The language in the press release about the MAC Presidents meeting looks to me like expansion is a foregone conclusion. The issue appears to be not IF the MAC will expand but WHEN and WHO the new members will be.
Like everybody else, I'm trying to figure this out. Here are three possible explanations of MAC thinking and maybe there are others.
Explanation 1-There are current members who are considering dropping football to the 1AA level, and remember 12 members are required in order to have a Conference Championship game.
The problem with this explanation is that I am aware of no member who shows signs of dropping to 1AA. In fact, enthusiasm of some of the teams who have not fared well recently appears to be up with new coaches, facility plans, etc.
Explanation 2--There are current members who are thinking of leaving the MAC to join other 1A conferences.
The problem here is the same. I know of no member who is showing signs of doing this. And where would they go--C-USA or the Big East? Either one could involve more risks than staying in the MAC.
Explanation 3--Expansion would strengthen the MAC.
The question here of course is how. Would it strengthen the MAC by protecting it from future realignment upheavals. But most of those upheavals would be a version of what is presented above.
Could expansion strengthen the MAC financially? What I'm thinking about here is a better TV contract and more NCAA basketball tournament money with increased bids. Is ESPN behind the scenes here, encouraging the MAC to expand? If the MAC expanded by adding Temple and some other large media market school, it could strengthen its financial base in more ways than one.
Is the main reason that the MAC is seeking to improve its basketball through expansion? I'm thinking that this makes the most sense of any reasons given so far. Over the last several months, I think Commissioner Chryst has hinted that this is an objective.
An all sports conference is strengthened overall by keeping names of its members in the minds of fans across the country throughout the year. Good football promotes good basketball promotes good baseball, and so on.
Finally, let me toss in this. If the MAC expands in the right way, it could improve not only its athletic reputation but its academic reputation.
So--I'm trying to figure out why the MAC appears to be planning to expand. If we knew why, we could make better guesses about who the new members might be. I'd like to hear other opinions.
Santa Fe Falcon Wrote:The language in the press release about the MAC Presidents meeting looks to me like expansion is a foregone conclusion.
I'm not sure I take it this way. It looked like it was defining the committment expected from members. So, if a new pres takes over at a university, the MAC doesn't end up w/ a Temple-esque situation. The university has a well-defined obligation.
Quote:Explanation 1-There are current members who are considering dropping football to the 1AA level, and remember 12 members are required in order to have a Conference Championship game.
The problem with this explanation is that I am aware of no member who shows signs of dropping to 1AA. In fact, enthusiasm of some of the teams who have not fared well recently appears to be up with new coaches, facility plans, etc.
Assuming your interpretation holds up, then I agree w/ this point.
Quote:Explanation 2--There are current members who are thinking of leaving the MAC to join other 1A conferences.
The problem here is the same. I know of no member who is showing signs of doing this. And where would they go--C-USA or the Big East?
Either one could involve more risks than staying in the MAC.
I wouldn't be so sure of this. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Big East break up and an all-sports conference form that resembles its current fball members.(FBE)
If that happens, then some MAC schools could be considered by the FBE for its expansion: Toledo, Kent, Buffalo, Miami (OH), and of course Ohio U.
With the rapid growth in the western suburbs of Chicago and NIU's success, they might be on track to move up in the perception of other conferences. So, if you dump cruddy Baylor, does the Big 12 look for Chicago presence?
Finally, there is the possibility of the MAC splitting when CUSA disintegrates, to form a new conference w/ the "better" teams. The remaining MAC teams might merge w/ SBC and CUSA teams. If that's the case, this set of rules seems obsolete.
Quote:Explanation 3--Expansion would strengthen the MAC.
The question here of course is how.
Yeah, I don't see it either.
In today's USA TODAY:
MAC EXPANSION...The wave of conference reshuffling triggered by the ACC might not be finished. MAC presidents voted Monday to consider expansion of the D1 league. It will lose two of its 14 members next season.
