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I'm a new member on this board, but I've been a "lurker" for quite some time. In fact, I have spent an innordinate amount of time the last few months reading this board, CUSAbbs, the CUSA board on Killerfrogs and that parent board as well.

It started innocently enough - looking for information on TCU (as first the appropriate opponent for Miami in the GMAC and then to enjoy their squirming as they defended their chickening out) - but soon morphed into a voyeristic fascination with all the angst around confernce realignments. I liken it to passing the scene of a horrible auto accident - you don't really want to look, but you can't take your eyes off of it.

For a while this board was a refuge - alas that time appears to have ended. Sure, there was the expected "flaming" such as CONFDOA from the MAC loyalists and the "your going to lose half your programs" rants from the herdsters and kniggets. But, it was fairly low key and and, I feel, basically a sitution where most A) agreed to disagree and B) felt their team and conference was going to be better off.

Well since the conference angst has made it here I thought I would weigh in with a couple observations. First to qualify my bias - I'm a huge Miami fan and a MAC supporter. You might think that would be obvious since it is a MAC board, but looking at many of the posters lately it probably is important to note.

Observations on the CUSA, MWC and BE realignments:

1) The speculative arguments on potential members are an absolute waste of time. Besides everyone having their own personal opinion, each attempts to "represent' their intepretation of their schools best interests in making their arguments. I mean seriously, when you see a thread with over 50 posts arguing between LaTech, Toledo, Temple or NTSU being added to CUSA you have to ask yourself - are we really going to get a consensus here?

2) Fans of schools that have moved fall into two categories A) those with no regrets and B) those that are unsure if they made the right move. The first category is represented by UC, USF and UL. The second category is represented by Marshall and TCU. The difference is easy to spot by answering the following questions: Which teams message boards are full of realignment threads? Which teams said boards have thread after thread of their own fans arguing the pros and cons of the move? and most telling Which teams are spending time on other boards trying to convince people that their team made the right/wrong choice and BTW you should join us?

Yes, I did leave UCF out. Due to their newness and lack of tradition,movement is fairly irrelevant. They simply need to establish some roots. Plus, it will probably irritate The Knight Time - and that's a bonus.

3) The simple fact that you're on a confernce related message board indictes that you are a big fan of your team and in most cases support the conference your in or moving to. As fans we are all guilty of overrating the relative strengths of our own teams and the conference we're associated with, especially in comparison to other "like" teams and conferences. Again this begs a question - If I post a message on another conference board that suggests their conference isn't as good as ours am I going to convince anyone I'm right?

4) Many of the posts I have seen are from a very narrow perspective i.e. basketball only or football only. This again makes the whole excercise quite futile.

5) Many of the individuals postings represent schools that simply have no other options due to geography or politics. The MAC and CUSA are full of these schools, so I question the logic of debating this on a conference bulletin board. If you want to know what fans of a particular team think about a potential invite ask them on their own board.

Personally, I think that the changes are far from over, The current realignments, BCS issues, NCAA regulations and financial realities will precipitate another major wave in 3-5 years. I believe CUSA, the MAC, the BE and the MWC will all be affected by these changes. Really, only time will tell who was right and wrong - all esle is just speculation.
Oh, great, just what we needed--somebody wants to bring reason and logic into the arguement! Where do you think you are, Stifler? We'll have none of that around here! 05-nono

03-wink

(Nice post and welcome aboard, BTW.)
:wave:
I tend to agree with you. A lot of MACsters somehow think that the MAC is the next BCS conference while too many Herd fans think the MAC will die. I have speculated as have you that the conference realignments aren't over although, after this recent spasm, I don't think anyone's in a hurry to do it. A lot depends on whether or not the NCAA actually enforces the 15k rule and, if they do, will any MAC teams not make it? If they don't, how will the loss of a championship game affect the conference?

As for CUSA, while their television package will certainly be reduced by the realignment, I seriously doubt that it will be as drastic a reduction as some think (wish?)

