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Im getting worried.....

THe MAC looks vulnerable right now.....The big east shake up and the growth of CUSA makes poaching a team or two from our conference seem like a plausible scenario.

I see fans upset with the MAC (I flamed early this week....now I see Toledo fans flaming) Are we upset with the MAC, the MAC leadership, specific individuals, or just circumstances?

My worry is that as we get better...as the conference gets better, we start looking ripe for the plucking. CUSA already got Marshall (no matter what you feel about the school, program, or any other issues, deap down you know that they were a conference draw) My fear is that if we lose anyone else, especially those schools that are currenly strong, (which would obviously be the ones that BEAST or CUSA would want) then the entire conference could weaken substantially ..or worse yet, fall completely apart. It sounds like many of the schools are looking for options, or at least open to looking.

The best thing about this conference is the fact that we have eachother...all being in the same mid-major boat and all looking to climb out of it...Chat boards like this often show how centered we are on that point. DO any of us really think that we would be better off apart form eachother...or does the problem lie with better management of the conference...or are we just so foreign to the idea of success that we have no idea how to handle that we have five bowls and cant figure out who to be ranting at so we have turned on the conference and eachother.

Where does everyone see this conference if five years?
in five years, taking into account the cycles of winning and losing. i see Ball State and Buffalo in the MAC Championship. Marshall will have come back with the ultimate demise of the CUSA and NIU, Toledo, and BGSU will be fighting not to be bottom feeders
Houston, we have a problem. 04-drinky

Seriously, the MAC is in the best position it's ever been BY FAR.

The bar has been raised, Chryst is doing a great job with football, and some big things are coming for the MAC.

I look for the MAC to be a COMPLETELY different conference in 4-5 years...more like the current C-USA, only stronger, because of a more efficient and managable travel cost structure.

I think schools like Miami, NIU, Toledo, BG, etc. would be crazy to go to C-USA. The MAC is a great place to be right now.
huskiealum03 Wrote:in five years, taking into account the cycles of winning and losing. i see Ball State and Buffalo in the MAC Championship. Marshall will have come back with the ultimate demise of the CUSA and NIU, , and BGSU will be fighting not to be bottom feeders.
One correction.
hopefully CUSA is done reconfiguring for a while. 12 teams, all sports, no partial members, two divisions, 5 bowls. time to build on some rivalries and get the tv deal worked out. very similar to the MAC, except that the MAC is more geographically compact. that has its good sides and its bad sides. best of luck to the MAC, best of luck to CUSA. F the BCS.
The future of the MAC depends on a couple things. Do any other conferences poach more teams and can current MAC teams raise the level of competition.

The future is really in the hands of Rick Chryst and each school's athletic department. The conference needs to keep improving the things that make schools *want* to stay. Keep improving the TV package, keep lobbying for bowl games, figure out ways to help teams schedule top opponents, promote the league.
It's also up to the schools. ADs need to promote the hell out of their teams, fill the seats and do whatever they can to improve competitiveness.

If these things don't happen, expect bad things to happen to the MAC.

-Dan
The MAC ain't going nowhere.

My crystal ball says that in five years the conference will be stronger than ever. I don't think the same will be said for Convict-USA. 03-razz
huskiealum03 Wrote:in five years, taking into account the cycles of winning and losing. i see Ball State and Buffalo in the MAC Championship.
Are you talking about football? 04-drinky 04-drinky 04-drinky
Photodan Wrote:The future of the MAC depends on a couple things. Do any other conferences poach more teams and can current MAC teams raise the level of competition.
All MAC members need to worry about how to make the conference better rather than looking toward dying conferences like CUSA. What we have going right now is great. We have five bowl games this year, members committed to improvement, and lots of national exposure. I don't really see why anyone would be unhappy with the conference. Five MAC teams in a bowl game? That's not something to be upset about.
I think we are going to see huge improvements from the bottom feeders. Akron was a step away this year from being amongst the MAC elite, and traditionally we were bottom feeders. Bufallo and EMU have shown some improvement, while Ohio and Kent have a lots of potential. I think the MAC will be fine, and its best days are ahead.
I couldnt agree more that the mac is in the position to be a great conference in a couple of years, but i think its easy to say the conference is experiencing some major growing pains right now. The problem with the mac is the bottom feeders--we have some of the worst d-1 football schools in the country--you cant be a completely respected conference when you have teams that are absolutly horrible. I think confirming everyones loyaylty last year to the mac was crucial in where exactly this conference is going to go. It seems as if The UT BOARD is VERY upset with some of the actions by the mac execs. Frankly fols--for UT to say they wonder about staying in the mac yesterday as they did in the blade is absolutely HUGE---that must mean they are pretty serious when they say that--they have NEVER really said anything to that extent before. He also said it looks like the door is open to other conferences at ut. We'll have to see if its just talk or what--but i really dont think we'd have anywhere to go that would ut would fit in so well other than the mac.
toledophisher Wrote:It seems as if The UT BOARD is VERY upset with some of the actions by the mac execs.  Frankly fols--for UT to say they wonder about staying in the mac yesterday as they did in the blade  is absolutely HUGE---that must mean they are pretty serious when they say that--they have NEVER really said anything to that extent before.
Or, it could be that one board member's ****** hurts.

