:angel: The tape of the Ball St. @ CMU game is circulating, as they do, among the various MAC coaching staffs and is receiving more than customary attention, according to one assistant. Editing the tape to show only the fouls calls in the lane area apparantly shows a remarkable difference in how charges and blocks were called on both ends. More than the usual. (This is from a coach not from either team, btw.) The suggestion is not that the refereeing is bad--which almost always means inconsistent--but just a little bit TOO consistent, if you know what I mean.
Most fans like to grumble about how bad calls lose their team's games, but this is not coming from BSU.
The suggestion here is that the MAC wants to have at least one 'marquee' team left this season, and not so much 'parity.'
I'd ask for BSU fans to chime in with their perspective, but they are few and far between on this board. And CMU fans who saw the game also, if both can take off the partisan glasses.
Apparently, and I obviously haven't seen the tape, it was almost impossible for BSU to win this game with the disparity in what was a block and what was a charge at both ends.
Just askin'! :angel:
I don't like to blame the officiating after a loss, and I think our teams' problems this year have primarily been borne of injuries, inexperience in the post, and poor defense. And also having only one true shooter on the entire team (Chris Williams).
I didn't see the CMU game, so I can't comment on the officiating for that particular game. However, we have had more than our share of these types of games. In four of our road losses worked by MAC crews, we have been on the short end of a 20-plus FT disparity. In our one-point OT loss at Akron, the Zips went to the line over 30 times more than the Cards did.
You normally would chalk that up to "life on the road in the MAC," however, we haven't been the beneficiary of a similar disparity even once at home. And every single game that Sam Lickliter works, BSU is on the short end of the FT shooting totals. This guy has had an issue with BSU going back to the late 80s, and he takes it out on us every time he works a Cardinal game. (Although Miami has also had their issues with Sam... and it was amusing to hear both teams' fans simultaneously direct their ire at Sam during the game in Muncie last month).
That said, I think the MAC officiating (which has never been too good to begin with) has hit rock-bottom this season. For several reasons...
1. Inconsistency. The games are called too tight as it is, but most coaches and players can live with that as long as the fouls are called equally on both ends, and the game is called that way for the ENTIRE game. I have yet to witness one MAC game this year where the definition of a foul was the same in the second half as it was in the first. Indeed, it seems like no MAC game is whistled consistently for more than five or six minutes at a time.
2. Way too many whistles away from the ball. Unless guys are trading elbows, the refs have to allow players to battle for position. To not do so goes against everything the players have been taught their entire basketball lives.
3. Way too many whistles, period. Look, they don't need to let it become the NBA in terms of roughness, but there has to be a happy medium here. MAC games have absolutely no flow to them this season because there is a foul called nearly every time down the floor, most of which are dinky touch fouls that the refs could easily let go.
It's gotten to the point that the refs are assuming contact on plays where there is none. In the BSU-Toledo game at Muncie in Jan., I saw no fewer than FOUR fouls called where there was no contact whatsoever (three of them went against Toledo, so you know I'm not complaining on behalf of my team on this). Toledo's Shellbarger absolutely didn't come within three feet of an opposing player on one play where he was called for a foul.
For the record, that BSU-Toledo game drew the loudest fan condemnation of the refs on the BSUFans.com board this season, even though BSU won the game. The officiating in that contest was nothing short of utterly incompetent, on both sides. You know it was bad when Cardinal fans were booing fouls called on their opponent.
The MAC absolutely has to do something about this... it will make it harder for the league to keep good coaches around, it will hurt attendance (even NIU fans were bored during an 18-point win over BSU earlier this year because of the constant whistles), and ultimately, hurt our teams when they get to the NCAAs, where games are reffed more consistently and battles are more physical.
It's a tough topic: it's always bad form to complain about officiating when you lose, plus you never get credence anyway. Winning teams are reluctant to say they won BECAUSE of the refs, though will begrudge sometimes that the refs were bad "both ways."
I found this interesting because it came from neither team involved. (And not from my team, either, btw.)
The MAC likes to pride itself on having quality academics and athletics and in many ways is a model conference that avoids the horrid excesses of many of the big anme conferences. This is an area where the MAC needs to establish credibility, too. We need to be known for having games run in the best manner possible and we are way behind on this in both basketball and football.
Thanks for weighing in, Papa Lou!
<!--EDIT|axeme|Mar 5 2003, 12:06 PM-->
Combine this with last football season, and the MAC has a serious problem, imo.
Yes, you may lament about MAC refs, but the "Big Boys" have been having some serious problems as well.
For two examples, go ask Joe Pa and Bobby Knight their opinions. :ninja:
Oddball Wrote:Combine this with last football season, and the MAC has a serious problem, imo.
I know, other than that great pass-interference call in MUMU VI, I didn't see a lot of quality, gutsy calls out of MAC officials. :D
Didn't you see the two gutsy calls that preceeded it? Or the gutsy non-call that followed?
Let me chime in as one of those "rare" Ball State fans and concur with Papa Lou's opinion that MAC officiating has hit rock bottom.