Finally, from the perspective of a Herd fan, and from talking to lots of Herd fans, they seem to be split by age regarding the move. Younger fans tend to favor the move while fans who can remember when Marshall was in the MAC the first time tend to be more skeptical.

P.S. Reason and logic are, as axeme indicated, strongly discouraged on this board. 03-razz
C-USA is not going to die, but their TV contract will probably take a hit (as will most conference TV contracts, probably). Programs like Tulsa have taken huge strides, and I expect they will continue to be competitive in C-USA. I expect Marshall and UCF to compete for C-USA championships, and probably end up playing MAC teams in bowl games.

The MAC may drop a few teams and lose it's championship game, but the conference isn't going anywhere, and the improvements in the quality of play in football and basketball are likely here to stay. All you have to do is look at recruiting for this year to figure that out -- we're going toe-to-toe with BCS programs and "stealing" kids. That wouldn't have happened five years ago.

I would not be at all surprised to see a few C-USA teams added to the Big East at some point before 2010 -- maybe UCF.
What amuses me with all of this speculation is that the fans act like they are the schools. You know, like they will personally be financially impacted by the moves.

For the most part, I have stayed at a distance from everything from a UCF standpoint because, to be quite honest, after the BE chose USF and not UCF, everything else felt equally second place. I could care less which conference we're in even though personally I preferred the MAC because I could actually drive to the games. Now, the only game I'll have a chance of seeing is Marshall.

I have been pretty put off by the slamming of one conference over another and already said in another post that there is no difference between C-USA and MAC except one is north and the other south. That is how I really feel about it.
While we're sharing our feelings here, 03-wink my prefences for Kent would actually be to drop football, stay in te MAC for everything else and pour our extra resources wasted on our football program lo these many years into basketball: more tv, higher coaches' salaries so we can retain the great coaches we get, more travel to bigger name opponents, etc. and try to become the Gonzaga of the MAC.
Many of my Flash friends would heartily disagree, though. I think it would be the best thing our university could do: we are already inarguably (that's for eck 03-wink )the best all-sports school in the MAC now and for the last 5 years and we would be able to do even more onthose fronts without the incredible financial and competitive drain that football has had on KSU for the last, oh,50+ years minus the brief Don James era.
Now can I have a hug? :wave:
Econoknight Wrote:I have been pretty put off by the slamming of one conference over another and already said in another post that there is no difference between C-USA and MAC except one is north and the other south. That is how I really feel about it.
Right now, I think that MAC football is a little better than CUSA football. I don't think the new Big East will be much, if at all , better than either conference on balance. The MWC is getting much stonger though.
axeme Wrote:While we're sharing our feelings here, 03-wink my prefences for Kent would actually be to drop football, stay in te MAC for everything else and pour our extra resources wasted on our football program lo these many years into basketball: more tv, higher coaches' salaries so we can retain the great coaches we get, more travel to bigger name opponents, etc. and try to become the Gonzaga of the MAC.
As insane as it may seem at the moment, I have long advocated a similiar plan for NIU. Obviously, with the resurgence of the football program under Novak, it's basically unthinkable for now.

However, for a school like Kent, with such a strong hoops program and a feeble football program, I would think it'd be a no-brainer.

Guest

All these conference switching rumors involving Miami, Toledo and Northern Illinois are precisely that, rumors. The message from the MAC and each of these teams has been consistent and the same, "we are content being a member of the MAC and continue to support efforts to make a good conference even better."