In the MAC's sights: Western Ky University, the 2002 1-AA football champion, which is weighing a move up to 1A, in all sports and Big East outcast Temple in football only.The chairman of the presidents council of presidents said this matter is certainly a high priority and we expect discussions to move forward efficiently.
Possible Explanation: With Western Kentucky and Temple in the the MAC, The Conference Basketball Season and the tournament at the Gund get a "Big Time" giant boost up. You only have to look at their history, as well as the kind of season that these two schools are having this year, as well as their scheduling and quality of play. Basketball wise this is too good a situation to ignore or to pass up. The long term results would be powerful. This makes the risk in football worth taking. Imho the whole deal could work out very well for all parties concerned. You really have to trust Rick Chrysts judgement. Also, if the 2005 football season fails to continue the great momentum of the past two seasons by the MAC losing most OOC games, and going back to the prior to last season two bid status, it could be time for a change in 2006 or 2007.
There was no great momentum last football season. The OOC record was a disaster, we ranked last among D-1A conferences, and only got the bowl games because there was no one else to give them to. No one. Last year lost a lot of the good that was done the year before, it did not continure it.
I still see no reason to add Temple without basketball and I think we should force their hand on this issue. What are they going to do in '06 without the MAC? Independent? We should dictate the terms of this expansion.
axeme Wrote:There was no great momentum last football season. The OOC record was a disaster, we ranked last among D-1A conferences, and only got the bowl games because there was no one else to give them to. No one. Last year lost a lot of the good that was done the year before, it did not continure it.
Same thing could be said about last season's M Bball.
Except the MAC did win
2 bowl games, compared to zero bball tourney games.
And Frye was Senior Bowl MVP
The prominence of MAC players in the NFL also did fball alot of good.
Bball has bounced back this season.
Expect fball to do as much or moreso next season.
I think you are missing the bigger picture. Why expand if you have 12 and everyone works on getting better ??
My take is that the PR teams are out in force only to keep options open IN CASE there is an unexpected drop below 12 , for whatever reason. Then you quickly bridge the gap and close ranks back to 12.
There is no magic in 14.
axeme Wrote:I still see no reason to add Temple without basketball and I think we should force their hand on this issue.
That, to me, is exactly what the MAC should do. Otherwise, why expand?
I think some of you people are reading way too much into this. What is the MAC's intent for expanding to two seven team divisions?
Strength in numbers and profile, coupled with ease of scheduling.
The MAC basketball profile is greatly enhanced by adding Temple and Western Kentucky. This most certainly ensure's the conference will be a multiple-bid league in future years. Add to this the appointment of Laing Kennedy to the selection committee and all of sudden, the MAC will have surpassed C-USA and is right there with the A-10 and MWC.
The sticking point will be Temple for all sports. The Owls will have to make a decision, all or nothing, someday, probably by 2010. Near term, you could bring in a combination of Temple (football-only), WKU (Olympic sports), and MTSU (full membership). This scenario is fine if you know for sure that Temple plans to leave by 2010, at which time WKU could begin competing in football.
BeatWestern Wrote:This scenario is fine if you know for sure that Temple plans to leave by 2010, at which time WKU could begin competing in football.
I don't believe MTSU would have any interest in the MAC. Just not a move that makes sense for them.
I don't think WKU would take a deal that brings them to the MAC in all sports except football with football waiting until 2010.
If Temple can't/won't/will not lock into the MAC long term there is no reason for the MAC to take Western Kentucky and create an imbalance in basketball with the specter of having football going out of balance in just a few years.
axeme Wrote:I still see no reason to add Temple without basketball and I think we should force their hand on this issue. What are they going to do in '06 without the MAC? Independent? We should dictate the terms of this expansion.
