CSNbbs

Harris simultaneously babbles and beats a dead horse: <a href='http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040418/COLUMNIST09/40418002/-1/SPORTS' target='_blank'>http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...18002/-1/SPORTS</a>

That is the most idiotic thing I've read in a long time. I am now dumber for having read it and may God have mercy on his soul.

NIURedBlack Wrote:That is the most idiotic thing I've read in a long time. I am now dumber for having read it and may God have mercy on his soul.

:rofl: :rofl:

Harris just made my ****** list.

He may never get off it, either.

Don't worry, he'll write something complimentary about BG soon per editorial policy.

I agree that was a TERRIBLE article.

Man, it seems to me you guys are being a little tough on this guy just for writing his opinion.

Who knows, maybe Toledo is still on the radar screen. They saw what a mistake Marshall made a couple of years ago by leaking stuff out about it and how bad that turned out. You never know.

C-USA is a better basketball conference than the MAC even without Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and Marquette? What has Harris been drinking? And if C-USA were better, why would Toledo want to go there when it's now going on 25 years since they last won a MAC championship?

He's right.

You guys missed the boat. You should have shown some interest in CUSA instead of staying in the soon-to-be-eight-team MAC.

It would have been nice to continue the rivalry with Toledo, but you guys have made your choice. Now you can live with it.

I think you are in for a big disappointment by not leaving the MAC. Toledo had the potential to grow and do better.

Just when we thought KK had this one locked in every week, we have a new contender.

LongtimeFan Wrote:C-USA is a better basketball conference than the MAC even without Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and Marquette?

And St. Louis? And Charlotte?

It is difficult to put into words how dumb that column was.

If the MAC passed out an annual "Chuck Landon Award for Editorial Excellence," Harris would have sealed up a lifetime achievement award with that puppy.

Incidentally, this is how Jeff Sagarin would have ranked Conference USA Lite and a Marshall-less MAC against other Division I conferences during the past three years:

[code:1]
2001-02:

&nbsp; 1 &nbsp;SOUTHEASTERN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;84.14 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;84.00 &nbsp;( &nbsp;1) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 2 &nbsp;PACIFIC-10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;83.28 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;82.39 &nbsp;( &nbsp;3) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp; 3 &nbsp;ATLANTIC COAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;82.43 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;82.96 &nbsp;( &nbsp;2) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;9
&nbsp; 4 &nbsp;BIG TEN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;81.68 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;81.35 &nbsp;( &nbsp;5) &nbsp; &nbsp; 11
&nbsp; 5 &nbsp;BIG 12 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;81.22 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;81.59 &nbsp;( &nbsp;4) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 6 &nbsp;BIG EAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;80.69 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;80.43 &nbsp;( &nbsp;6) &nbsp; &nbsp; 14
&nbsp; 7 &nbsp;MOUNTAIN WEST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;79.61 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;79.05 &nbsp;( &nbsp;8) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;8
&nbsp; 8 &nbsp;ATLANTIC 10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;77.08 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;77.07 &nbsp;( &nbsp;9) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 9 &nbsp;WESTERN ATHLETIC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;76.24 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;76.32 &nbsp;( 10) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp;10 &nbsp;Conference USA Lite &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;75.39
&nbsp;11 &nbsp;Mid-American &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;74.30 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;12 &nbsp;HORIZON &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;73.95 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;73.47 &nbsp;( 14) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;9
&nbsp;13 &nbsp;MISSOURI VALLEY &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;73.48 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;73.71 &nbsp;( 13) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp;14 &nbsp;SOUTHERN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;73.44 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;73.26 &nbsp;( 15) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp;15 &nbsp;BIG WEST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;73.21 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;72.85 &nbsp;( 16) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10

2002-03:

&nbsp; 1 &nbsp;BIG 12 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;83.62 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;83.69 &nbsp;( &nbsp;1) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 2 &nbsp;SOUTHEASTERN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;83.51 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;83.66 &nbsp;( &nbsp;2) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 3 &nbsp;ATLANTIC COAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;82.97 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;83.26 &nbsp;( &nbsp;3) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;9
&nbsp; 4 &nbsp;BIG EAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;82.33 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;82.63 &nbsp;( &nbsp;4) &nbsp; &nbsp; 14
&nbsp; 5 &nbsp;BIG TEN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;81.92 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;81.56 &nbsp;( &nbsp;5) &nbsp; &nbsp; 11
&nbsp; 6 &nbsp;PACIFIC-10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;80.55 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;80.64 &nbsp;( &nbsp;6) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp; 7 &nbsp;MOUNTAIN WEST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;78.73 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;78.68 &nbsp;( &nbsp;8) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;8
&nbsp; 8 &nbsp;ATLANTIC 10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;76.92 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;76.79 &nbsp;( &nbsp;9) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 9 &nbsp;Conference USA Lite &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;76.39
&nbsp;10 &nbsp;Mid-American &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;75.32 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;11 &nbsp;HORIZON &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;75.24 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;75.39 &nbsp;( 10) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;9
&nbsp;12 &nbsp;WESTERN ATHLETIC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;75.06 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;74.23 &nbsp;( 14) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp;13 &nbsp;WEST COAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;74.30 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;74.75 &nbsp;( 12) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;8
&nbsp;14 &nbsp;SUN BELT &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;74.10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;74.13 &nbsp;( 15) &nbsp; &nbsp; 11
&nbsp;15 &nbsp;MISSOURI VALLEY &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;73.89 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;74.49 &nbsp;( 13) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10

2003-04:

&nbsp; 1 &nbsp;ATLANTIC COAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;87.31 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;86.98 &nbsp;( &nbsp;1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;9
&nbsp; 2 &nbsp;SOUTHEASTERN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;82.71 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;82.76 &nbsp;( &nbsp;2) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 3 &nbsp;BIG 12 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;82.42 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;82.05 &nbsp;( &nbsp;4) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp; 4 &nbsp;BIG EAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;82.21 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;82.21 &nbsp;( &nbsp;3) &nbsp; &nbsp; 14
&nbsp; 5 &nbsp;BIG TEN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;80.09 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;80.25 &nbsp;( &nbsp;5) &nbsp; &nbsp; 11
&nbsp; 6 &nbsp;WESTERN ATHLETIC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;78.18 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;78.01 &nbsp;( &nbsp;9) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp; 7 &nbsp;MOUNTAIN WEST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;78.15 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;78.42 &nbsp;( &nbsp;8) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;8
&nbsp; 8 &nbsp;PACIFIC-10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;77.83 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;78.51 &nbsp;( &nbsp;7) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp; 9 &nbsp;ATLANTIC 10 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;77.55 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;77.72 &nbsp;( 10) &nbsp; &nbsp; 12
&nbsp;10 &nbsp;Conference USA Lite &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;75.51
&nbsp;11 &nbsp;MISSOURI VALLEY &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;75.19 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;75.30 &nbsp;( 11) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp;12 &nbsp;WEST COAST &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;74.63 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;75.09 &nbsp;( 12) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;8
&nbsp;13 &nbsp;COLONIAL &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;73.58 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;73.15 &nbsp;( 13) &nbsp; &nbsp; 10
&nbsp;14 &nbsp;HORIZON &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;73.42 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;73.03 &nbsp;( 15) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;9
&nbsp;15 &nbsp;Mid-American &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;= &nbsp;73.07
[/code:1]

Maybe Harris should read this forum. :wave:

Didn't I have the post of the Orlando Sent. article that C-USA ADs recommended UTEP?

Maybe Harris was reading the C-USA forum.

Quote: C-USA is a better basketball conference than the MAC even without Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and Marquette.

This guy obviously knows nothing about basketball. Toledo may decide to change conferences someday, but I hope to god it isn't because this hack thinks CUSA-lite has a better basketball conference. That writer couldn't find his butt with two hands and a flashlight if there were bells attached to it. I hope he knows more about football than basketball, because he isn't impressing me too much with his basketball knowledge.

