I don't think there are too many bowls, but I do think there are too many southern bowls.
The southern market is saturated with bowls and thus resulting in dismal attendence for many of the lesser bowls show casing lower ranked teams. I believe that these bowls should discontinue and create an opening for northern cities.
Indy. , and Toronto would have great support and success with bowls. I am sure that other cities in the north could be successful host.
Nothing against the southern cities, it is completely uderstandable that they are not rushing to see an East Coast school play a N. West school in the same area that will also host a BCS bowl in a few weeks.
Unless its in a dome... most bowls will be in the south.. weather is too much of a prob up north... as long as the bowls can find eligible teams... and make $$$ i have no prob with them.. U reduce the # of bowls n the mid majors will just get shut out even more...
Way too many.
When 56 of 117 teams are playing in a bowl, it's not that much of an honor. (Insert Kent State football joke here. :rolleyes: )
Reminds me of the local high school all-confernce basketball teams:
10 first-team players, 10 second-team players then Special Mention and Honorable Mention. Last year 38 players made All-Conference in some form or other. Hell, there are only 10 teams, meaning 50 starters in the league. It's pretty much an insult if you are not all-league.
Sure it's nice to say you are a bowl team, but it sure has become a small honor.
I think 20 bowls is much better, which would be slightly more than 33% of the teams--still more than the NCAA hoops tourney which allows fewer than 20% of the D-1 teams in.
If the same formula applied to football there would 12 bowl games.
Put that in your pipes and smoke it.
(insert Cribbs joke here.)
Last night's game, which actually interested me for some perverse reason before it started, was one of the most pathetic games I have witnessed in a bowl game. Damn, if I wanted to see football that bad, I'd go to more Kent State games. (rimshot!)
I finally had to watch the UD-Akron hoops game instead, which was at least played at some level of competance before the zips got unzipped midway thorugh the second half by a very mediocre Dayton team. Worst Flyer team in years. Not horrible, but way below where they have been. Zips are so inexperienced--lots of growing pains this year with some moments when they look decent. The road will probably be unkind to them, but they could do some damage in the JAR if they keep the turnovers down.
Quote:When 56 of 117 teams are playing in a bowl, it's not that much of an honor.
True. The bowl season, IMO, is merely an extra OOC game that gives teams a little extra exposure, a trip somewhere that's usually nice, and some added practice time. But I don't see bowl games as a huge reward anymore (don't get me wrong... I'd still love to see WMU in a bowl game someday).
But in terms of real exposure and marquee wins, MAC teams make bigger splashes in pre-season OOC than in bowl games. I'm glad NIU is going bowling, and their players/coaches/fans will enjoy their trip to California. But when it's all said and done, people will still remember NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland more than they will remember NIU-Troy.
westernwilly Wrote:I don't think there are too many bowls, but I do think there are too many southern bowls.
The southern market is saturated with bowls and thus resulting in dismal attendence for many of the lesser bowls show casing lower ranked teams. I believe that these bowls should discontinue and create an opening for northern cities.
Indy. , and Toronto would have great support and success with bowls. I am sure that other cities in the north could be successful host.
Nothing against the southern cities, it is completely uderstandable that they are not rushing to see an East Coast school play a N. West school in the same area that will also host a BCS bowl in a few weeks.
While I certainly believe those northern bowls
might do well, I see no guarantee.
Consider the weather. The reports I've been hearing (and no snow in No Virginia in case you all want to know :D ) is that the midwest got hit hard w/ snow. That hurts
all travel. And if it involves bad 6-5 teams, you can imagine that a game in Toronto or Indianapolis will generate no more interest than Ft Worth.
I do believe there are too many bowls. If guarantees could be made that teams w/ the best records go (so an 8-3 MAC team would trump a 6-5 ACC team) then I'd be content to see the SVFC, the LV Bowl and the Seattle Bowl disappear. Ironically, those are all western bowls...so maybe there is the glut. You could probably can the Ft Worth bowl as well.
