09-03-2003, 01:51 AM
Please check my numbers for accuarcy - it's late and I'm a bit tired (and annoyed). This WAC poster claimed that the MAC was a step behind the WAC (and that somehow the WAC was in-step with the MWC and C-USA in FB). I posted that the MAC top5 out-performs the WAC top5 and was told by "JJ" that I was way off....
Let me know if you find any errors.
By the numbers 1997-2002 - using only present members of each conference (not members that are now with other conferences) because that's how one would compare the top5 in today's WAC with the top5 in today's MAC. I used the top5 for each year, not the top5 over the period.....
2002:
WAC10: BoiseSt (12-1) (1-1), Hawaii (10-4) (0-1), FresnoSt (9-5) (1-3), SJSU (6-7)(1-2), Nevada (5-7)(0-1)
TOTALS: 42-24 (.636) 3-8 vs BCS (.273)
MAC14: Marshall (11-2)(0-1), BGSU (9-3)(2-0), Toledo (9-5)(0-3), NoIll (8-4)(1-1), Miami(OH)(7-5)(1-2)
TOTALS: 44-19 (.698), 4-7 vs BCS (.363)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, better vs BCS record
2001:
WAC10: FresnoSt (11-3) (3-1), Hawaii (9-3) (0-0), BoiseSt (8-4) (0-2)
Rice (8-4)(1-1), LaTech (7-5)(0-4)
TOTALS: 43-19 (.694), 4-8 vs BCS (.333)
MAC13: Marshall (11-2)(0-1), Toledo (10.2)(2-0), BGSU (8-3)(3-0), Miami(OH)(7-5)(0-2), NoIll (6-5)(0-2)
TOTALS: 42-17 (.712), 5-5 vs BCS (.500)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
2000:
WAC8: BoiseSt (10-2) (0-1), UTEP (8-4)(0-2), FresnoSt (7-5) (1-2), SJSU (7-5) (1-2), Tulsa (5-7)(0-2)
TOTALS: 37-23 (.617), 2-9 vs BCS (.182)
MAC13: Toledo (10-1)(1-0), WestMich (9-3)(1-1), Marshall (8-5)(0-2), Ohio (7-4) (1-1), UCF(7-4) (1-1)
TOTALS: 41-17 (.707), 4-5 vs BCS (.444)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
1999:
WAC8: BoiseSt (10-3) (0-1), Hawaii (9-4) (1-2), LaTech (8-3) (1-3), FresnoSt (8-5) (0-2), Rice (5-6)(0-2)
TOTALS: 40-21 (.656), 2-10 vs BCS (.167)
MAC13: Marshall (13-0)(2-0), Miami(OH) (7-4)(1-1), Akron (7-4)(1-1), WMU (7-5)(0-2), Toledo (6-5)(0-1)
TOTALS: 40-18 (.690), 4-5 vs BCS (.444)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
1998:
WAC16: BoiseSt (6-5) (0-1), Nevada (6-5) (0-1), LaTech (6-6) (0-3), FresnoSt (5-6)(0-2), Rice (5-6)(0-3)
TOTALS: 28-28 (.500), 0-10 vs BCS (.000)
MAC12: Marshall (12-1)(1-0), Miami(OH) (10-1)(1-0), UCF (9-2)(0-2), WestMich (7-4)(1-1), Toledo (7-5)(1-1)
TOTALS: 45-13 (.776), 4-4 vs BCS (.500)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - MUCH better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
1997:
WAC16: LaTech (9-2) (1-3), Rice (7-4) (0-2), SMU (6-5) (1-1), FresnoSt (6-6)(0-2), BoiseSt (5-6)(0-2)
TOTALS: 33-23 (.589), 2-10 vs BCS (.167)
MAC12: Marshall (10-3)(0-2), Toledo (9-3)(1-0), WestMich (8-3)(1-1), Miami(OH)(8-3)(1-0). Ohio (8-3)(1-1)
TOTALS: 43-15 (.741), 4-4 vs BCS (.500)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - MUCH better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
In case you think it's all in the teams I picked, the MAC is also better over the period as a whole conference, but the considerable dead-weight in the MAC brings it closer to the WAC.
WAC RECORDS for the Period:
BoiseSt (51-21)(1-8)
FresnoSt (46-30)(5-12)
LaTech (37-33)(3-20)
--------------------------------.500
Hawaii (34-38)(1-9)
Rice (32-35)(2-11)
SJSU (27-43)(4-15)
SMU (25-43)(2-10)
Nevada (24-44)(0-7)
UTEP(24-45)(0-12)
Tulsa (15-53)(1-11)
TOTAL: 315-385 (.450), 19-115 (.142)
MAC RECORDS for the Period:
Marshall (65-13)(3-6)
Toledo (51-21)(5-5)
Miami(OH) (45-23)(5-6)
WestMich (40-27)(3-10)
UCF (38-29)(1-20)
--------------------------------.500
BGSU (32-35)(5-8)
Ohio (30-37)(2-11)
Akron (27-40)(2-10)
NoIllinois (27-40)(1-11)
BallState (22-45)(0-12)
CentMich (21-46)(0-9)
EastMich (19-48)(0-8)
KentState (15-52)(0-7)
Buffalo (9-57)(1-6)
TOTAL: 441-513 (.462), 28-129 vs BCS (.178)
Overall (by winning percentage):
1. (MAC) Marshall (65-13)(3-6)
2. (MAC) Toledo (51-21)(5-5)
2. (WAC) BoiseSt (51-21)(1-8)
4. (MAC) Miami(OH) (45-23)(5-6)
5. (WAC) FresnoSt (46-30)(5-12)
6. (MAC) WestMich (40-27)(3-10)
7. (MAC) UCF (38-29)(1-20)
8. (WAC) LaTech (37-33)(3-20)
Anyway you slice it, the MAC has outperformed the WAC for the past 6 years (at least).
Let me know if you find any errors.
By the numbers 1997-2002 - using only present members of each conference (not members that are now with other conferences) because that's how one would compare the top5 in today's WAC with the top5 in today's MAC. I used the top5 for each year, not the top5 over the period.....
2002:
WAC10: BoiseSt (12-1) (1-1), Hawaii (10-4) (0-1), FresnoSt (9-5) (1-3), SJSU (6-7)(1-2), Nevada (5-7)(0-1)
TOTALS: 42-24 (.636) 3-8 vs BCS (.273)
MAC14: Marshall (11-2)(0-1), BGSU (9-3)(2-0), Toledo (9-5)(0-3), NoIll (8-4)(1-1), Miami(OH)(7-5)(1-2)
TOTALS: 44-19 (.698), 4-7 vs BCS (.363)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, better vs BCS record
2001:
WAC10: FresnoSt (11-3) (3-1), Hawaii (9-3) (0-0), BoiseSt (8-4) (0-2)
Rice (8-4)(1-1), LaTech (7-5)(0-4)
TOTALS: 43-19 (.694), 4-8 vs BCS (.333)
MAC13: Marshall (11-2)(0-1), Toledo (10.2)(2-0), BGSU (8-3)(3-0), Miami(OH)(7-5)(0-2), NoIll (6-5)(0-2)
TOTALS: 42-17 (.712), 5-5 vs BCS (.500)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
2000:
WAC8: BoiseSt (10-2) (0-1), UTEP (8-4)(0-2), FresnoSt (7-5) (1-2), SJSU (7-5) (1-2), Tulsa (5-7)(0-2)
TOTALS: 37-23 (.617), 2-9 vs BCS (.182)
MAC13: Toledo (10-1)(1-0), WestMich (9-3)(1-1), Marshall (8-5)(0-2), Ohio (7-4) (1-1), UCF(7-4) (1-1)
TOTALS: 41-17 (.707), 4-5 vs BCS (.444)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
1999:
WAC8: BoiseSt (10-3) (0-1), Hawaii (9-4) (1-2), LaTech (8-3) (1-3), FresnoSt (8-5) (0-2), Rice (5-6)(0-2)
TOTALS: 40-21 (.656), 2-10 vs BCS (.167)
MAC13: Marshall (13-0)(2-0), Miami(OH) (7-4)(1-1), Akron (7-4)(1-1), WMU (7-5)(0-2), Toledo (6-5)(0-1)
TOTALS: 40-18 (.690), 4-5 vs BCS (.444)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - Better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
1998:
WAC16: BoiseSt (6-5) (0-1), Nevada (6-5) (0-1), LaTech (6-6) (0-3), FresnoSt (5-6)(0-2), Rice (5-6)(0-3)
TOTALS: 28-28 (.500), 0-10 vs BCS (.000)
MAC12: Marshall (12-1)(1-0), Miami(OH) (10-1)(1-0), UCF (9-2)(0-2), WestMich (7-4)(1-1), Toledo (7-5)(1-1)
TOTALS: 45-13 (.776), 4-4 vs BCS (.500)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - MUCH better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
1997:
WAC16: LaTech (9-2) (1-3), Rice (7-4) (0-2), SMU (6-5) (1-1), FresnoSt (6-6)(0-2), BoiseSt (5-6)(0-2)
TOTALS: 33-23 (.589), 2-10 vs BCS (.167)
MAC12: Marshall (10-3)(0-2), Toledo (9-3)(1-0), WestMich (8-3)(1-1), Miami(OH)(8-3)(1-0). Ohio (8-3)(1-1)
TOTALS: 43-15 (.741), 4-4 vs BCS (.500)
ADVANTAGE: MAC - MUCH better overall record, MUCH better vs BCS record
In case you think it's all in the teams I picked, the MAC is also better over the period as a whole conference, but the considerable dead-weight in the MAC brings it closer to the WAC.
WAC RECORDS for the Period:
BoiseSt (51-21)(1-8)
FresnoSt (46-30)(5-12)
LaTech (37-33)(3-20)
--------------------------------.500
Hawaii (34-38)(1-9)
Rice (32-35)(2-11)
SJSU (27-43)(4-15)
SMU (25-43)(2-10)
Nevada (24-44)(0-7)
UTEP(24-45)(0-12)
Tulsa (15-53)(1-11)
TOTAL: 315-385 (.450), 19-115 (.142)
MAC RECORDS for the Period:
Marshall (65-13)(3-6)
Toledo (51-21)(5-5)
Miami(OH) (45-23)(5-6)
WestMich (40-27)(3-10)
UCF (38-29)(1-20)
--------------------------------.500
BGSU (32-35)(5-8)
Ohio (30-37)(2-11)
Akron (27-40)(2-10)
NoIllinois (27-40)(1-11)
BallState (22-45)(0-12)
CentMich (21-46)(0-9)
EastMich (19-48)(0-8)
KentState (15-52)(0-7)
Buffalo (9-57)(1-6)
TOTAL: 441-513 (.462), 28-129 vs BCS (.178)
Overall (by winning percentage):
1. (MAC) Marshall (65-13)(3-6)
2. (MAC) Toledo (51-21)(5-5)
2. (WAC) BoiseSt (51-21)(1-8)
4. (MAC) Miami(OH) (45-23)(5-6)
5. (WAC) FresnoSt (46-30)(5-12)
6. (MAC) WestMich (40-27)(3-10)
7. (MAC) UCF (38-29)(1-20)
8. (WAC) LaTech (37-33)(3-20)
Anyway you slice it, the MAC has outperformed the WAC for the past 6 years (at least).