There are tons of published reports (pre-dated by lots of internet rumor) concerning the possible ACC raid of Miami, Syracuse and BC from the BigEast.
If it happens, there would be and the obvious need for the 5-6 remaining BigEast football teams (Va-Tech, WestVirginia, Pitt, Rutgers, Temple and/or UConn) to either rebuild their FB conference (will the BigEast BB schools agree to it?) or find another one (C-USA?) or start another one (pieces of C-USA, MAC, eastern independents and BigEast).
Would a new all-sports conference of BigEast and C-USA teams create enough left over teams to effect the MAC, SunBelt and WAC? Would the remaining C-USA expand to replace lost teams - or merge with the WAC-east to form a new SWC (TCU, Houston, SoMiss, Tulane, UAB, USF, Memphis, Tulsa, Rice, SMU, La-Tech....maybe UCF too)?
Does all of this movement free up Army, MTSU, or even Cincinnati? Is the MAC likely to expand/split into two/re-organize to adjust to these newly independent teams in our area?
Does UCF still fit when other more local teams/conferences might be available - to them and to the MAC? Would they be part of someone else's expansion plans now anyway? Does this effect MAC Bowls?
Is Marshall going to still be here when the dust settles?
What are your opinions about which MAC conference teams might be leaving - or asked to - if any?
Does this effect the MAC at all - or only a bit?
Does the BigEast split? If it splits, does the then necessary expansion of the BB side (only 6 teams = Providence, SetonHall, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, NotreDame) have any effect on the MAC? Are there MAC schools that would go it alone in FB (or drop FB to I-AA or drop it entirely) to join this non-FB conference? Is this the answer the KentSt FB attendence woes or Ohio's chance to join an eastern conference?
What about Buffalo? Could a group like Army, Navy, Buffalo, Temple, and other left-over eastern pieces form a FB conference/alliance that helps Buffalo's attendence? Coud Ohio send FB here and join the BigEast BB for everything else?
Do the C-USA non-FB teams (DePaul, St.Louis, Marquette) get freed up? Does this affect the MAC?
Lots of possible topics here guys.....
<!--EDIT|nert|May 7 2003, 11:33 AM-->
Don't forget the often discussed ramifications of the 15K bodies in seats rule that is effective 2004. How many D-1 schools will be left at the bottom end of the MAC and Sun-Belt to bother the situation?
nert Wrote:Lots of possible topics here guys.....
And we've exhausted them all. :rolleyes:
Nert, you now hold the record for the most questions in one post. Ya know, there are so many scenarios that could play out that it could drive someone mad trying to account for them all. A major realignment may be in our near future, spanning from coast to coast. Then again, nothing could happen. Instead of trying to find every path that may be taken, perhaps we should enjoy the ride. It'll be real interesting to see how things pan out. I guess all the I-A schools will have to put their future scheduling on hold till this all blows over.
:D
well I dont know much about this....but I think Central Florida and Marshall would be first to leave the conference. The future of the MAC looks shaky IMO
Would they leave for a Conference USA sans Louisville and Cincinnati and even further away from BCS entitlement than it is now?
Fans might want that. I'm not sure it makes sense, though.
RochesterFalcon Wrote:Would they leave for a Conference USA sans Louisville and Cincinnati and even further away from BCS entitlement than it is now?
Fans might want that. I'm not sure it makes sense, though.
It would be stupid for Marshall to join CUSA without Louiville and Cinncy. USF will probably want to keep UCF out of CUSA to maintain recruiting advantages.
KC
Without Louisville and Cincy, I don't think Marshall would leave the MAC. Those are the only two CUSA schools we have played recently (as I recall) and no other schools are within realistic driving distance.
As for everything else, I'm reminded of clients who come up with endless "what if" scenarios. Typically, I tell them you can "what if" something to death but the more prudent course of action is to do what ya gots ta do at a particular point and then sit back and see how the other side reacts.
