CSNbbs

If a bigger conference needed to add football schools and came calling to the MAC, which schools would get an honest look?


In my opinion:

Marshall - Plays in the 63rd best market, numerous championships.

Toledo - Plays in southern Michigan (practically). Has solid program with head coach that wants to stay in Toledo.

UCF - Orlando market. Has been road warriors with larger schools (thanks, Rochester Falcon).

Miami - plays well against larger schools. Also, beats up on Cincinnati (from C-USA) on yearly basis.

Northern Illinois - Huskies making noise in Dekalb, also brings the Chicago market.

Bowling Green - University in the middle of nowhere, but brings solid program.

Western Michigan - Up and down in terms of talent. Market is a positive. Has Darnell left for greener pastures yet?

It must be the off-season. :snore:



<!--EDIT|Chris from WV|May 16 2003, 02:58 PM-->

You left out UCF, which might be the easiest sell of all.

Well, I see that this subject is getting alot of "air time" on the various MAC and Herd boards, but I guess I expect the BE to put out an all out assault to keep their shakey conference together......latest rumors are that they'll "kick out" the non-football playing schools into a separate division (or league, I guess).

IF the BE loses 3 prominent members, they will first attempt to salvage their BCS guarantee.........despite all the various speculation the Lousiville, UC, and Marshall's of the football-playing world ain't gonna help that happen IMHO. Perhaps they can lure ND into the fold (although I would expect ND to re-consider B10 affiliation if they feel they need to make any move). If ND sez no to the BE, then Pitt will try to edge out Missou for a B10 slot, further weakening the BE.

In the event that the BE is relagated to non-BCS status, then I look for them to get reasonable about what schools improve them as a football and an all sports conference......in that case Louisville comes to the top of the heap, and perhaps UC. Why? 'Cause each of these programs is in the elite of the college hoops world, and they both have large city markets and excellent facilities (new Papa John Stadium at UL and renovated Nippert at UC, plus UC if putting another $80 mil into various athletic facilities, including a new baseball stadium, etc., etc.). After that, it's anybody's guess......ECU, USF or UCF & maybe even Marshall.

I don't look for the MAC to change membership much........UCF and Marshall are probably the only two members in the MAC that are distinct possibilities to leave, although if the BE picks off a couple of C-USA teams then that league could splinter into factions (hoops vs. non hoops plus geography), and I guess there's a remote possibility of some MAC schools hooking up with C-USA leftovers........if only Louisville leaves C-USA then maybe Marshall & UCF would still be interested in that kind of C-USA league, which might also get together with a couple of Sunbelt teams. Other pundits predict that C-USA would be pretty much disbanded in favor of a new conference with some members going over to the WAC or MWC.

Maybe UC will take this opportunity, again (Metro, C-USA), to form a basketball conference they can win ten years in a row before the rest of the league catches up.
And for a wry twist, they could call it the Bearcat Conference for Suckers (BCS).

You are off the mark here excincykid, this thread is not about what is probably going to happen, but rating the canidates to leave the MAC.


1.Marshall-Dark Horse Big East canidate because of football, possible CUSA move by themselves.

2.Ohio-Dark Horse Big East canidate because of location, might move to CUSA with a group of MAC schools.

3.UCF-Would be the first canidate for CUSA if USF moved to the Big East.

4.NIU-Might move to CUSA with a group of MAC schools.

5.Miami-Might move to CUSA with a group of MAC schools.

6.WMU-Might move to CUSA with a group of MAC schools.

7.Toledo-Might move to CUSA with a group of MAC schools.


The rest have a slim chance at being a part of a new northern division of CUSA schools.


KC

KC, although I'll plead "guilty" to expanding the subject matter a bit, I did finally get around to the two programs in the MAC that I thought had possibilities of moving "somewhere else". I don't see any other schools in the MAC going anywhere.

A quick question: How does Toledo (metro population of 600,000) have a smaller TV market the the greater H-ton area? What do they "count" as being in the H-Ton market to bring it up to the 63rd biggest TV market? Just wondering.........

#61 Charleston-Huntington 495,320
#68 Toledo 432,770

<a href='http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html' target='_blank'>According to Nielsen</a>





<!--EDIT|Stick4489|May 16 2003, 08:42 PM-->

#61 Charleston-Huntington 495,320
#68 Toledo 432,770

Charleston-Huntigton is basically the whole state of West Virgina. OK at least half. They are 52 miles apart from each other. Why would they be in the same market?


Now if we can use this same logic, we could say that Toledo and Detroit, 59 miles apart, should be grouped together. (Actually, it really only takes about 45 minutes to get from downtown Toledo to downtown Detroit)

#10 Detroit 1,899,910
+
#68 Toledo 432,770
=
2,332,680

You can't say that MU has a bigger population base to pull from the Toledo.

That's like saying the Detroit/Toledo/Monroe/Ann Arbor region. :rolleyes:

Oddball Wrote:That's like saying the Detroit/Toledo/Monroe/Ann Arbor region. :rolleyes:

NIU, in the #1 DeKalb/Chicago/Milwaukee/Minneapolis/St.Louis market of 15 million plus, are clearly in the best position to "move up".

