niu85alum Wrote:NIU70 Wrote:niu85alum Wrote:I know that people on this board disagree, but fact is Joe Novak runs a conservative offense in the mold of his main influences Bo Schemblechler, Woody Hayes and Bill Mallory.
The fact that Joe recruited Britt Davis shows he's open-minded. If you ever saw R-B play, and Britt run that offense (as did Brasic before him), you just have to know Joe has something in mind to utilize that talent.
Might a position switch be in the offing for Britt Davis sometime in the future? Dan Nicholson could become entrenched at QB for 3 seasons beginning next year. Plus, I have heard rumor that Davis was slow to learn within the Huskie system. He might make a quality safety or perhaps even a slot back.
You are the only one who is slow to learn. Britt hasn't even been in the system 1 full year. Slow to learn? Slow to learn what? You are as slow as your big bling friends who told you to go to boise.
crazywilly Wrote:On a side note maybe we ran conservative O's because we didn't have the QB's to make it a down the field attack...Finlin, Haldi, Horvath...ect.
DING DING DING DING!!! GIVE THE MAN A FRICKIN' CIGAR!
The one thing Joe has not had on the field at NIU is a top of the line QB. Josh was a fine QB that did a very good job for us, but he simply isn't as talented as others like Frye, Big Ben, Byron, Omar, Bruceyboy....etc.
Give Joe that top notch QB, and then we'll find out what he is willing to do on O. IMO, he has that choice now.
NIUJDK Wrote:You hit the nail on the head. Opponent's conversion of third and long was a definite problem in the last couple years. I still think back to Tole_o a couple years ago when Hickenbottom bit on the play action and 30 yards later down the field a new series of downs started and momentum changed entirely in the road game.
Not to really harp on this or anything, but it wasn't a new set of downs.....it was a touchdown. 3rd and 33 and we threw about a 50 yard TD pass to the tight end.
rocketfootball Wrote:NIUJDK Wrote:You hit the nail on the head. Opponent's conversion of third and long was a definite problem in the last couple years. I still think back to Tole_o a couple years ago when Hickenbottom bit on the play action and 30 yards later down the field a new series of downs started and momentum changed entirely in the road game.
Not to really harp on this or anything, but it wasn't a new set of downs.....it was a touchdown. 3rd and 33 and we threw about a 50 yard TD pass to the tight end.
Again with the knife twisting.
I hope we can repay the favor soon RF.
You are right. I can only remember jumping up and down and swearing. :crying:
I remember seeing like it was yesterday, the TE running with Hickenbottom in a distant pursuit. If I remember right, he was also an NIU recruit who went to Tole_o. That was like the ultimate knife in the back.
NIU70 Wrote:niu85alum Wrote:I know that people on this board disagree, but fact is Joe Novak runs a conservative offense in the mold of his main influences Bo Schemblechler, Woody Hayes and Bill Mallory.
The fact that Joe recruited Britt Davis shows he's open-minded. If you ever saw R-B play, and Britt run that offense (as did Brasic before him), you just have to know Joe has something in mind to utilize that talent.
+1. Britt Davis is a man-child at QB.
dynovinyl Wrote:rocketfootball Wrote:NIUJDK Wrote:You hit the nail on the head. Opponent's conversion of third and long was a definite problem in the last couple years. I still think back to Tole_o a couple years ago when Hickenbottom bit on the play action and 30 yards later down the field a new series of downs started and momentum changed entirely in the road game.
Not to really harp on this or anything, but it wasn't a new set of downs.....it was a touchdown. 3rd and 33 and we threw about a 50 yard TD pass to the tight end.
Again with the knife twisting.
Hey, I could have provided a link to the audio clip too........I was being nice this time.
HuskieFan84 Wrote:I hope we can repay the favor soon RF.
When you guys finally beat Toledo, us Rocket fans are going to get a lot of crap from you guys....aren't we?
Oh well, it's all in fun. It's not like we are talking about BG or anything. That isn't in fun; its a way of life and very serious.
NIUJDK Wrote:If I remember right, he was also an NIU recruit who went to Tole_o. That was like the ultimate knife in the back.
Yes, Andrew Clarke from Naperville. He picked Toledo over NIU. After sitting out last year with an injury, the NCAA has given him a medical hardship and he will have 1 more year of eligibility for this fall so he will be out there again in November.
The reason we havnt won with a pocket passer is because haldi sucked.
Lets face it. Haldi didnt throw a ton of interceptions but the kid wasnt that good. He never could have handled a passing offence.
We allready have the running game laid out. We need a great pocket passer to complement our running game.
I dont want the defence to go "wow, are they gonna run it with a RB or with a QB this time?"
They should be thinking "Crap, are the gonna pass it or run it??"
And whoever said it was right..running QBs are fun...but they dont bring home the bacon. Never have.
I concur. They are exciting to watch, like didn't we run a veer or wishbone back in the day that was exciting? I don't recollect how many bowls or conference championships that we had back then. Someone will have to refresh my memory.
Running QBs also tend to turn the ball over. Very very costly mistakes.
NIUJDK Wrote:I concur. They are exciting to watch, like didn't we run a veer or wishbone back in the day that was exciting? I don't recollect how many bowls or conference championships that we had back then. Someone will have to refresh my memory.
Running QBs also tend to turn the ball over. Very very costly mistakes.
Any stats or do we just believe you when you say it? Qb's who run turn the ball over.
I think the thing you guys are missing is that Running QB's have won it all, a bunch of times. Nebraska seemed to do just fine with a running qb, Charlie Ward seemed to do OK, hell what about doug flutie and steve young, both runners in college. But i guess they were not good enough for you guys. To say running qb's have never brought home the bacon is probably one of the dumbest things i have ever read. If you want to say that you just don't want a running qb that's fine, but to say that they aren't as good is just silly.
I mean we really have done great with pocket passers right?
0 MAC titles and all. Imagine if we had running qb's we would probably have.....Well 0 MAC titles!
Seems to me that no one brings home the bacon. :rofl:
I believe that I posted the passing and rushing statistics of all the D1 conference champions in a previous post. These were the statistics you chose to ignore earlier and dismiss as only going for the national championship as I recollect. I am glad to hear that you also like data. I can re-post it if you forgot. Utah's Alex Smith and someone else who escapes my memory at the moment were in designed option packages that were used occasionally. They were still far more likely to pass the ball. For the record, I would say that if the WB is running 10 times per game that he is a running quarterback. There is nothing wrong with escaping 4 - 6 times a game to gain yards if nothing is open downfield.
The point of the post was just that - show that with as many running QBs as there are in college today, almost every one of the conference champion quarterbacks were passers. They left the running to the RBs. QBs should be running the offense and completing passes to stretch the defense and, only as a last resort, running to avoid the sack.
As for our lack of success in winning the MAC in the last few years, if we had a defense that could hold Tole_o or Bowling Green to "only" 14 points, I would guess that we would have already won it. The offense is not the problem. I am not sure that we have a defense to stop pother teams, which is probably more indicative of who is going to win a conference of be high in the polls.
crazywilly Wrote:NIUJDK Wrote:crazywilly Wrote:NIUJDK Wrote:I guess another way to look at it is if the running game is that good, the passes should be that much easier to complete and we should not have to face 8 or 9 in the box. I also have a fear that a QB who shows flashes of running around and making plays, but doesn't lead his team to the promised land (MAC Championship and a bowl game in our case). Too easy to look back at the end of the year and say, "Gee, if only all those turnovers didn't happen. He looked great running the ball though. I hope the other team represents the MAC very well in the bowl game." We should be careful not to have "buyer's remorse."
Go Huskies!
How do you know a running QB wouldn't help us?
I mean could a running QB do worse than the past few QB's we have had? Which one of our past qb's won the MAC, or even made it to the MACC? Quick answer NONE.
So to say that a running qb may not do as well is silly, what could he not do, not win the MAC? Great no one has done that. We have made one bowl in 20 years, so i'm thinking that a series of running QB's or QB's with the ability to run would be hard pressed to do 'worse' than what we have done.