We all need to be brutally honest. Many of us live under the false delusion that some of the MAC schools are destined to be on par with schools in the "big" conferences like the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10, etc. Folks, it ain't never going to happen. The priority of all of our schools is to be high quality and well-respected regional academic institutions. Nothing in the strategic mission of our 12 schools says anything about becoming superior bastions of football or men's basketball. The fact is the MAC is not on par with the "big" conferences. What it is though is arguably the nation's premier mid-major conference. And what has continued to happen is a steady rise in the caliber of many of our football programs to the point that some of us can compete head-on with the "big" teams. But lets not fool ourselves. Our schools don't have the multi-million dollars available to support our football and basketball programs. We don't have 60,000 plus football seating capacity where it is the exception, not the norm, to not be sold out each game. We don't have the capability to pay our head football coach and basketball coach north of $500 K a year. Etc....

This is all OK. The MAC is a fine conference that keeps on getting better. With changes to the BCS and the success our conference has had in football, I'm 100% convinced we are going to get better TV coverage and more and better bowls.

There is no stigma being part of the MAC. The MAC is the right conference home for all of us. And think about this....if the NCAA does ever enforce the 15,000 rule in football, then the "weak" sisters won't make the cut and a stronger core of Miami, Bowling Green, Toledo, Northern Illinois and Western Michigan will be left. We can either go shopping for 4 or 5 other similarly high quality programs to join us or collectively shop ourselves. In the end it all comes out positive.
niu85alum Wrote:All these conference switching rumors involving Miami, Toledo and Northern Illinois are precisely that, rumors.
Riddle me this...When has there been a Northern Illinois to CUSA rumor?

:rofl:

Guest

There were plenty in November and December. Like all the rest involving Miami and Toledo, they were 100% baseless.

Obviously I'm biased, but the most desirable catches in the MAC for anybody outside to consider is Miami, Northern Illinois and Toledo --- and in that order. Hence the basis for baseless rumors.
Tiger,

I've never heard any NIU to CUSA rumors. There were some fans that were frustrated with the MAC after a 10-2 record this past year with no bowl game. Back in November, we may have wished we played in CUSA with their five bowl tie-ins. Like most MAC schools we'll hold our breath to see where and when all this realignment ends, and go from there.
niu85alum Wrote:There were plenty in November and December. Like all the rest involving Miami and Toledo, they were 100% baseless.

Obviously I'm biased, but the most desirable catches in the MAC for anybody outside to consider is Miami, Northern Illinois and Toledo --- and in that order. Hence the basis for baseless rumors.
Well, I have never heard a NIU to CUSA rumor from the CUSA end of things. You could probably find a post or two where a fan said "Why not NIU?" but that doesn't even qualify as a rumor. I would disagree with your rankings...I would rank the desirability of the programs as such: 1a. Toledo 1b. Miami (OH) 2. Bowling Green 3. NIU. Why? Location and long-term success.

At this point I would agree that most of it is baseless rumor...except Toledo.
1. They haven't released a public "we're not considering CUSA" statement.
2. Conference officials don't randomly show up at games. There was some assessment being done, and that's type of stuff is not done without the school being in on it.

Now, before the typical MAC response comes out...I'm not saying Toledo is leaving, but there are options to weigh and they would be doing their program a disservice if they didn't at least look at the options available to them. Toledo may very well decide the MAC is the place to be, or CUSA may very well decide that La Tech (oh, please no) is the best geographic fit and go that route. I personally think Toledo is the best option for CUSA...but I realize that doesn't necessarily mean that CUSA is the best option for Toledo. Somebody making more money that I am will make that decision.
You MUST be talking about conferences looking to add football-only schools.
Has anyone confirmed the rumor that CUSA officials were at UT? My understanding was that this was baseless rumor mongering.
It depends.
If UT were to go to CUSA, then they were there.
If UT refuses, then they were never there.
Reality is flexible.

Guest

Flipper Wrote:Has anyone confirmed the rumor that CUSA officials were at UT? My understanding was that this was baseless rumor mongering.
Sentries were posted at the Toledo airport, bus terminal and train depot on the lookout for any C-USA officials. They have either been captured or there is nothing to report. I opt for the later.
Not a bad idea axe. But, if Kent moves football $$ into hoops, I don't think we'll be interested in a one bid conference.
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