It doesn't seem logical to me. Perhaps, some areas that one might assume are included in Toledo's market are actually included in Detroit's.

Or maybe they don't count the TVs that have been looted from Toledo pawn shops.

I have seen several Marshall fans use the size of the Huntington metro area as one of the reasons they would be admitted to a newly configured Big East conference. Marshall fans do have some arguments for admittance to a BCS conference but TV market is something that would be used against them when it comes time to pick the teams at the top of the heap for membership. Several MAC schools are located in the top 15 TV markets, E Mich., Akron, Kent. I guess using Marshall fans logic these three programs should be admitted to the new Big East

1 New York 7,282,320 6.829
2 Los Angeles 5,318,040 4.987
3 Chicago 3,351,330 3.143
4 Philadelphia 2,830,470 2.654
5 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,436,220 2.284
6 Boston (Manchester) 2,353,500 2.207
7 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,195,540 2.059
8 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,169,230 2.034
9 Atlanta 1,971,180 1.848
10 Detroit 1,899,910 1.782
11 Houston 1,814,140 1.701
12 Seattle-Tacoma 1,659,100 1.556
13 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,620,110 1.519
14 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,594,740 1.495
15 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,528,840 1.434

Quote:I have seen several Marshall fans use the size of the Huntington metro area as one of the reasons they would be admitted to a newly configured Big East conference.

I definitely wasn't making that argument. I was only supplying the information I saw about market size.

Face it, that "market size" is only due to the cities in question being too small to justify a market of their own. Marshall has a very finite fan base in a limited TV market.

Correction. The only media NIU brings in the Chicago market is around Rockford (well, it does include the bustling urban centers of DeKalb, Sugar Grove and Sycamore.) The Huskies are a spit in the ocean (or, if you'd prefer, Lake Michigan) to the Chicago sports media.

Only raising this because of posts referring to NIU as bringing the "Chicago" media. NIU brings many good things, but major market here attention ain't one of them.

P.S. - Unless there is a certain basketball coach jumping up and down to leave for U of I - that seems to get attention.

The MAC will be around long after the C-USA dies.
If anything was to happen I forsee the MAC getting acouple of C-USA teams to join.
IMO
But who really cares? None of this will happen for another couple of years.
As for Bowling Green being in the" middle of nowhere" Have you ever been to BG? I live here and it's only a few minutes from Toledo. 30,000 people (not counting students which is another 20,000) live here. Fostoria is to the east which has 40,000. Findlay is about an hour south with about 50,000. Napoleon is west about an hours drive. That's another 30 to 40 thousand people. Perrysburg, Maumee, and Rossford are also afew minutes from BG. That's another 60,000 people.
That's alot of cities and people "in the middle of nowhere"

:mad:
I can't stand it when BG can't seem to fill the Doyt consistently with all of the people who live within an hours drive. Too many damm Michigan and Ohio State fans who would rather sit at home and watch TV then go to a game in person since they couldn't get tickets to see the football factories play.

Quote:That's like saying the Detroit/Toledo/Monroe/Ann Arbor region.

Take Toledo out and stick Flint in, and that's how the U.S. Census Bureau looks at the Detroit Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area. It's huge -- and not very meaningful until you understand what the Census Bureau is trying to get at.

I have similar doubts about the meaning of this purported "market size" of Charleston-Huntington. Some of these Nielsen markets are crazy. The Salt Lake market includes all of Utah and swaths of a couple other states. It isn't very meaningful.

The truth is, metro areas are tough to define and compare. Almost each circumstance is unique.

Quote:As for Bowling Green being in the" middle of nowhere" Have you ever been to BG? I live here and it's only a few minutes from Toledo. 30,000 people (not counting students which is another 20,000) live here.

The population of Bowling Green is about 29,000, and students make up roughly half of that number. (Trust me on this).

The trick for Bowling Green building up a fan base is appealing to the small towns around there and persuading more alumns to drive in from Toledo and Cleveland. This isn't impossible, but it's more of a challenge than that faced by programs like Toledo and Marshall.

RF, you spoken like a true former student not from BG. I'm what you would call a "townie". I was born and raised here. My father still lives and works here. Each year we get more and more people moving into town who are not going to BGSU. 2000 census popullation is 29,632. By now it should be over 30,000. I don't belive this includes the students but I could be wrong. I think it is year round residents that are counted.
The fact is that this is not just a college town. The locals outnumber the students. 6 grade schools, Jr. high school, and high school have an enrollment of about 2000 or more students.
Back to football. BG does get some alumi to come out to the games but not enough of them. BG also stopped recruiting from the local area ( BG, Toledo, Napoleon, ect,,) I think that without local players people outside of BGSU don't have the interest that they would if BG had local talent on the team.
Maybe they have not stopped recruiting locally, but they don't have players from Northwest Ohio.