DrTorch Wrote:westernwilly Wrote:I don't think there are too many bowls, but I do think there are too many southern bowls.
The southern market is saturated with bowls and thus resulting in dismal attendence for many of the lesser bowls show casing lower ranked teams. I believe that these bowls should discontinue and create an opening for northern cities.
Indy. , and Toronto would have great support and success with bowls. I am sure that other cities in the north could be successful host.
Nothing against the southern cities, it is completely uderstandable that they are not rushing to see an East Coast school play a N. West school in the same area that will also host a BCS bowl in a few weeks.
While I certainly believe those northern bowls might do well, I see no guarantee.
Consider the weather. The reports I've been hearing (and no snow in No Virginia in case you all want to know :D ) is that the midwest got hit hard w/ snow. That hurts all travel. And if it involves bad 6-5 teams, you can imagine that a game in Toronto or Indianapolis will generate no more interest than Ft Worth.
I do believe there are too many bowls. If guarantees could be made that teams w/ the best records go (so an 8-3 MAC team would trump a 6-5 ACC team) then I'd be content to see the SVFC, the LV Bowl and the Seattle Bowl disappear. Ironically, those are all western bowls...so maybe there is the glut. You could probably can the Ft Worth bowl as well.
We don't cry about snow in the Mid-West!
We go on with life and have fun doing so :noel:
Motown Bronco Wrote:Quote:When 56 of 117 teams are playing in a bowl, it's not that much of an honor.
True. The bowl season, IMO, is merely an extra OOC game that gives teams a little extra exposure, a trip somewhere that's usually nice, and some added practice time. But I don't see bowl games as a huge reward anymore (don't get me wrong... I'd still love to see WMU in a bowl game someday).
But in terms of real exposure and marquee wins, MAC teams make bigger splashes in pre-season OOC than in bowl games. I'm glad NIU is going bowling, and their players/coaches/fans will enjoy their trip to California. But when it's all said and done, people will still remember NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland more than they will remember NIU-Troy.
True enough.
But you may only reduce the number of bowls if we either increase the minimum qualifications (8 wins - should leave room for 3 or 4 MAC teams generally) or allow everyone to practice until the end of December whether they're in a bowl or not.
Quote: We don't cry about snow in the Mid-West!
We go on with life and have fun doing so noel.gif
Sorta pointless to complain about it. As my brother (in Southeast Alaska) says, "you learn to work in the rain or nothing gets done". Same with snow up here, I guess, though I do a lot less when it's nasty out.
As for bowls, I'd like to see the requirements to be bowl-eligible raised so it really DOES mean something. I think it's pitiful to see 6-5 teams in bowl games, and I don't care what conference they're from. What bugs me is that the tie-ins make it a certainty that we'll see bad 6-5 teams playing instead of deserving and interesting 8-3, 9-2, or 10-1 teams. That's just wrong.
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>You have to understand something here. Let me start off by displaying the list of "southern states".
You have:
Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia.
In those states you will find all of the SEC, all but two teams in the new ACC, all but two teams in the new CUSA, all of the new Sun Belt teams, four of the Big 12 teams, and two of the new Big East teams.
That's 12 SEC teams, plus 10 ACC teams, plus 10 CUSA teams, plus 8 Sun Belt teams, plus 4 Big 12, plus 2 Big East=46 Division 1-A schools out of 119 (if you include FAU and FIU) teams that play in the South.
The South contains nearly 40% of all of Division 1-A's schools. That's the most of any single indentifiable region in the nation.
There are so many bowls in the South not just because of better weather later in the year, but you also have alot more schools to put in regional bowl games. There is alot of football that is played in the South and it is no wonder why college football always looks to the South for better postseason destinations. In fact, the 1-AA National Title game is also played in the South in Chattanooga, TN and so is the Blue/Gray game usually in Troy, Alabama.