I see no incentive for Temple to bring their basketball team to the MAC. The Atlantic 10 brings them, local conference foes (St. Joe's and LaSalle), big markets (Philadelphia, DC, Richmond, Charlotte, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc.) and long-term rivalries. The MAC offers them none of this. At Temple, football is not a big enough priority to have any influence over the basketball team. TU's desire to have a football affiliation will not determine the affiliation of the basketball team or their other sports. Chaney and the AD both know they will sell more tickets to their fans to see George Washington and St. Joseph's than Bowling Green and Northern Illinois.
If Temple comes, they come for football only. I, for one, hope they aren't coming at all.
DexterEagle Wrote:If Temple comes, they come for football only. I, for one, hope they aren't coming at all.
You may get to see them face your W&M team. If Temple doesn't get things moving, they may end up moving to IAA. They can have the same advantages their bball team sees:
"local conference foes (St. Joe's and LaSalle), big markets (Philadelphia, DC, Richmond)"
Which may work out well for everyone.
I suspect the commissioner of the A-10 and several presidents in the league have a pitch that goes something like this for Temple.
Please, please, please, PLEASE, move your football to I-AA. The mean old Colonial is getting ready to steal at least half of our members in football.
DexterEagle Wrote:axeme Wrote:I still see no reason to add Temple without basketball and I think we should force their hand on this issue. What are they going to do in '06 without the MAC? Independent? We should dictate the terms of this expansion.
I see no incentive for Temple to bring their basketball team to the MAC. The Atlantic 10 brings them, local conference foes (St. Joe's and LaSalle), big markets (Philadelphia, DC, Richmond, Charlotte, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc.) and long-term rivalries. The MAC offers them none of this. At Temple, football is not a big enough priority to have any influence over the basketball team. TU's desire to have a football affiliation will not determine the affiliation of the basketball team or their other sports. Chaney and the AD both know they will sell more tickets to their fans to see George Washington and St. Joseph's than Bowling Green and Northern Illinois.
If Temple comes, they come for football only. I, for one, hope they aren't coming at all.
no incentive? how about their "new commitment to football". seems like a good incentive to me. The MAC has no incentive to take them for football only.
Shrakkrocket Wrote:DexterEagle Wrote:axeme Wrote:I still see no reason to add Temple without basketball and I think we should force their hand on this issue. What are they going to do in '06 without the MAC? Independent? We should dictate the terms of this expansion.
I see no incentive for Temple to bring their basketball team to the MAC. The Atlantic 10 brings them, local conference foes (St. Joe's and LaSalle), big markets (Philadelphia, DC, Richmond, Charlotte, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc.) and long-term rivalries. The MAC offers them none of this. At Temple, football is not a big enough priority to have any influence over the basketball team. TU's desire to have a football affiliation will not determine the affiliation of the basketball team or their other sports. Chaney and the AD both know they will sell more tickets to their fans to see George Washington and St. Joseph's than Bowling Green and Northern Illinois.
If Temple comes, they come for football only. I, for one, hope they aren't coming at all.
no incentive? how about their "new commitment to football". seems like a good incentive to me. The MAC has no incentive to take them for football only.
Exactly. We would see how serious they are about D-1A football or whether they are just paying lip service to appease those within the Owl faithful. They really have very few options in D1-A. We don't need them for football but they would provide us some benefits in all sports. If they were in for football only, it's pretty clear they would jump ship at the first opportunity if the program could get turned around. So we would get them only if they stay lousy. Wow.
If they came in in all sports, that is a different level of committment. (Plus there should be a heavy exit fee if they were to leave within 10 years.)
I think that the MAC should add Southern Illinois.
That is a plan, however, it is contingent on Notre Dame being included in the MAC expansion scenario.
Nod to Oddy... :wave:
David Krysakowski Wrote:I think that the MAC should add Southern Illinois.
Should we take a poll to see what you should do? :wave:
I think the MAC should add New Mexico State and the rest of you should just shut up.
I refuse to discuss it.
:cuss:
I hear La Tech has a good program and evidently travel is not an issue for them. :rofl: