This is too bad for a great young back
<a href='http://www.themorningsun.com/stories/033105/loc_seymour001.shtml' target='_blank'>Linky</a>
First BSU and now CMU.Too bad.I hate to see this stuff happen
Well, for all we know all he did was lie to the grand jury and not wasn't actually involved in the murder. Sure lying to the grand jury is a bad thing and against the law, but if that is all he did he could see a small sentence and maybe a 1 or 2 game suspension which would probably be in OOC competition anyway.
I guess what I am saying is that this is bad news for CMU, but depending on exactly what he did and how they approach the situation he could very well be playing for CMU in all of their conference games which would still make them a possible sleeper/surprise team in the MAC West this fall.
Rocket,
If he is convicted and not thrown off of the team, its outragous. He lied to a grand jury that is investigating a murder. He lied to the point that hes been arrested for same. Sure he didn't commit the murder but he lied about his activities close to same. A scholorship and participation in college athletics is a privelage, it's not a right. I'm sure a lesser important player on the CMU roster would definitely be sent out. When you receive your 1 year incremental scholorship you have certain responsibilities to uphold. Not going to class gets you suspended commiting a crime involving a murder should be nothing less than dismissal. Granted Coach Kelly's backround @ GVSU may support otherwise the administration needs to step in if he doesn't
We should see how this plays out.
Like you said we should see how this plays out. We don't know exactly what he lied about. We don't know that he will be convicted either. Like I said, depending on what actually happened he could still be playing. If it isn't as bad as it sounds he deserves a 2nd chance. Just don't convict the guy before he has his day in court. Of course until that day in court he probably should not be allowed to practice with the team.
A few things:
1) As RF said, we don't have all the info here. One person who has already exhausted his eligibility was sentenced to 30 days for lying about contacting someone (phone records proved otherwise) the night of the incident. We don't know if this is the same or not.
2) If he did lie to the judge -- it was literally a one-man grand jury, which strikes me as a little odd, personally -- the severity of the punishment should be based on exactly what this was about. A lie about speaking to someone after the fact is less bad than, say, witnessing the beating and saying you didn't. The same goes for any punishment doled out by the university, in my mind.
3) Per coach Kelly, Jerry has been indefinitely suspended, pending the resolution of the charge. Based on how the other cases of lying to the grand jury were handled (two former players, two students who are not athletes), I'd expect a pretty quick resolution on the charge.
4) The article did not mention whether it's a civil or a criminal charge. I'd think the distinction is important.
5) So far, no one has been charged with directly contributing to Graham's death. Several of us on the CMU Insider are speculating that the judge is using inconsistencies in witness testimony to try to shake things up and obtain new information.
6) Hurry-up-and-wait, folks. Charged with a crime is not always convicted of a crime. One guy had civil charges dismissed after he and his attorney made an appearance.
7) On a related note, if Mt. Pleasant PD had responded quickly to the call about a fight inside the bar, the events outside would probably not have happened. :mad:
Quote:Like you said we should see how this plays out. We don't know exactly what he lied about. We don't know that he will be convicted either. Like I said, depending on what actually happened he could still be playing. If it isn't as bad as it sounds he deserves a 2nd chance. Just don't convict the guy before he has his day in court. Of course until that day in court he probably should not be allowed to practice with the team.
Agree 100%. Everyone deserves their day in court v. trial and punishment via internet chat rooms. PLus, CMU runs a pretty clean program.
On a different note, there are certain types of situations that happen in many schools. They have certainly happened at Kent State, and other examples come to mind that I won't cite here. Why can't these kids get a clue? For scholarship athletes, nothing good is going to happen after 1) 1:00 AM 2) hanging with buddies 3) with beer involved. The real shame is that the same tough lessons have to be learned over and over again.
Damn! I got the Pamela Anderson and Blow to CMU football headlines blurred together.... I read something and Pamela Anderson and blowing.... I was expecting a new video release from her! :D
Quote: Why can't these kids get a clue? For scholarship athletes, nothing good is going to happen after 1) 1:00 AM 2) hanging with buddies 3) with beer involved. The real shame is that the same tough lessons have to be learned over and over again.
After the incident last summer, the entire team was banned from The Pub, and Kelly made it abundantly clear that he was disappointed in the players that were in the vicinity. We can hope the lesson was learned well enough to avoid further incidents...and not just by the players. :(
Wow that really sucks for him and it is a big blow for CMU.