</span></span></span>
Motown Bronco Wrote:But when it's all said and done, people will still remember NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland more than they will remember NIU-Troy.
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>That is not totally accurate. It is not Northern Illinois that people remember about NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland. It is Bama and Maryland that people remember because they play in the BC$ and have fan support that surpasses not just NIU, but all of the MAC teams combined.
Of course hardly anyone will remember NIU and Troy because you have two unknowns instead of one unknown and a known like you had in your previous two examples. The media hypes up Power $ix Conference schools. Those schools have hundreds of thousands of fans compared to the NIU's and Troy's who only have thousands or tens of thousands.
There's really no comparison. And that is why you see on Power $ix schools compete for the national title. Even though Utah is going to the Fiesta Bowl, they still can't win the national title because the winner between Oklahoma and USC will determine that.</span></span></span>
WHAT!?!?
You mean if Utah wins its bracket, it won't get a chance to play one of them in the next round?
What the heII kind of screwy tournament is this anyway?
:rofl: spoken like a true Kent basketball fan :rofl:
BlueRaiderPride Wrote:Motown Bronco Wrote:But when it's all said and done, people will still remember NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland more than they will remember NIU-Troy.
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>That is not totally accurate. It is not Northern Illinois that people remember about NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland. It is Bama and Maryland that people remember because they play in the BC$ and have fan support that surpasses not just NIU, but all of the MAC teams combined.
Of course hardly anyone will remember NIU and Troy because you have two unknowns instead of one unknown and a known like you had in your previous two examples. The media hypes up Power $ix Conference schools. Those schools have hundreds of thousands of fans compared to the NIU's and Troy's who only have thousands or tens of thousands.
There's really no comparison. And that is why you see on Power $ix schools compete for the national title. Even though Utah is going to the Fiesta Bowl, they still can't win the national title because the winner between Oklahoma and USC will determine that.</span></span></span>
I think you are missing the point here BuRP. People will remember the NIU games against 'Bama and Maryland because of the matchup and the victories NIU had against those quality schools. When we play at 'Bama again in '08, people will remember our win in '03. NIU fans will ALWAYS remember this game and who we beat.
People will not remember a win against a decent team in a 1-AA conference like the Sun Belt in the same way. What they will rememer is that we won our first bowl game that in 21 years.
We will then ask: "Who did we beat again?". Response: "Oh yeah, Troy
State ". :rofl:
HuskiemobileMan Wrote:BlueRaiderPride Wrote:Motown Bronco Wrote:But when it's all said and done, people will still remember NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland more than they will remember NIU-Troy.
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>That is not totally accurate. It is not Northern Illinois that people remember about NIU-Bama and NIU-Maryland. It is Bama and Maryland that people remember because they play in the BC$ and have fan support that surpasses not just NIU, but all of the MAC teams combined.
Of course hardly anyone will remember NIU and Troy because you have two unknowns instead of one unknown and a known like you had in your previous two examples. The media hypes up Power $ix Conference schools. Those schools have hundreds of thousands of fans compared to the NIU's and Troy's who only have thousands or tens of thousands.
There's really no comparison. And that is why you see on Power $ix schools compete for the national title. Even though Utah is going to the Fiesta Bowl, they still can't win the national title because the winner between Oklahoma and USC will determine that.</span></span></span>
I think you are missing the point here BuRP. People will remember the NIU games against 'Bama and Maryland because of the matchup and the victories NIU had against those quality schools. When we play at 'Bama again in '08, people will remember our win in '03. NIU fans will ALWAYS remember this game and who we beat.
People will not remember a win against a decent team in a 1-AA conference like the Sun Belt in the same way. What they will rememer is that we won our first bowl game that in 21 years.
We will then ask: "Who did we beat again?". Response: "Oh yeah, Troy State ". :rofl:
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>You have to understand something. Northern Illinois is not even close to the toughest team that Troy has faced this year as Missouri, South Carolina, and LSU are definitely stronger.
