Hidden Dragon, Master of Delusion
The New BE is much better than the CUSA fundamentally. The NBE went out and expanded for Football with the second Division 1-A school in New England (UConn), the very powerful second Division 1-A school from Kentucky(Louisville), the second largest Division 1-A school from Ohio (Cinncinati), and a school from the second largest market in Florida (South Florida). Then the cut the weakest program in the Big East (Temple) which was the third Division 1-A program in Pennsylvannia after Pitt and Penn State.
In case you haven't noticed, in most states of regular size there is two BCS programs.... IowaSt/Iowa,OrgeonSt/Oregon...... Pitt/PennSt. Then having Louisville/Kentucky, and Cinncinati/OhioSt fits that profile. UConn is the only BCS program in Conn. Then South Florida is like a TCU, the biggest program in a very large market.
CUSA's expansion is leftover heavy. Marshall is the second school in West Virginia, but that state is too small for two BCS programs. UCF is in a medium sized market with Orlando. UTEP another medium sized market. Those are your better additions. SMU is a second tier program in the Dallas/FTWorth area, and Rice is second tier Houston.
Comparing the NBE, MWC, CUSA, and MAC top to bottom:
NBE:
Syracuse-First Tier NY State
UConn-First Tier Conn.
Rutgers-First Tier New Jersey
WestVA-Fist Tier West Virginia
Pitt-Second Tier Pennsylvania
Cinncy-Second Tier Ohio
Louisville-Second Tier Kentucky
South Florida-First Tier Tampa Market
MWC:
BYU-First Tier Utah
New Mexico-First Tier New Mexico
Wyoming-First Tier Wyoming
UNLV-First Tier Nevada
Utah-Second Tier Utah
ColoradoSt-Second Tier Colorado
Air Force-Service Academy
TCU-First Tier Dallas/Ft Worth Market
SDSU-First Tier SanDiego Market
CUSA:
Memphis-Second Tier Tennesse
Tulane-Second Tier Louisana
Marshall-Second Tier West Virginia
Southern Miss-Third Tier Mississippi
East Carolina-Third Tier North Carolina
UAB-Third Tier Alabama
Tulsa-Third Tier Oklahoma
Houston-First Tier Houston Market
SMU-Second Tier Dallas/FtWorth Market
Rice-Second Tier Houston Market
UCF-Medium Size Market
UTEP-Medium Size Market
MAC:
Northern Ill-Third Tier Illinios
BallSt-Third Tier Indiana
WMU-Third Tier Michigan
CMU-Third Tier Michigan
Bowling Green-Third Tier Ohio
Ohio-Third Tier Ohio
Kent St-First Tier Cleveland/Akron Market
EMU-Second Tier Detroit Market
MiamiU-Second Tier Cinncinatti/Dayton Market
Buffalo-Medium Size Market
Toledo-Medium Size Market
Akron-Medium Size Market
The Big East and the MWC look almost identical with first/second tier programs and I could see the MWC as just as deserving as the Big East to having a BCS bid. But CUSA? CUSA looks just slightly better than the MAC. The only thing CUSA has over the MAC is Memphis. Move them to the Big East and the best bowl of CUSA is the GMAC which is MAC vs. CUSA.
This whole post is void given the assinine comment that Orlando is a "medium" market.
Besides, we all know the MAC and CUSA rival or surpass Big East football. Just ask Pitt last year about it.
The way I see it the 5 real BCS schools are head and should above the rest of the conferences. After that the Mountain West and Big East are about equal and a notch below them is the MAC, C-USA, and WAC all being about equal and the sunbelt being a ways behind them. So to simplify....
5 real BCS >>> Big East = MWC > MAC = C-USA = WAC >> Sun Belt
The Knight Time Wrote:This whole post is void given the assinine comment that Orlando is a "medium" market.
Besides, we all know the MAC and CUSA rival or surpass Big East football. Just ask Pitt last year about it.
If Orlando is a big time market......
Explain to me why it only has one professional sport? Orlando proper is only about 1 million people.