L'ville is clearly the front contender in any shakeup.
But, I'd bet that USF, UCF and Marshall would be even w/ Cincy for another slot.
Cincy beats Marshall for academics and bball.
Marshall beats Cincy for football.
WVU hates Marshall, but legislatures may play a bigger role in this deal. And like it or not, a MU/WVU rivalry would be good for the conference and both teams.
UCF and USF bring back the Fla markets for the Big East.
Both are equal to or greater than Cincy in football.
UCF might be comparable to Cincy in academics, I don't know about USF except for the guy who launders money for terrorists.
There are too many questions left.
Does the Big East go back to Temple? Do the good teams separate themselves from the dregs (Temple, Rutgers, UConn) and try to start a new conference?
Where do Army and Navy fit in?
Obviously an Eastern Conference w/ Army, Navy, Buffalo, Temple, Rutgers, UConn makes sense. Do they go to Div IAA? Does the NCAA find a way to keep these guys Div IA?
Kent going to the Big East sans football could make sense. Has the admin been eyeing this scenario?
The SBC could benefit a great deal from all this: Imagine ECU and SMU joining them as CUSA crumbles. That's a boon for the SBC.
In above scenarios the MAC could lose 4 teams...back to a 10 team conference. That means the MACC is lost. Is it worth expanding to 12? Who would be candidates? Cincy? ND? Troy State?
Good article on the mad scramble taking place.
<a href='http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/127/sports/Hurricanes_stirring_up_a_whirlwind+.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/127/spor...hirlwind+.shtml</a>
Essency Wrote:Nert, you now hold the record for the most questions in one post. Ya know, there are so many scenarios that could play out that it could drive someone mad trying to account for them all. A major realignment may be in our near future, spanning from coast to coast. Then again, nothing could happen. Instead of trying to find every path that may be taken, perhaps we should enjoy the ride. It'll be real interesting to see how things pan out. I guess all the I-A schools will have to put their future scheduling on hold till this all blows over.
:D
Everyone in the MAC is going to end up at least in a decent Midmajor-1-AA conference.
Don't worry, be happy.
:)
My guess is Miami will move to ACC along with Syracuse.
Marshall will go to Big East.
I don't see many major changes in the future, honestly.
Don't forget about E.Carolina...I'd say outside of Louisville they'd be one of the better candidates out there for whatever 'new' league(s) forms.
Don't forget basketball. This is why Cincinnati is extremely attractive and East Carolina isn't, so much.
Interesting thoughts. UCF with a BIG head. Marshall and a great football program and little else. C-USA - HA! Look at what Marshall and Toledo have done to them over the past few years - they gave us their best and we beat them. Without Louisville and Cincy, C-USA is lower division MAC.
AS for the MAC teams being 1-AA - the CARDS have already said NO to this idea. We are 1-A and will remain 1-A. Outside of Marshall, no other MAC team has had the success of the CARDS in football since joining the league in 1975. Since the MAC basketball Tournment began, the CARDS are way out in fornt in Tournement wins. Baseball - we had the first No. 1 draft player in MAC history in any sport, MAC Tennis - we own the throphy...
The CARDS may not be the best, but we are as good as anybody in the league and we have the gold to prove it.
That being said, we have some weak brothers. Marshall and UCF have been great additions. The MAC has made strong strides in the past six years and it keeps getting better.
Look at scheduling this year in MAC football - darn, NIU has two BCS schools coming to town. The CARDS host Missouri, with Boston College coming next year. Heck, even astern has Maryland coming to town! It's fantastic.
In basketball - we have a great run for a number of years! It hurts to only get one NCAA bid - but we can improve on that as well.
A BIG TEN, SEC, etc., probably not ever. A BIG EAST, C-USA, YES!
The BIGS will continue there efforts to get ever stronger. The MAC must continue its quest to move up the mountain. Progress has been slow. Better the past few years. But the MAC has accomplished this in a manner that respects the tradition of college athletics and the student athlete - that's something to be proud of!
David75URS Wrote:Outside of Marshall, no other MAC team has had the success of the CARDS in football since joining the league in 1975.
Not sure how many Championships Ball State has won since 1975 so I can't really argue, but this is what Toledo has won in football since '75:
1981 MAC Champions (California Bowl Champs)
1984 MAC Champions (California Bowl Champs)
1990 Co-MAC Champions
1995 MAC Champions (Vegas Bowl Champs)
1997 West Division Champions
1998 West Division Champions
2000 Co-West Division Champions
2001 Co-West Division Champions - MAC Champions (Motor City Bowl Champions)
2002 Co-West Division Champions
That is 5 MAC Championships, 4 West Division Titles, and a 4-1 record in Bowl Games.
All interesting off-season "fodder", but if I were a betting man (and I'm not), I'd say that Miami will not end up bolting the Big Least for the ACC.
Now, all that said, it's still fun to speculate on what might happen if they (and Cuse and BC) all do leave. (and I'll leave hoops out of it for now, although it's certainly a factor, esp. with the Big East non-football playing members)
To me the first question would then be: Who else will bolt the BE, and the answer is likely Pitt (for the B10/11/12 or whatever they'll be called).
The next question: Can the BE find replacements that will actually help them to secure a BCS playoff guarantee? I'd say it's unlikely.
The next question: Who would the BE invite to keep their league afloat? The only obvious choice (to me) would be Louisville. After that each choice has it's positives and negatives. They could go to UCF and/or USF to get the Florida market back. They could go to Marshall for football, but their hoops program isn't too hot, and WVU might object. They could choke down UC, but that would mostly be a hoops "play", and they could take ECU (for football) due to geography.
What non-BCS conferences would be affected most? Well, that depends on who they invite, but if UC and UL go, it really hurts C-USA, and if they don't invite Marshall, then the Herd wouldn't have much reason to bolt the MAC for what's left of the C-USA, since in theory UC and UL would be their best geographic rivals if went to C-USA. If UCF and Marshall did leave the MAC, well, certainly that would hurt the conference but there'd still be a MAC.
Other possibilities: I guess they are endless. As a Miami fan selfishly I'd enjoy seeing some type of conference where we could be in with UL, UC, and traditional MAC rivals like BG, Toledo, etc., along with the Herd, but that would require a pretty big implosion in the current conference make-up. Kind of fun, eh?
Ball State joined the MAC (in football) in 1975 and won the conference championship in: 1976, 1978, 1989, 1993, and 1996.
BTW rocketfootball. All those Divisional "Championships" and 65 cents will get you a cup of coffee at the local McDonalds.
Thanks for the info on Ball State. I didn't know McDonald's cares about MAC division titles, but thanks for the tip. I might get some coffee.
Arguably Toledo has had a better ride than Ball State since '75.
Toledo 5 MAC Championships and 4-1 Bowl Record
Ball State 5 MAC Championships and 0-3 Bowl Record
The Cards need to learn how to win a Bowl Game!
exCincy Kid Wrote:They could go to Marshall for football, but their hoops program isn't too hot, and WVU might object.
It is fun, and I'd say this for Marshall. Except for academics, they'd fit in this modified Big East, just fine.
Consider, if Marshall is in w/ WVU, how many tix are going to sell for that game. WVU gains a new rival that is guaranteed to sell out for the next decade and probably beyond. But it's not just WVU. Imagine how crowds will be for VPI and Pitt (if they were around) for both home and away. How does that compare w/ Cincy? (Hint: *yawn*)
As for bball, WVU and VPI aren't powerhouses either. Marshall has had some decent seasons (wins over UMass and others) and I think it's clear that they could be competitive. And it depends on which Big East you're talking about. Put in G'town and St Johns, and the conference affiliation may help Marshall hoops improve. If it's the fball Big East, then it's not as clear, but Marshall isn't a big liability.