CSNbbs

It is apparent to me that Marshall is moving to Conference USA.

I had thought that in 2001 that Marshall was invited for football only, but turned down the bid when they couldn't find a home for their basketball and other sports.

But now I am beginning to think they were never invited before.

I guess my question is why would Conference USA be more attractive now with UC, UL, Marquette and DePaul leaving then it was in 2001? Is it just a different administration at Marshall.

Most of the Marshall fans' argument seemed to be centered around the FB attendance increase at away games in CUSA and the strength of the lower teams. However, both of those issues would seem to me to lead to fewer Marshall wins.

Yet the champion of Conference USA generally doesn't garner more respect in the polls. I guess Memphis vs MWC champ is better than Mobile vs CUSA runner up, but not worlds better.

In my opinion if I were Marshall, I would have jumped at the chance to go to Conference USA in 2001, but I would be more cautious this time.

There is a cynic in me that wonders if Marshall feels like the MAC has caught up and maybe it will be easier in Conference USA at the top. But still Marshall has won 5 of 6 conference champs and have a great chance again this year.

But the financial arguments, TV arguments and bowl arguments don't seem to wash...unless Marshall feels like that can't maintain their current MAC success. I know CUSA has 5 bowls, but Marshall has been to a bowl game every year they have been in Division 1. How many more games will be on national TV, MUg already has 5 this year. A basketball league of Memphis, Tulsa and the rest might get 2-3 teams in the NCAA, but I doubt any of those teams will compete for a national title.

It isn't the same CUSA it was 2 years ago, it is a much lower version. East Carolina is much worse. USM is a little worse. Adding SMU, Rice and Tulsa is adding three bad FB teams that can't cut it in the WAC.

I think us Herd fans are split 50/50 on moving to CUSA. Count me in the camp that says stay in the MAC. Even a few years ago I was totally against the move to CUSA.

You are correct Marshall was never invited in 2001, because the issue was tabled by the CUSA presidents. There was never an invitation.

I'm one that thinks CUSA is in a downward spiral, and IMO the MAC is much better on the field. Just as I was saying a few years ago, if the product on the field is better, then the recognition will soon follow. And guess what, this season happens. The MAC is gaining steam big time, and CUSA is being left in the dust.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally against a move to CUSA there may be things going on that I don't know about that make it a good move. But what I'm seeing as a casual fan it just doesn't add up. So stay put, and grow with the MAC.

On the other hand, I think if a Marshall move to CUSA with any combination of Toledo, Miami, UCF, BG, NIU would sweeten the deal and then it would be worth moving.

I say the MAC sucks,

If not for MU rasing the bar and making the rest of the conference d1 bottom feeders play catch up, this conversation would never be taking place. The MAC, while having some success this year will never be perceived as being on the same level as CUSA. Perception is everything, more bowl tie ins and more national exposure.

This conference, while having a couple of good teams is also loaded with dregs that can't meet the 15,000 requirement for attendance.

Although it will be a tougher to travel to some of the other schools, I say, screw this $hitty conference, that threw us out once, we have put them on the map, I say debt paid. Let them slink back into 1AA status and play before 12,000 people that really don't care.

:wave:

Do you think the bowl games and national exposure will still be there with UC, UL, Marquette and DePaul leaving? 3 of the 4 are powerhouses of the conference whether it be in FB or BB are going to be gone.

Not sure a Marshall vs Army or Marshall vs East Carolina would be games people would stop what they are doing to watch. :)

Since we're all repeating ourselves, I'll make the same point I did in my first post on this board's predecessor (in 1997, in response to a Herd fan claiming that Marshall would be in the ACC in time for the 2000 season): Don't let the door hit you in the ****** on the way out.

Falcon Frenzy Wrote:Do you think the bowl games and national exposure will still be there with UC, UL, Marquette and DePaul leaving? 3 of the 4 are powerhouses of the conference whether it be in FB or BB are going to be gone.

Not sure a Marshall vs Army or Marshall vs East Carolina would be games people would stop what they are doing to watch. :)

Well, I've heard the pros and cons so much about staying and going that I don't even know what we should do now. But to respond to your post... Army is going Independant and announced this summer they would leave the conference. ECU would create an interest because of the GMAC bowl 2 years ago and also because of the disaster on Nov 14, 1970. Football wise, C-USA would be stronger by adding MU than it is now. Cincinnati has never been ranked in their entire history and we've proven time and again that we're better than UofL. Anyway, Marshall has alot of alumni down south much more than we do up north. Plus there's that revenue issue...