It sucks. But it's bad for everyone--not just BSU. I don't believe the Cards have lost a single game because of officiating. Nonetheless, the contests are very painful to watch.
I believe the problem is due, in part, to a shrinking number of officials. And guess what? The MAC probably isn't getting the best and the brightest from the refereeing gene pool.
axeme Wrote:The MAC likes to pride itself on having quality academics and athletics and in many ways is a model conference that avoids the horrid excesses of many of the big anme conferences. This is an area where the MAC needs to establish credibility, too. We need to be known for having games run in the best manner possible and we are way behind on this in both basketball and football.
Not to tilt at a windmill senor, but I agree completely with this sentiment.
axeme: I don't really buy the conspiracy theory, and not just because my team would be the hypothetical beneficiary of rigged calls. Why? I've seen Kaman get in foul trouble as a result of some questionable calls on a couple occasions this season. I've seen CMU's backcourt in foul trouble -- and foul out -- in at least two MAC games. I've seen plenty of questionable calls and non-calls against CMU as well as our opponents. I've seen some calls I'm almost positive were make-up calls, again in both directions. Also, a one-point loss to Akron would have been easy for an official to "turn around"... if CMU was the MAC's "protected" favorite. And why would we be? Before the season, we were projected to finish sixth in the MAC West. If the league wanted to give a certain team covert assistance, Ohio or Kent would have been more logical choices. For that matter, remember that we lost a close game at Kent.
I didn't see the Ball State game, so I can't directly comment on it. However, I notice that the Ball State fans aren't complaining, and I'd think they would, if something seemed less than Kosher. I could buy that one or two officials may have it in for a certain coach or player, as suggested earlier in this thread.
A couple more comments: in general, what is or isn't a charge is one of the most subjective calls in basketball, at every level, and such calls are among the most disputed. Bill Laimbeer was discussing this during a recent Pistons broadcast. I could certainly believe that some calls in that area were botched, especially in a college game. :rolleyes: Okie Chip's comment is also true: Big Ten and ACC coaches in both football and basketball have aired numerous public gripes about officiating this season.
Hey, I'd be happy to be the beneficiary of rigged calls! It might be the only way to turn my team around.
What I found interesting was it coming from a third party, particularly that it was not coming from the BSU camp, at least directly. And no one wants to hear the losing team complain about officials anyway.
And although I agree that the officiating pool is limited, here they were, apparently, again according to this one assistant, clearly calling things differently at both ends. He wasn't up in arms about it. Just found it amusing/pathetic.
I think CMU should lose their next 3 games, just to disprove this crackpot theory!
C'mon Chips, take one for the conference! :wave:
Quote: think CMU should lose their next 3 games, just to disprove this crackpot theory!
C'mon Chips, take one for the conference!
Hey, we already did that last season!
The CMU/NIU game in DeKalb last week was one of the most poorly officiated games I have ever seen on any level. I don't think what I saw necessarily corroborated the conspiracy theory as it was simply awful on both sides, maybe even a little worse for them. But the inconsistency in what was a foul was astounding. A whole lot of stuff away from the ball and ticky-tack stuff got called , but Jay Bates got mugged on a fast break and nothing. Even the CMU guys were surprised.
I haven't seen enough basketball games to say conclusively the MAC has a big problem. However, I can say what I have seen has been troubling.
Oddball Wrote:Didn't you see the two gutsy calls that preceeded it? Or the gutsy non-call that followed?
No, I must have missed those. :wave:
You were probably on the phone to Ticketmaster trying to get some Buffett tickets during that part of the game. Have I mentioned to you recently that Buffett sucks?
Oddball Wrote:You were probably on the phone to Ticketmaster trying to get some Buffett tickets during that part of the game. Have I mentioned to you recently that Buffett sucks?
Odd now you have gone too far. Are you a Commie? You have to like "Gods Own Drunk and a Fearless Man" :D :D
Oddball--
How can you not like Warren Buffett?!
The man's brilliant!
axeme Wrote:Oddball--
How can you not like Warren Buffett?!
The man's brilliant!
No, no, no, you misunderstand, axeme...I have no problem with Warren Buffet (or his flakey sister, Shirley MacLaine). It's his insipid halfwit drunkard of a little brother that I find so tiresome. Getting wasted and gluing a stuffed parrot to your shoulder is not "accessorizing" anymore than caterwalling about a greasy meat products in Eden is "balladeering".
Oddball Wrote:axeme Wrote:Oddball--
How can you not like Warren Buffett?!
The man's brilliant!
No, no, no, you misunderstand, axeme...I have no problem with Warren Buffet (or his flakey sister, Shirley MacLaine). It's his insipid halfwit drunkard of a little brother that I find so tiresome.
Wrong, Oddball!
Her brother is the guy who played the colonel first on the TV version of M.A.S.H--McLean Stevenson. His insipid halfwit drunkard of a little brother is
Parker Stevenson. I don't know bout no parrots...
Now I'm getting confused. I thought Parker Stevenson and the glue sniffing parrot were the MAC officials at the Ball State - CMU game.