CSNbbs

Hats off to both athletic departments. You can read more about the NCAA's new Academic Progress Reports at MHT.

<a href='http://www.miamihawktalk.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.miamihawktalk.com/</a>

Scanned from the Houston Chronicle story:

This is not flame bait, but we need a broader look at this I think.

For now, we can say this:

Ball State, Miami (Ohio) and Ohio appear pretty solid. It looks like all their programs are either above 925 -- which is the Mendoza line -- or at least not far enough below to receive warnings from the NCAA.

This is being phased in over four years. Eventually, everyone will have to get their average over 925. For now, there is a bit of a curve.

I've pulled from USA Today a list of football and basketball programs that were far enough below the Mendoza line to receive official warnings from the NCAA:

Football:

802................................Middle Tennessee State (worst in the nation)
850............................... Toledo (fourth from the bottom)
854............................... Buffalo
860............................... Temple
880............................... Central Florida
896............................... Western Michigan
897............................... Eastern Michigan
902............................... Marshall

Basketball:

611........................... Fresno State (for reference; this was the absolute worst)
818........................... Temple
839........................... Northern Illinois
840........................... Central Michigan
860........................... Akron
865........................... Eastern Michigan
870........................... Western Kentucky

What I haven't seen yet is a list of MAC programs below the Mendoza line, but not so far as to not receive official warnings from the NCAA. It could be compiled, but I don't have time.

Bottom line -- and, again, no flame intended -- Toledo football would seem to have some work to do if they want to stay off academic probation.

My impression is that it might be easier for basketball programs to turn these measures around in a hurry. They only give three or so scholarships per season. But that's just an impression.

I recommend that y'all read USA Today's coverage. It was good.

Their will have to be some changes to how this is calculated. For one, JUCO players do not count. Even though they come in, make the grade, and graduate. Transfers hurt you too, reglardless of how that student does.

That explains WKU's low basketball score. With the coaching change two years ago, we had several players transfer. That hurt our score. Incidently, WKU did have the highest overall SBC score, 967 I think.

Schadenfreude Wrote:I've pulled from USA Today a list of football and basketball programs that were far enough below the Mendoza line to receive official warnings from the NCAA:

Football:

802................................Middle Tennessee State (worst in the nation)
850............................... Toledo (fourth from the bottom)
854............................... Buffalo
860............................... Temple
880............................... Central Florida
896............................... Western Michigan
897............................... Eastern Michigan
902............................... Marshall

I believe these standards are much more likely to take effect in substantially their present form than are the much-discussed attendance rules. That said, I've found the silence of the Herdiban on this subject quite instructive. I mean, where has the green analysis of every hiccup along THIS road been?

Schadenfreude Wrote:Bottom line -- and, again, no flame intended -- Toledo football would seem to have some work to do if they want to stay off academic probation.

Why did you single out Toledo, but not mention Buffalo, Western Michigan, or Eastern Michigan.....and of course the possible future member of Temple?

This is a great day for the NCAA. If Myles Brand can actually implement the punishments, the landscape will be forever changed.

I, for one, am thrilled that schools and, more specifically, athletic departments are finally being held accountable.

It's been a long time coming and I'm looking forward to seeing the fallout.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:Bottom line -- and, again, no flame intended -- Toledo football would seem to have some work to do if they want to stay off academic probation.

Why did you single out Toledo, but not mention Buffalo, Western Michigan, or Eastern Michigan.....and of course the possible future member of Temple?

RF:

I have to agree with you. I particularly find it dismaying to see Buffalo there, since a lot of folks defend their inclusion in the MAC as an academic boon. Also sad that, even though they apparently don't hold their football players to a high academic standards, they can't hit their a** with both hands.

FWIW, anything that shows Temple being bad for the MAC works for me.

BGSUalum1987 Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:Bottom line -- and, again, no flame intended -- Toledo football would seem to have some work to do if they want to stay off academic probation.

Why did you single out Toledo, but not mention Buffalo, Western Michigan, or Eastern Michigan.....and of course the possible future member of Temple?

RF:

I have to agree with you. I particularly find it dismaying to see Buffalo there, since a lot of folks defend their inclusion in the MAC as an academic boon. Also sad that, even though they apparently don't hold their football players to a high academic standards, they can't hit their a** with both hands.

FWIW, anything that shows Temple being bad for the MAC works for me.

The criteria measures whether scholarship athletes A) remain at the school and B) stay academically eligible and ultimately graduate.

First off he didn't mention Buffalo probably because losing a scholarship or two won't make us any worse (Lets get that joke out of the way right now!). Toledo on the other hand regularly competes for the MAC Title and they would take a hit (in scholarships and PR).

Anyway, it seems like UB has had an awful lot of academically ineligible players creep up over the past few years. I think it's in part because they are trying to jump start the program with better athletes (but low quality students) and clearly they cannot hack the tough undergraduate work that requires to stay eligible at Buffalo.

Bottom line is that UB is a very good academic institution (and an important player on the National research scene) and benefits the MAC is that regard.... but the dark side is the players they are bringing in can't cut it here.