The MAC and CUSA rival each other. Pitt may have lost to Toledo but that doesn't mean the league is on a caliber with the MAC. Not in TV markets, attendance, bowls agreements.........The Big East is big time.
Recruiting was up signifcantly for every school invited to the Big East last year. Even, before it was clear that the Big East was going to keep its BCS bid. Cinncinati, Louisville, South Florida had record classes.
OTOH, recruiting was down for USM and Memphis, while the move to CUSA had zero impact on recruiting for Marshall and UCF.
The Big East will be back, but CUSA after this season won't.
Kit-Cat Wrote:The Knight Time Wrote:This whole post is void given the assinine comment that Orlando is a "medium" market.
Besides, we all know the MAC and CUSA rival or surpass Big East football. Just ask Pitt last year about it.
If Orlando is a big time market......
Explain to me why it only has one professional sport? Orlando proper is only about 1 million people.
The MAC and CUSA rival each other. Pitt may have lost to Toledo but that doesn't mean the league is on a caliber with the MAC. Not in TV markets, attendance, bowls agreements.........The Big East is big time.
Recruiting was up signifcantly for every school invited to the Big East last year. Even, before it was clear that the Big East was going to keep its BCS bid. Cinncinati, Louisville, South Florida had record classes.
OTOH, recruiting was down for USM and Memphis, while the move to CUSA had zero impact on recruiting for Marshall and UCF.
The Big East will be back, but CUSA after this season won't.
Kit Cat, I figure someone as stupid as you would try to analyze UCF's recruiting class. O'Leary purposely wanted OL, and lots of them. When's the last time you've seen a 3 star OL recruiting class?
It's just very funny you talk about Marshall, UCF, Memphis, and USM, when your precious Ohio has much bigger problems than any of those schools.
The Big East will be back? Will Rutgers, USF, Cincy, Temple, and Syracuse fill that void??? Or will Pitt, WVU and UConn bring the Big East to glory. Afterall, we saw last year what national power programs they all are :rolleyes:
BuckeyeStu Wrote:The way I see it the 5 real BCS schools are head and should above the rest of the conferences. After that the Mountain West and Big East are about equal and a notch below them is the MAC, C-USA, and WAC all being about equal and the sunbelt being a ways behind them. So to simplify....
5 real BCS >>> Big East = MWC > MAC = C-USA = WAC >> Sun Belt
That's fair. But the gap between the Big East or Mountain West and the rest of the BCS is larger than the gap between those two leagues and the rest of I-A.
(Except the Sun Belt).
Kit-Cat Wrote:OTOH, recruiting was down for USM and Memphis
Alright...I have to ask where you get your "info"
Exactly how was recruiting for Memphis down? We just had our best recruiting year ever!
Oh, and Orlando probably only has 1 pro team because they were the late blossomers in a fairly saturated state...3 NFL teams...2 NHL teams...2 MLB teams...2 NBA teams.
99Tiger Wrote:Kit-Cat Wrote:OTOH, recruiting was down for USM and Memphis
Alright...I have to ask where you get your "info"
Exactly how was recruiting for Memphis down? We just had our best recruiting year ever!
Oh, and Orlando probably only has 1 pro team because they were the late blossomers in a fairly saturated state...3 NFL teams...2 NHL teams...2 MLB teams...2 NBA teams.
Kit Kat is an idiot. Do not take his posts seriously.
Schadenfreude Wrote:BuckeyeStu Wrote:The way I see it the 5 real BCS schools are head and should above the rest of the conferences. After that the Mountain West and Big East are about equal and a notch below them is the MAC, C-USA, and WAC all being about equal and the sunbelt being a ways behind them. So to simplify....
5 real BCS >>> Big East = MWC > MAC = C-USA = WAC >> Sun Belt
That's fair. But the gap between the Big East or Mountain West and the rest of the BCS is larger than the gap between those two leagues and the rest of I-A.
(Except the Sun Belt).
I disagree wholeheartedly. It's not fair. It's nonsense. There are TEAMS within each of the 5 BCS conferences that are "head and should" (shoulders?) above the rest of the football world. But there are dregs in those leagues as well, and they have no more right to claim BCS status than any other college team in America except that they belonged to a BCS conference before the BCS came to be. Can anyone seriously believe that Temple, for instance, would have been invited to a BCS conference otherwise? I can't.
99Tiger Wrote:Exactly how was recruiting for Memphis down? We just had our best recruiting year ever!
Really?
Wow, I've never heard a fan claim that before...it must be true!
DrTorch Wrote:99Tiger Wrote:Exactly how was recruiting for Memphis down? We just had our best recruiting year ever!
Really?
Wow, I've never heard a fan claim that before...it must be true!
Well, for starters, we haven't been scraping the bottom of the barrel begging players to come here from all over the south. We've quickly been able to compete with the SEC schools for recruits and stole more than a couple from their clutches...we didn't get them all, but we got more than we have in recent history.
A prime example of our increased recruiting prowress is the fact that we were able to compete for the top players in Memphis...we haven't been able to do that in a long time. The local high school coaches would give our program the time of day...that is no longer the case.
Our current coach once told our previous coach that he wasn't recruiting D-1A players...that has changed. I know it's cliche for fans to say they've had their best year recruiting...but ask any Memphis fan...or the coaching staff for that matter..., and they'll honestly tell you the same thing.
This tier system doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I see TCU as first tier.
Is that putting them on a par with Texas and Texas A&M in their own state?
Does this tier system only have to do with the size city your university is located in?
It's messed up.
Let me just say that given the option I would take Toledo out of the MAC and put them in the "New" Big East in a millisecond if that was on the table. It is a step up no matter how depleted they are.
But would I jump at the chance of playing in CUSA? It would be nice to play new schools but it just seems like a risky propostion and no definite return on investment. Anybody really want to play the lower half of CUSA any more than they want to play the bottom half of the MAC? Nope.
99Tiger Wrote:A prime example of our increased recruiting prowress is the fact that we were able to compete for the top players in Memphis...we haven't been able to do that in a long time. The local high school coaches would give our program the time of day...that is no longer the case.
Our current coach once told our previous coach that he wasn't recruiting D-1A players...that has changed. I know it's cliche for fans to say they've had their best year recruiting...but ask any Memphis fan...or the coaching staff for that matter..., and they'll honestly tell you the same thing.
I guess what I said about Memphis' recruiting this year wasn't entirely accurate....Memphis is up this year. According to Phil Steele who averages the recruiting ratings of 8 major recruiting services this is how Memphis has done since 2002.
1.2002-#60th Nationally, 2nd CUSA
2.2003-N/R Nationally, 7th in CUSA
3.2004-#70th Nationally, 6th in CUSA
So, in all reality Memphis had a better class two years ago than this one, and had nothing more than an average class this year.
owen Wrote:This tier system doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I see TCU as first tier.
Is that putting them on a par with Texas and Texas A&M in their own state?
Does this tier system only have to do with the size city your university is located in?
It's messed up.
TCU is the first tier local team in the Dallas/Ft.Worth major market. Now Texas and TexasA&M are first tier for the state of Texas. When there is just two schools in a state in the BCS like PennSt/Pitt, Pitt becomes the second tier team for Pennsylvannia, even though it is the first tier team for Pittsburgh.
Lets say for example Florida:
Florida-First Tier Florida
FloridaSt-First Tier Florida
MiamiFL-First Tier Miami Market
South Florida-First Tier Tampa
UCF-Medium Market
FIU-Second Tier Miami
FAU-Second Tier Miami
While I don't think TCU has reached the stature of Texas/TexasA&M in recruiting, It has the potential of being a MiamiFL.
A look at TCU's recruiting:
2002-#66, 5th in CUSA
2003-#63, 3rd in CUSA
2004-#57, 2nd in CUSA
Steady improvement by TCU. They still need to improve. A National First Tier program should be having top 40 classes. And TCU is moving to the Mountain West.