If he lied to a grand jury, as a scholor/ahtlete, he should be dismissed. He has an obligation to the school. Again, he has not plead out or been convicted. If he walks, of course there shoiuld be no penalty.But if hes convicted, he should be done. BTW, whats going on up there in Mt. PLeasant ? Alot of chaotic criminal stuff since Kelly arrived D2 Grand Valley State..
[QUOTE] BTW, whats going on up there in Mt. PLeasant ? Alot of chaotic criminal stuff since Kelly arrived D2 Grand Valley State..
This is year 2 of kelly being the head coach. It was Deboring's players not kelly's, and Kelly suspended the star RB for his charge of contempt relating to the case. How can you say any of this is kelly's doing? What other "criminal stuff" is happening besides this one case?
Who is leading the program now. He could've kicked off any malcontents, its been done at other programs w/new coaches. Should we blame the HS coaches too ? Its Kelly kids and hes in charge and has been for a few years. His days at disciplined D2 GVSU have not altered my thinking either.
FWIW, he should get Sandy Bergers lawyer look at his sentence
<a href='http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,152108,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_st...,152108,00.html</a>
CMichFan Wrote:A few things:
1) As RF said, we don't have all the info here.
Ironic that several football players appear to be partially responsible for this.
Quote:Ironic that several football players appear to be partially responsible for this.
Ironic in what sense?
Quote:Who is leading the program now. He could've kicked off any malcontents, its been done at other programs w/new coaches. Should we blame the HS coaches too ? Its Kelly kids and hes in charge and has been for a few years. His days at disciplined D2 GVSU have not altered my thinking either.
The events in question happened in the early summer of 2004. Kelly had just taken the reins and conducted spring drills, and that's about it. Even "his" first recruiting class was guys that DeBord had pursued. After the beating at the Pub, Kelly stated that any CMU football player charged with any crime related to the incident would be suspended until all legal issues were resolved. He and/or the University will then discipline as appropriate. The first charges -- in this case, lying to a grandy jury -- were only made in the last couple of months. Jerry is the first active player to be charged with anything; the others had already exhausted their eligibility. True to his word, Kelly has suspended Seymour until the legal issues are resolved, one way or the other.
So...explain to me what he should have done prior to now, since no charges were previously issued? Is he supposed to be the Amazing Kreskin? We don't even know if any CMU student, player, or graduate actually took a hand in Graham's death. If so, the police aren't saying, nor is the judge. All we know is that players were in the area when it happened, period. If you know more, connerito, please make a full report to the Mt. Pleasant PD.
I heard the grand jury asked him how tall is was and he said 5'6. Now they bust him for lying! He needs Bill Clinton's attorney! Too late to get Johnny Cochran!
CMichFan Wrote:Quote:Ironic that several football players appear to be partially responsible for this.
Ironic in what sense?
In that we don't have all the info because several of those involved in the investigation are apparently not being truthful to investigators (or at the very least can't get their stories straight).
Quote:In that we don't have all the info because several of those involved in the investigation are apparently not being truthful to investigators (or at the very least can't get their stories straight).
We don't know if any of the accused (of lying) actually saw who beat Graham, so I'll withold my judgment on the alleged irony.
It doesn't help that the hour was late and many of the witnesses were both drunk and tired.
People sometimes lie in order to avoid police scrutiny of
any kind. What would be ironic in my book is if those convicted of lying to the judge did nothing wrong
except lying. Anyway, no new news as of this morning.
CMichFan Wrote:Quote:In that we don't have all the info because several of those involved in the investigation are apparently not being truthful to investigators (or at the very least can't get their stories straight).
We don't know if any of the accused (of lying) actually saw who beat Graham, so I'll withold my judgment on the alleged irony. It doesn't help that the hour was late and many of the witnesses were both drunk and tired.
People sometimes lie in order to avoid police scrutiny of any kind. What would be ironic in my book is if those convicted of lying to the judge did nothing wrong except lying. Anyway, no new news as of this morning.
I never said that the football team beat this kid to death, I merely stated the (seemingly) obvious - we don't know everything because, apparently, a couple of football players haven't given consistent stories. I have no idea if it is mere coincidence or not, but the judge thought strongly enough about it to jail them until they do get it straight.
I see what you're saying, HuskieDan. For the record, it's not only players who have been accused (and convicted) of lying to the Grand Jury: two other CMU students (non-athletes) have also been punished with 30 days in the county slammer. Also, police have said that they believe there are other potential witnesses, perhaps two dozen or more, who have never come forward, for whatever reason.