Schadenfreude Wrote:

LongtimeFan Wrote:C-USA is a better basketball conference than the MAC even without Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and Marquette?

And St. Louis? And Charlotte?

It is difficult to put into words how dumb that column was.

If the MAC passed out an annual "Chuck Landon Award for Editorial Excellence," Harris would have sealed up a lifetime achievement award with that puppy.

Incidentally, this is how Jeff Sagarin would have ranked Conference USA Lite and a Marshall-less MAC against other Division I conferences during the past three years:

[code:1]
2001-02:

  1  SOUTHEASTERN            =  84.14      84.00  (  1)     12
  2  PACIFIC-10              =  83.28      82.39  (  3)     10
  3  ATLANTIC COAST          =  82.43      82.96  (  2)      9
  4  BIG TEN                 =  81.68      81.35  (  5)     11
  5  BIG 12                  =  81.22      81.59  (  4)     12
  6  BIG EAST                =  80.69      80.43  (  6)     14
  7  MOUNTAIN WEST           =  79.61      79.05  (  8)      8
  8  ATLANTIC 10             =  77.08      77.07  (  9)     12
  9  WESTERN ATHLETIC        =  76.24      76.32  ( 10)     10
 10  Conference USA Lite     =  75.39
 11  Mid-American            =  74.30      
 12  HORIZON                 =  73.95      73.47  ( 14)      9
 13  MISSOURI VALLEY         =  73.48      73.71  ( 13)     10
 14  SOUTHERN                =  73.44      73.26  ( 15)     12
 15  BIG WEST                =  73.21      72.85  ( 16)     10

2002-03:

  1  BIG 12                  =  83.62      83.69  (  1)     12
  2  SOUTHEASTERN            =  83.51      83.66  (  2)     12
  3  ATLANTIC COAST          =  82.97      83.26  (  3)      9
  4  BIG EAST                =  82.33      82.63  (  4)     14
  5  BIG TEN                 =  81.92      81.56  (  5)     11
  6  PACIFIC-10              =  80.55      80.64  (  6)     10
  7  MOUNTAIN WEST           =  78.73      78.68  (  8)      8
  8  ATLANTIC 10             =  76.92      76.79  (  9)     12
  9  Conference USA Lite     =  76.39
 10  Mid-American            =  75.32      
 11  HORIZON                 =  75.24      75.39  ( 10)      9
 12  WESTERN ATHLETIC        =  75.06      74.23  ( 14)     10
 13  WEST COAST              =  74.30      74.75  ( 12)      8
 14  SUN BELT                =  74.10      74.13  ( 15)     11
 15  MISSOURI VALLEY         =  73.89      74.49  ( 13)     10

2003-04:

  1  ATLANTIC COAST          =  87.31      86.98  (  1)      9
  2  SOUTHEASTERN            =  82.71      82.76  (  2)     12
  3  BIG 12                  =  82.42      82.05  (  4)     12
  4  BIG EAST                =  82.21      82.21  (  3)     14
  5  BIG TEN                 =  80.09      80.25  (  5)     11
  6  WESTERN ATHLETIC        =  78.18      78.01  (  9)     10
  7  MOUNTAIN WEST           =  78.15      78.42  (  8)      8
  8  PACIFIC-10              =  77.83      78.51  (  7)     10
  9  ATLANTIC 10             =  77.55      77.72  ( 10)     12
 10  Conference USA Lite     =  75.51
 11  MISSOURI VALLEY         =  75.19      75.30  ( 11)     10
 12  WEST COAST              =  74.63      75.09  ( 12)      8
 13  COLONIAL                =  73.58      73.15  ( 13)     10
 14  HORIZON                 =  73.42      73.03  ( 15)      9
 15  Mid-American            =  73.07
[/code:1]

Well based on your comparison the New CUSA is a better BBAll league than the MAC.

Quote: Well based on your comparison the New CUSA is a better BBAll league than the MAC.