C-USA = with 11 teams and no conference championship game
---------------------
Total Revenue

Falcon Frenzy Wrote:Not sure a Marshall vs Army or Marshall vs East Carolina would be games people would stop what they are doing to watch. :)

The last Marshall vs. East Carolina game sure was!

Having survived one "Done Deal" debacle, I'm not counting on anything. Seems to me Chryst will have a trick or two up his sleeve. He's always seemed prepared for every other situation that confronted the conference.

I'm not nearly as excited about a move to C-USA as I was during the "Done Deal" era - and I was a bit skeptical back then (football only and all).

There are some numbers in C-USA favor:
--fact is if Marshall does go C-USA they would be playing in larger stadiums in front of larger crowds.
--Number of bowls - don't know what the fallout bowl picture will be, but I do believe whatever the number of bowls C-USA winds up with it will still outnumber the bowls leaning toward the MAC. Larger crowds will be the driving factor in this fact as well.

What I don't get about C-USA:
--Closest opponent would be 8 hours away!?! Marshall fans in Hgtn can be at Kent, Akron, Miami, Ohio and Toledo in about half that time. In fact, every MAC stadium is within a 10 hour drive from Htgn. Houston, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, TCU, Rice!?! Those games will require a 16-20 hours drive. It's not a conference designed for convenience. Plus, I'm not exactly sold we're going to see that many visitors in Htgn with the distance C-USA fans would have to travel. However, I do expect more visiting fans at games than that experienced currently, but I don't predict the throngs you see from some Herd posters.

Last, the MAC had a tremendous experience a few weeks ago. Toledo, Marshall and NIU all spanked ranked BCS opponents while Miami wasted CSU and BGSU came close to defeating the Ohio State University. It was a day that automatically and immediately raised the perception of this conference. It was one hell of an accomplishment for a BCS conference let alone one cast into non-bcs serfdom.

It's obvious the MAC is making great strides, and it would be great to grow with this conference. However, for the conference to truly "grow" in the world of college football, something would have to happen to the MAC's 1-A pretenders, and I just don't see that happening. Who knows? Perhaps it shouldn't. And I guess, in the end, that is the reason most Herd fans (not all and perhaps not as big of a majority as some may think) would opt to go to C-USA. However, again, I'm not even going to count this thing "done". There are just too many variables in the air.

Damnit, Chevy! There you go again, pollutin' a perfectly good p!ssing match with common sense.

Thanks.

Army has already announced they are leaving CUSA after the 2004 season to go indy. Tom is dead on when he says Marshall fans are split about 50/50. I'm split myself but I have to come down on the side of moving to CUSA for several reasons.

1. Perception. Is the MAC better than CUSA on the field? Yep. But, go outside of the MAC area and ask folks whether CUSA or the MAC is a better conference. Most will rank CUSA ahead of the MAC. If you don't believe me, look at the Sagarins even though CUSA is having a terrible year and the MAC is having one of its best years ever.

2. Bowls. I don't think CUSA will likely keep all five bowls without Louisville and Cincy. But, I'm highly skeptical of the MAC adding more. Bowls have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the teams. The only thing a bowl organizer cares about is the number of people a team will bring to the game. $$$ for the local economy and all that. When bowl organizers look at a team like BUGS and see home attendance figures of 20k and then look at teams like ECU ,who is having an abysmal year yet had an attendance last week of 33k, guess who they're gonna invite?

3. Future opportunity. Marshall has no desire to remain at its current level. Indeed, when our stadium was built in the early 1990's, and Marshall was still in I-AA, the footers to expand the stadium by adding an upper deck were put in. (I think that would bring capacity to around 55,000. I have serious doubts that any MAC team will ever get a chance to move to a BCS league (assuming the BCS even remains in its current form). Many folks feel that CUSA would better position the Herd for a move to a bigger conference or, in the alternative, that CUSA is better positioned than the MAC to be added to the BCS.

Furthermore, the Big East is a real question mark. Assuming that the ACC offers BC, the Big East is going to offer Cincy and Louisville. But, rumors abound about Pitt and the Big 10. If that ever happened, the Big East might just cease to exist as a conference. Then, you might well see a realignment of eastern schools into an all sports conference rather than the unstable 15 headed monster that is the current Big East. Again, being in CUSA better positions Marshall to take advantage of any such turmoil than does being in the MAC.

4. MAC implosion. UCF wants out of the MAC in the worst possible way. The MAC may well lose 2 or 3 more schools to the attendance requirement. If that happens, the league would be below 12 teams and the MACC is lost unless the MAC invites someone like Middle Tennessee State or Youngstown State.

5. Alumni. Yes, the CUSA teams would be farther away than most MAC teams. But, look at where our alums are based. There are 6 alumni chapters in Florida, 2 in Georgia, 1 in Mississippi and 6 in North Carolina. There are only 3 in Ohio.

I will readily admit that there are good counterarguments to all of the above. Neither am I saying the Marshall is definitely going to CUSA. All of the fall out hinges on the ACC decision regarding BC. If that doesn't happen, nobody goes anywhere.

I'm not sure there won't be more C-USA defections. That would be my biggest worry if I were a Marshall fan. I heard that several C-USA teams are being courted by the Mountain West and the WAC. Seems to me that moving from C-USA to the MWC would be a no-brainer for a football-oriented school.

From what I've been able to gather/been told CUSA will hold five bowls...not the same ones the league has now, but there are plans by several groups for new bowls. CUSA will probably have one of those...while the league may lose the Hawaii bowl.

IF Marshall should join...along with UCF and the other three schools, not much should change with the CUSA TV package -- football wise. The real difference will be hoops. Tulsa solves some of that...but obviously CUSA isn't as strong in hoops under a new configuration. In football, the league may be stronger with the addition of more markets...the smallest of which is Huntington/Charleston which is a 60's makret. And if you look at the standings...UofL and UC...ain't on top...

My opinion,

GS.

Herdon Wrote:I say the MAC sucks,

If not for MU rasing the bar and making the rest of the conference d1 bottom feeders play catch up, this conversation would never be taking place. The MAC, while having some success this year will never be perceived as being on the same level as CUSA. Perception is everything, more bowl tie ins and more national exposure.

This conference, while having a couple of good teams is also loaded with dregs that can't meet the 15,000 requirement for attendance.

Although it will be a tougher to travel to some of the other schools, I say, screw this $hitty conference, that threw us out once, we have put them on the map, I say debt paid. Let them slink back into 1AA status and play before 12,000 people that really don't care.

:wave:

:snore:

Quote:I heard that several C-USA teams are being courted by the Mountain West and the WAC. Seems to me that moving from C-USA to the MWC would be a no-brainer for a football-oriented school.

No offense, but look at the revenues, Bowls and TV packages -- strictly football, because that's what we're talking about -- CUSA has and then compare them to what the MWC has...They're not the same. Same for the WAC. It's beyond me why anyone would think that a CUSA school would move to the WAC. It's just not realistic. The WAC is the conference that is real danger of collapsing.

My opinion,

GS.

Well, I hope Marshall stays.

Herdon Wrote:I say the MAC sucks,

If not for MU rasing the bar and making the rest of the conference d1 bottom feeders play catch up, this conversation would never be taking place. The MAC, while having some success this year will never be perceived as being on the same level as CUSA. Perception is everything, more bowl tie ins and more national exposure.

This conference, while having a couple of good teams is also loaded with dregs that can't meet the 15,000 requirement for attendance.

Although it will be a tougher to travel to some of the other schools, I say, screw this $hitty conference, that threw us out once, we have put them on the map, I say debt paid. Let them slink back into 1AA status and play before 12,000 people that really don't care.

:wave:

have fun :wave:

Quote:Well, I hope Marshall stays.

Well, I hope Marshall leaves.

Just a difference of opinion.

GS.

Marshall fans have some valid reasons for moving to CUSA, but because that league has five bowls instead of the MAC's two shouldn't be one of 'em. What is the matter Herd fans, you think the team can no longer hang with "the new world (MAC) order"? Or worse, don't you believe you can finish above third place in a diluted CUSA?

I don't usually contribute to these sort of rhubarbs, but this whole thing is rather tiresome. Why don't we quit speculating until something concrete is reported?

mcclung Wrote:

Quote:Well, I hope Marshall stays.

Well, I hope Marshall leaves.

Just a difference of opinion.

GS.

We have a few of them, don't we? :)

Well...unfortunately...the BE has decided to push back their decision until December. :rolleyes:

I just want all of this crap to wrap up so our guys can concentrate on play on the field!