And no, I wouldn't expect NIU fans to remember Troy. Troy is not a long-standing member from one of the six power conferences. They aren't a member of the six power conferences at all. You'd get the same effect had your team beaten Cincinnati or South Florida as members of the Big East. Louisville might be an exception, but even they wouldn't carry the weight of a state flagship like Alabama or Maryland.
And as for Northern Illinois getting their first bowl win in 21 years, well, you'll just have to face someone a little softer. NIU needs to be very worried about Troy's defense. Troy's defense will most definitely shut down anything NIU has to offer offensively. And you will find that out here in about six days from now. And I apologize. I think I said Troy's total defense was ranked 13th in the nation. It is actually ranked 17th in the nation. And Northern Illinois has a total defense ranked 63rd in the nation. And JUST to give you an idea what other teams have defenses just as good as NIU's. Louisiana-Monroe is ranked 64th and Louisiana-Lafayette's defense is ranked 65th.
A good defense always beats a good offense. You remember that.</span></span></span>
BlueRaiderPride Wrote:Troy's defense will most definitely shut down anything NIU has to offer offensively. And you will find that out here in about six days from now. And I apologize. I think I said Troy's total defense was ranked 13th in the nation. It is actually ranked 17th in the nation. And Northern Illinois has a total defense ranked 63rd in the nation. And JUST to give you an idea what other teams have defenses just as good as NIU's. Louisiana-Monroe is ranked 64th and Louisiana-Lafayette's defense is ranked 65th.
A good defense always beats a good offense. You remember that.
Spoken like a true fan blinded by his own team's accomplishments. Not that there's a whole lot wrong with that... unless you're a guest in another team/conference's board. Oops!
You can throw rankings and stats around all day and not convince me of a darned thing. The only factor that truly matters is how each team matches up player-to-player. Spouting certainties like "A good defense always beats a good offense" about an unpredictable game like college football only shows your hubris and your ignorance. You remember that.
-Dan
Photodan Wrote:BlueRaiderPride Wrote:Troy's defense will most definitely shut down anything NIU has to offer offensively. And you will find that out here in about six days from now. And I apologize. I think I said Troy's total defense was ranked 13th in the nation. It is actually ranked 17th in the nation. And Northern Illinois has a total defense ranked 63rd in the nation. And JUST to give you an idea what other teams have defenses just as good as NIU's. Louisiana-Monroe is ranked 64th and Louisiana-Lafayette's defense is ranked 65th.
A good defense always beats a good offense. You remember that.
Spoken like a true fan blinded by his own team's accomplishments. Not that there's a whole lot wrong with that... unless you're a guest in another team/conference's board. Oops!
You can throw rankings and stats around all day and not convince me of a darned thing. The only factor that truly matters is how each team matches up player-to-player. Spouting certainties like "A good defense always beats a good offense" about an unpredictable game like college football only shows your hubris and your ignorance. You remember that.
-Dan
Thank you!
By the way, Troy's D hasnt played anyone this year!
Wolfe will light up Troy!
G-FORCE Wrote:By the way, Troy's D hasnt played anyone this year!
Wolfe will light up Troy!
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>Did Troy not beat a Middle Tennessee team that despite a 5-6 record beat one of your upper echolon MAC teams?
Did Troy not also beat Missouri who beat Iowa State? I don't think NIU faired too well against the Cyclones. And Miami University of Ohio will fair even less against them in the Independence Bowl, I'm sure.
Did Troy not also go on the road and beat Marshall giving them their only home loss of the season?