Wait! We need to add Marshall's rating to CUSA-Lite and subtract it from the Sam Adams' MAC. After a quick calculation in my head, here are the adjusted ratings:

80.2 MAC
69.9 CUSA-Lite

God forbid this guy write an article stating his opinion. How dare he insult your opinions, and have his OWN?

The fact is that many people throughout the country don't view the MAC as the staple of perfection as many of you people do.

Take a breath, step back, and relax.

Good Lord.

Thunder Wrote:Well based on your comparison the New CUSA is a better BBAll league than the MAC.

Barely.

Okie Chippewa Wrote:

Quote: Well based on your comparison the New CUSA is a better BBAll league than the MAC.

Wait! We need to add Marshall's rating to CUSA-Lite and subtract it from the Sam Adams' MAC. After a quick calculation in my head, here are the adjusted ratings:

80.2 MAC
69.9 CUSA-Lite

Cute.

But I did adjust for Marshall.

The Knight Time Wrote:God forbid this guy write an article stating his opinion. How dare he insult your opinions, and have his OWN?

The fact is that many people throughout the country don't view the MAC as the staple of perfection as many of you people do.

Take a breath, step back, and relax.

Good Lord.

That column was the worst thing to come out of Toledo since Jamie Farr started wearing nylons.

I think the column has Jamie beat.Where has this guy been?It's not so much the opinion,but the MAC made its' unity statement before the weekend and this article is out on Sunday.Great reporting (not)and timed to print immediately after the spring game. Bring back the Daybreak Dispatch.

Boca Rocket Wrote:I think the column has Jamie beat.Where has this guy been?It's not so much the opinion,but the MAC made its' unity statement before the weekend and this article is out on Sunday.Great reporting (not)and timed to print immediately after the spring game. Bring back the Daybreak Dispatch.

These are my grievances:

1. The idea that joining Conference USA would make financial sense for Toledo is at best speculative and at worst misinformed.

2. The idea that the MAC is "not even close" to Conference USA Lite in basketball is horsepucky.

3. Harris flips through the Dallas Morning News, "learns" Toledo is being considered for Conference USA* -- and that's it? Isn't he the least bit embarassed that The Blade has done so little reporting on the subject, that the people of Northwest Ohio have to learn the latest on this third hand from the Dallas Morning News? Did it ever occur to him to pick up the phone and call... somebody? Conference USA? The MAC? The Toledo AD's office?

4. And, to top off No. 3 -- to get it wrong? To complete miss the fact that Texas-El Paso is very much on track to be No. 12? To miss the MAC news release proclaiming league unity?

5. I fail to see -- as Harris apparently does -- what Toledo could accomplish in Conference USA that it could not accomplish in the MAC. Miami was the highest-ranked one-loss team in non-BCS history. The MAC has put two teams in the final Top 25 polls twice, something no other non-BCS league has done once. One can point to the bowl games -- but it looks like the MAC is gradually catching up here.

So those are five** big reasons why that column sucked rocks.

But set it all aside, and this is what really gets me: He never once mentioned Bowling Green.

He writes a whole column that, in essence, calls for placing the future of the MAC seriously in doubt. If Toledo were to leave the MAC, it could permanently harm Bowling Green athletics and one of the great sporting traditions of Northwest Ohio: The annual Bowling Green-Toledo football game.

Yet Harris ignored all this -- and, in ignoring it, he ignored the concerns of a significant slice of his audience.

This is the analogy I made on ay-ziggy-zoomba.com earlier today:

Picture Toledo Mayor Jack Ford announcing a fancy new plan for handling municipal solid waste by buying land in the city of Oregon and developing it into a landfill.

Now picture The Blade fawning all over that plan without bothering to even mention the word "Oregon."

That's what Harris did today.

And it really makes me cranky.

----

* Supposedly. I didn't see the Dallas Morning News piece, but my guess is the idea that Toledo was being considered all goes back to Doug Smock's item in the West Virginia paper he works for... and he may have misinterpreted what was wishful thinking on the part of certain people associated with Marshall.

** No. 5 added after an edit of this post.