The other thing about Buffalo is a lot of guys have left the school because we've been so bad on the field. It's a damn shame really, but that's real life for ya...

rocketfootball Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:Bottom line -- and, again, no flame intended -- Toledo football would seem to have some work to do if they want to stay off academic probation.

Why did you single out Toledo, but not mention Buffalo, Western Michigan, or Eastern Michigan.....and of course the possible future member of Temple?

Because I'm more of a football fan than I am a basketball fan -- and because Toledo was at the bottom of our league, so it stood out more.

Also, if postseason bans are part of the mix -- and I thought it was a possibility in all this, but I might be wrong -- than that would seem to be more relevant to a program like Toledo, which has been in the post season quite often lately.

The Blade had a report today. The most important question -- can this be corrected before penalties start hitting? -- doesn't seem to be answered clearly.

<a href='http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/SPORTS11/503020345/-1/SPORTS' target='_blank'>http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...20345/-1/SPORTS</a>

I'm doing what I meant to do yesterday: Cast a longer look at academic standards for football and men's basketball.

I'm excluding expansion candidates and deparing schools this time and focusing on where the programs stand right now.

Again, 925 will eventually be the Mendoza line. For now, the NCAA is allowing a bit of extra leeway right now, but that will eventually be the standard -- and getting there is tougher than it looks because data on the books now will be used, in part, in judging that standard. These numbers are based on four year rolling averages of graduation rates.

Football

An example for others:
Miami - 973
Ball State - 959

Cutting it close:
Kent State: 936
Bowling Green - 929

Needs improvement:
Akron - 920
Central Michigan - 919
Ohio - 919

Dangerously in need of improvement:
Northern Illinois: 907
Eastern Michigan: 897
Western Michigan: 896
Buffalo - 854
Toledo - 850


Basketball

An example for others:
Miami - 989
Ball State - 981
Toledo - 979
Eastern Michigan - 965
Western Michigan - 950

Cutting it close:
Bowling Green - 942
Ohio - 941

Dangerously in need of improvement:
Buffalo - 885
Kent State - 885
Akron - 860
Central Michigan - 840
Northern Illinois - 839

I feel like the numbers you have listed are a bit misleading since they are reported from one academic year only. The report said that this has lead to some very small sample sizes and can skew the data heavily to one side. That's the reason the NCAA will not be using this specific data to penalize schools. Like you said, eventually they will be using data like this...but on a rolling 4 year rate. It will be a much more accurate snapshot of how student athletes are doing academically and/or staying in school.

One example from my school is Bortz and Battle. They have made the All-MAC academic team and Battle has some national academic awards. Last year , I think at least one, maybe two BBall players left the school and transferred. That's one reason why the APR is a bit low for one specific season.

zrb2 Wrote:I feel like the numbers you have listed are a bit misleading since they are reported from one academic year only. The report said that this has lead to some very small sample sizes and can skew the data heavily to one side. That's the reason the NCAA will not be using this specific data to penalize schools. Like you said, eventually they will be using data like this...but on a rolling 4 year rate. It will be a much more accurate snapshot of how student athletes are doing academically and/or staying in school.

If you are correct, than it is an excellent point.

On the other hand, it seems like if this data really was from one year only, we would be seeing a lot of zeroes (or whatever a zero would mean in this formula) for basketball programs because of the incredibly small sample size.

Because I didn't see so many zeroes, I guess I assumed this already were the rolling four year rates.

Do you have a source?

[/QUOTE]
If you are correct, than it is an excellent point. On the other hand, it seems like if this data really was from one year only, we would be seeing a lot of zeroes (or whatever a zero would mean in this formula) for basketball programs because of the incredibly small sample size.
Because I didn't see so many zeroes, I guess I assumed this already were the rolling four year rates. Do you have a source? [/QUOTE]

The numbers that just came out (that you have listed) only reflect the 2003-'04 APR scores by team and the overall APR for that academic year. The next set of APR data will include 2003-'04 plus '04-'05 and is supposed to be released as early as the fall of 2005. This note is directly from the APR report
[Note: It is important to note that all information contained in this report is for one academic year only. This may lead to very small sample sizes within certain sport groups. Because of that, the NCAA will not be using these data alone for the purpose of rewarding or penalizing institutions and the reader should use the data with caution. Eventually, the NCAA anticipates
reporting data only on the basis of a four-year rolling rate for all sports.]


Football is the one sport that has a reasonable number of player "samples" to be able to make a judgment over one season. I agree that Toledo & UB need to do a better job of keeping players academically eligible. Basektball needs a couple years before the numbers are anywhere close to accurate.

Czabe's comments below. He's not really a college sports guy, so I think this is an effort just to throw darts. But, he does have a nice bikini-clad model today.

<a href='http://www.czabe.com/dailyczabe.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.czabe.com/dailyczabe.shtml</a>

[quote]More Paperwork, Less Sense
The NCAA is unceasing in its do-gooder zeal. They released yesterday a new, confusing metric on how schools are doing in regard to graduating their student athletes. While I agree that graduation rates are a definable educational “good