I wouldn't trust John Harris to know the difference. This is, after all, the same Blade columnist who declared Toledo would be great for Conference USA because it could deliver the Detroit market.

03-lol

Guest

toledophisher Wrote:Frankly fols--for UT to say they wonder about staying in the mac yesterday as they did in the blade is absolutely HUGE---that must mean they are pretty serious when they say that--they have NEVER really said anything to that extent before. He also said it looks like the door is open to other conferences at ut.
Even more than that, when other conferences have come calling UT has always kept it quiet, even when aspects were already public. Despite Harris being an idiot and blowing it out of proportion, the fact that a UT official would go on record as saying that is significant.

Btw, the ****** joke wasn't even remotely funny the first time, even less so with repetition.
Oddball Wrote:Even more than that, when other conferences have come calling UT has always kept it quiet, even when aspects were already public. Despite Harris being an idiot and blowing it out of proportion, the fact that a UT official would go on record as saying that is significant.
.
So what you folks are saying is that the Toledo BOT is trying to lay the groundwork for making a decision to leave the MAC*. A decision that will be unpopular w/ enough people that they want to do some pre-emptive work.

If Toledo has a way of moving onward and upward, I don't resent that (Students who can read would by my first suggestion, but I digress...)

But, blaming it on Chryst and/or the MAC is poor form. This is what I take exception to. Not every decision will benefit every school equally. Chryst inherited some messes from Ippoliti as well, and maneuvered through those.

As for U[sic]Toledo...do what you must, but don't blame Chryst for your decisions.

*Now for the interesting stuff. I would have to speculate as I wrote before, that Toledo and the Big East are in some sort of courting phase. I would expect that the Big East would look to get to 12 teams, w/ Memphis coming on. ECU has been mentioned, but right now I don't see them bringing much to anybody. Perhaps Skippy will change that.
If this is correct, that means the BE is looking for 1 more. Who will that be?

Marshall? Already passed on once, but this would be a new look BE. Good, heated rivalries exist w/ WVU, Pitt and now Toledo. Will the Ft Worth Bowl see a fight as Marshall is auditioning? (It always comes back to pro-wrestling!)

Ohio? Good location. I'm sure UCincy would love to have the flagship university in their conference.

UCF? A good choice IMO. I've always thought the BE was eyeing them. Better get some wins though.

Miami (OH)? Good tradition, winning teams. But the BE has CIncy covered, and Miami's attendance isn't grand.

Temple? An all-sports deal may interest the BE, but Temple football still has no signs of improvement.

Navy? Limited upside, but a viable candidate. Risky, as they have little success w/o Johnson. And that's just football. Do they bring much in mens bball?
Army? Bringing them in w/ Navy is an option, forgetting ECU. Still, if Army and Navy tank, they become an albatross around your neck.

Buffalo? Showing improvement in both bball and fball. They are in the right place, and BE dollars might give them a spark. Definitely a gamble though. Can the BE afford such a project?

Delaware? A bit of a stretch.

Finally....

Kent? The sleeper, but a clear bball power. They too bring the potential for a big city market to the BE. No proof that anyone can deliver Cleveland/Akron w/ the hold that tOAMU has on the state's media, but I bet the temptation to try is there.

Guest

Actually, Chryst can shoulder most of the blame for Toledo's current dissatisfaction. He chose to bend over backwards for one disloyal member to the detriment of a loyal one for his entire tenure. His recent gamble could have sent a divisional champ to a bowl, with no fans, played in the middle of the night. Luckily for Toledo and Miami it didn't turn out that way, because he had no backup plan.

Chryst is easily the best commissioner the MAC has ever had. He's done some remarkable things. There is no doubt about that. In addition, Mike Karabin, during his thankfully short tenure as acting AD, gave Chryst reason to be angry with his bungling of the Minnesota game. However, enough is enough.

Btw, to speculate that Toledo is on its way to the Big East is quite a leap. My guess is that the board member's comment was nothing more than a shot across the bow.
Oddball Wrote:Btw, to speculate that Toledo is on its way to the Big East is quite a leap. My guess is that the board member's comment was nothing more than a shot across the bow.
Even so, it's bad timing and a really bad presentation.

The MAC got 5 bowls! Shouldn't that be a time of celebration.

Yes, the MAC's situation w/ the bowls was stretched, but as much of that came from the BCS as it did anything else. Had things in the MACC been different, would Toledo people really have been happy to be going to the GMAC w/ very little preparation time?

I realize the BG announcement only came a day or two earlier than the MACC, but again much of that was NIU hoping to get to the Indy Bowl.

If anyone should be upset it's the GMAC bowl. They would undoubtedly have preferred to make an announcement several days earlier, but I imagine Chryst kept them on hold trying to juggle the other situations. And consider those: The MCB, the Indy Bowl, the SVFC, the GMAC Bowl, the Ft Worth Bowl, Toledo, Miami, NIU, BG, Marshall and in all seriousness, Akron and the Hawaii Bowl! That's alot of balls in the air!

I believe that the situation had a lot of parties whose interests didn't favor everyone else's. If a senior member of a university can't see that and respect the challenge it presented...then he's in the wrong slot.
I can't see the Big East adding teams. They are at 16.

Either the Big East adds football-only schools (East Carolina makes some sense here; that gets them to nine, which makes scheduling much easier) or the football schools break away and add one or more (Memphis is a top bet in this scenario.

I see East Carolina and Memphis as the two strongest possibilities.

Lesser possibilities:

Marshall (but West Virginia would presumably blackball them, and I'm not sure the academic nature of the institution helps with other members, such as Syracuse and Pittsburgh).

Miami (but Cincinnati would presumably blackball them)

Central Florida (not sure if South Florida would go along with it or not).

Toledo (not sure if Cincinnati would go along with this or not, and they may have a touch of Marshall's problem in terms of the academic reputation of the institution).

Bottom line: I don't think any MAC team would join the Big East football only... I assume the MAC's response would be to kick the rest of the sports out in full, and, short of an A-10 membership (which seems doubtul), the costs would seem to outweight the benefit.

And I don't see any MAC program backfilling for a Memphis or East Carolina that packs up and leaves Conference USA.

A single new football-only membership is the only reasonable scenario I can see for the Big East until football schools get the stones to leave the Big East (forming what I will dub the Mountain East) or the non football schools break away and form something on their own.

So I don't think we have anything to worry about, despite the whining and crying of a certain Toledo Board of Trustees member.
Oddball Wrote:Actually, Chryst can shoulder most of the blame for Toledo's current dissatisfaction. He chose to bend over backwards for one disloyal member to the detriment of a loyal one for his entire tenure.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

:withstupid:

Guest

You birdbrains can quit worrying, no one is going to start saying that it is BG's fault. Sheesh, talk about getting your panties all twisted preemptively over unfounded paranoia. Defensive little girls, ain't ya?
The demise of the Big East (and by proxy the MAC) are greatly exaggerated.

The Big East is going to take a page from CUSA and butter its bread in basketball. 16 teams and in any given year 14 of them can be top 100 in the nation and most years there will 2 hanging around the top 10 and 1-2 (maybe 3) hanging around in the next 15.

We are talking about a realistic possibility of having 8 tournament teams on a semi-regular basis.

They will find the money from basketball to ramp football back up. Only one football team that left the Big East is rated higher in the BCS standings than Louisville (Va.Tech #8, UL #10).

A lot is made of the fact that there are 8 schools that play I-A ball and 8 that don't. But look at the football schools. Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Cincinnati. Just say those names and the casual fan is probably thinking BASKETBALL. The Big East is a hoops conference that provides a home for football for those schools that have it.

The MAC dodged its bullet when CUSA did the second expansion round. Things are going to start stabilizing. The only thing left hanging out there is the stability of the WAC and Sun Belt. The WAC because San Jose State's football situation seems to be up in the air, and the Sun Belt simply because it needs to see if FIU and FAU are able to transition into I-A after next season. Problems there will trickle down or sideways but no MAC school is going to increase its travel costs to hook up with either league in all sports.
arkstfan Wrote:The demise of the Big East (and by proxy the MAC) are greatly exaggerated.

The Big East is going to take a page from CUSA and butter its bread in basketball. 16 teams and in any given year 14 of them can be top 100 in the nation and most years there will 2 hanging around the top 10 and 1-2 (maybe 3) hanging around in the next 15.

We are talking about a realistic possibility of having 8 tournament teams on a semi-regular basis.
'Pitt' still says 'football' to me.

But, I don't think I buy into your point here. Things seem to settle to a common mean, and I think this tough of a conference will end up hurting some teams. Somebody is going to finish last, and that's going to spiral down.

Probably somebody will have a bad couple of years...they'll get a new coach, which will cause more instability...it will worsen, etc. Other programs are in a bad way alread (St Johns, *ahem) and this will prevent them from recovering.

Look at the Pac 10 in fball. A few years back, at least for a year, I believe they had as coaches: Carrol, Bellotti (w/ Tedford), Koetter, Neuheisel, Toledo, Erickson, Price, Willingham. WOW! That's almost a "Who's Who". But, it was like a critical mass, and many of them are now gone. It forced out a guy like Mackovic, who had a big-time reputation but in reality was overrated and then exposed. Of course seeing Neuheisel self destruct was a bit unexpected, but something like that would happen among 16 bball coaches. In short, the Pac 10 is still as balanced as ever...some winners, some losers, and several in the middle.

The BE won't maintain all its schools as bball powerhouses. It just cannot be done.

What will happen then? I think the rumors of splitting into 2 confernces will come to pass, and that's where the fball conference will expand. That's the scenario I was speculating on.
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