in acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including:
( a ) Pointing the finger(s), hand(s), arm(s) or ball at an opponent.
( b ) Baiting or insulting an opponent verbally.
( c ) Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way.
( d ) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves).
( e ) Obviously altering stride as an unopposed runner approaches the opponent
Florida Herd Fan, why sully a very good game with such stupidity? It was a clean hit. The ONLY legitimate argument is whether the whistle had blown. Anything else is foolishness.
Clean hit, followed by retaliation, dive, more retaliation, flags, ejections, crowd back into the game. All fine with me.
As for the gunslinging routine, come on Odd, it was fine. Certainly no worse than the Toledo players giving the cut-throat gesture to the marshall fans. (which I'm sure was unprovoked
). Things like that are fun for the game. There's a big difference between that and taunting or being unsportsmanlike. Lighten up a tad.
Besides, I think the NFL would love soeone with that type of exuberance and emotion. Sure if he tries that in the bigs he'll get clocked, but college is a different game.
Goofball, that hit was totaly uncalled for. The rocket lineman that did it is known around the conference for taking cheap shots when people are not looking. His argument that he was just blocking leftwich is a joke, like byron was going to tackle anyone. The ball carrier would have to run straight at him and trip over him for Byron to make the tackle.
Its good to know that in your life you have time to read the NCAA rule book, get off your knees and out of the house, theirs a big world out there.