One other thing, G-Force, because you are completely stupid for even making a remark like that is that Troy's schedule that included LSU and South Carolina certainly overmatches NIU's pathetic excuse of a schedule that included national powderpuffs Kent, Ohio, Ball State, and Central, Eastern, and Western Michigan. Your schedule was also marred by a NARROW 30-28 victory over miserable Central Florida, unarguably the worst team in all of Division 1-A, and a 1-point victory over 1-AA Southern Illinois!!!! YOUR SCHEDULE ABSOLUTELY SUCKED IN COMPARISON!! How absolutely dare you make such a claim! Do you realize that college football analysts across the nation would laugh you to your grave for making such an ignorant comment?
Idaho, the Sun Belt's worst team, could beat over half the teams on your schedule including every single one I just named!!!
Your delusions will be put to rest when the Trojan defense absolutely mauls your overrated offense who's national rank was padded generously due to a pathetic schedule with the weakest teams in the nation!!!!</span></span></span>
Photodan Wrote:BlueRaiderPride Wrote:Troy's defense will most definitely shut down anything NIU has to offer offensively. And you will find that out here in about six days from now. And I apologize. I think I said Troy's total defense was ranked 13th in the nation. It is actually ranked 17th in the nation. And Northern Illinois has a total defense ranked 63rd in the nation. And JUST to give you an idea what other teams have defenses just as good as NIU's. Louisiana-Monroe is ranked 64th and Louisiana-Lafayette's defense is ranked 65th.
A good defense always beats a good offense. You remember that.
Spoken like a true fan blinded by his own team's accomplishments. Not that there's a whole lot wrong with that... unless you're a guest in another team/conference's board. Oops!
You can throw rankings and stats around all day and not convince me of a darned thing. The only factor that truly matters is how each team matches up player-to-player. Spouting certainties like "A good defense always beats a good offense" about an unpredictable game like college football only shows your hubris and your ignorance. You remember that.
-Dan
<span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>Troy certainly would never struggle to beat 1-AA Southern Illinois or pathetic Central Florida or the other miserable MAC teams that are deserving of their lower than 110 ranking like Ohio, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Kent, Ball State, and Western Michigan!
Your conference is weak, and you will find out just how weak it is in the next six days. Your precious Toledo Rockets will certainly be the next MAC team to go down! Now, you remember that so when it happens, you won't be surprised. If Toledo had played somebody good, like say Minnesota or Kansas. . . .oh wait, you did play those schools, and I see you lost those games too. What were those scores? Quite possibly the worst back-to-back losses in Toledo history by margin of loss, I do believe. Such a grand representation of the MAC your team made. Toledo's failure to beat an OOC team that has a winning record tells me the Rockets are asking for a loss to UConn.
Don't worry. Toledo shouldn't have to worry about defending the MAC's honor. It wouldn't be the first time the MAC champion fell in the Motor City Bowl. </span></span></span>
um, BuRP, you're getting just a tad carried away here. Your use of phrases like
Quote:Troy certainly would never struggle
and
Quote:Idaho, the Sun Belt's worst team, could beat over half the teams on your schedule
lead me to believe you're having issues with reality. First of all, how in the world are you able to say definitively that Troy (or anyone else) would never struggle against anyone else? Second, of course the Sun Belt's worst team COULD beat anyone...they play the games for just that reason.
You want to believe Toledo is weak because they started the season off badly with 7 freshmen or sophs on their 2-deep defensive line? Go right ahead. Nobody that has played Toledo since then thinks it's the same team, and it's not. I expect a great challenge from UConn. Their offense has done great things, from what I've read. And it looks like, on paper, their defense is pretty solid too. Toledo will have its work cut out for it. Will they win? I don't know. But I certainly think we have a good chance.
Your minimalizing the MAC and everyone in it is getting tedious at best. We're not any of the BCS conferences and don't claim to be. What we do claim is a number of schools that play some pretty damn good football, and rightfully so. Your positions seem to be built on a foundation of regional familiarity rather than fact. Leave the "transitive properties of football" out of any future discussions. They mean nothing, and that's been proven repeatedly over the years.
Can we just officially declare Blue Raider a flaming idiot and move on?