99Tiger Wrote:A prime example of our increased recruiting prowress is the fact that we were able to compete for the top players in Memphis...we haven't been able to do that in a long time.
Does this mean that the Tigers are finally able to outbid the likes of Ole Miss and Alabama?
Kit-Cat Wrote:owen Wrote:This tier system doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I see TCU as first tier.
Is that putting them on a par with Texas and Texas A&M in their own state?
Does this tier system only have to do with the size city your university is located in?
It's messed up.
TCU is the first tier local team in the Dallas/Ft.Worth major market. Now Texas and TexasA&M are first tier for the state of Texas. When there is just two schools in a state in the BCS like PennSt/Pitt, Pitt becomes the second tier team for Pennsylvannia, even though it is the first tier team for Pittsburgh.
Lets say for example Florida:
Florida-First Tier Florida
FloridaSt-First Tier Florida
MiamiFL-First Tier Miami Market
South Florida-First Tier Tampa
UCF-Medium Market
FIU-Second Tier Miami
FAU-Second Tier Miami
While I don't think TCU has reached the stature of Texas/TexasA&M in recruiting, It has the potential of being a MiamiFL.
A look at TCU's recruiting:
2002-#66, 5th in CUSA
2003-#63, 3rd in CUSA
2004-#57, 2nd in CUSA
Steady improvement by TCU. They still need to improve. A National First Tier program should be having top 40 classes. And TCU is moving to the Mountain West.
This still makes no sense. USF is "first tier" Tampa market? So, you're saying USF controls the Tampa market? That alone is laughable.
The Knight Time Wrote:This still makes no sense. USF is "first tier" Tampa market? So, you're saying USF controls the Tampa market? That alone is laughable.
I'm not saying USF totally controls the Tampa market. Nor am I saying that Miami totally contols the Miami market.
What I am saying is that USF is the top college football program in its market, giving it first tier Tampa status.
HuskieDan Wrote:99Tiger Wrote:A prime example of our increased recruiting prowress is the fact that we were able to compete for the top players in Memphis...we haven't been able to do that in a long time.
Does this mean that the Tigers are finally able to outbid the likes of Ole Miss and Alabama?
I'll just quote GhostGray from the Memphis board...
Quote:Top Football recruits won't come here?
Thats strange......I thought we just inked, Greg Hinds #7 Athlete
in the nation by Rivals.com Offered by Aubrun, Ole Miss, Miss. State, etc.
Carlton Baker......commited to North Carolina. Signed with
Arkansas out of HS.
Joe Doss ...ranked #10 All-purpose Back by Rivals.com
Brandon Pearce......Offers from Ole Miss and Miss. State.
Heath Grant.....offer from Miss. State.
Will Hudgens.....offer from Ole Miss
Earnest Williams offer from Auburn, Ole Miss. Mr. Football 3A
in Tennessee.
Rod Smith......Mr. Football 2A in Tennessee.
Yeah your right......no one wants to come here to play.
We're not yet in a position to get any and all recruits from the grips of SEC teams? ...even I'm not
that delusional. :rolleyes: But we pretty much split recruits with the SEC teams when we made the list of competitors. Gray did leave Kensucky off of the Doss recruiting...but now I'm just nitpicking. (edit) Oh yeah, Hinds was #6...more nitpicking.
Really Kit-Cat...Steele listed us 6th in CUSA recruiting...Athlon listed us 3rd. I would say that I guess we'll see in 3 or so years, but since the current CUSA will no longer exist, I guess we'll just have to argue the point until we're blue in the face!
Kit-Cat Wrote:The Knight Time Wrote:This still makes no sense. USF is "first tier" Tampa market? So, you're saying USF controls the Tampa market? That alone is laughable.
I'm not saying USF totally controls the Tampa market. Nor am I saying that Miami totally contols the Miami market.
What I am saying is that USF is the top college football program in its market, giving it first tier Tampa status.
So, there must be another mystery college team in Orlando.
Since, you labeled us a medium market?
Kit-Cat has little to no basis for labeling markets.
I'm still trying to figure out how Memphis is not a market onto itself...