Who is the best running QB in the NFL? Michael Vick. Super Bowl rings? 0.
National champion QB 2005 - Leinert
National champion QB 2004 - Leinert / Mauck
National champion QB 2003 - Krenzel
The winning teams don't have running quarterbacks. they have quarterbacks who don't make a lot of mistakes, have decent strength arms that are accurate, and can avoid the sack. Reading the defense is also a key attribute to success.
If we were to analyze the conference winners I am pretty sure that we would see the same thing.
CONF Winner Quarterback Comp/Att/Int Rush/Yd/Ave Games Per GM Coaches
PAC 10 USC Matt Leinert 269-412-6 49-(44) -0.9 13 4-4 1
SEC Auburn Jason Campbell 188-270-7 58-30 0.5 13 4-2 2
Big 12 Oklahoma Jason White 255-390-9 23-(56) -2.4 13 2-(4) 3
MW Utah Alex Smith 241-317-4 135-631 4.7 12 11-53 5
C-USA Louisville Stefan Lefors 189-257-3 71-333 4.7 12 6-27 7
ACC Virginia Tech Bryan Randall 170-306-9 136-511 3.8 13 10-39 10
Big 10 Michigan Chad Henne 240-399-12 55-(137) -2.5 12 4-(11) 12
WAC Boise State Jared Zabransky 206-327-12 130-326 2.5 12 11-27 13
Big East Pittsburgh Tyler Palko 130-409-7 129-139 1.1 12 11-12 28
MAC NIU Josh Haldi 94-179-4 39-89 2.3 9 4-10 29
MAC Toled_o Bruce Gradkowski 280-399-8 91-191 2.1 13 7-15 38
Sun Belt N Texas State Scott Hall 134-237-4 61-11 0.2 12 5-1 -
Looks nicer on Excel, but essentially in analyzing each conference winner and comparing to 9 (really 8) games, you see what the other QBs represent - runners or passers. Essentially the overwhelming majority of the QBs are passers and not runners. A couple runners, Alex Smith and Jared Zabransky are in spread systems that want them to option and run. We do not employ that system. I don't know, it seems to me that the successful guys are not running the ball with their QBs.
Ummmmm are we going for a national title here?
Or are we trying to win the MAC? And how many points have been brought up that we have not won the mac with pocket guys, time to move on. Comparing us to those other teams with WR weapons is just stupid, I don't know what you are out to do here, but....It really seems like you hate davis. I'm thinking nicholson is my guy, but I 100% agree with everyone that pocket passers have not won the MAC here so I don't get what you are trying to do?
The NFL is not college football either by the way. Charlie ward, Andre ware...ect ect. Running QB's who won the heisman...So running QB's can do well in college, like lead a team to a championship game, MIKE VICK.
Found it.
I was surfing for some more stats, and noted that the top 7 QB ratings had 6 of the conference champ QBs.
<a href='http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/national%20rankings/IA_playerpasseff.html' target='_blank'>http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/nation...yerpasseff.html</a>
Interesting to see the correlation of winning to QB rating - knowing that ints have a major impact on the rating.
NIUJDK Wrote:I was surfing for some more stats, and noted that the top 7 QB ratings had 6 of the conference champ QBs.
<a href='http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/national%20rankings/IA_playerpasseff.html' target='_blank'>http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/nation...yerpasseff.html</a>
Interesting to see the correlation of winning to QB rating - knowing that ints have a major impact on the rating.
Great but how many of those QB's were our guys who won the MAC?
I don't care what USC can do with a pocket passer, I care what NIU can do, and we can't win it all so to say that a running qb won't do anything is stupid when we have never seen it.
I'm shocked that you guys have this much trouble understanding that what other programs do and can do has very little to do with us.
As long as we are trying to find the right formula for winning football, I did a little surfing, myself and noticed that 7 of the nation's top 8 running backs all went to bowl games.
<a href='http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_playerrush&site=org' target='_blank'>http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?di...errush&site=org</a>
crazywilly Wrote:NIUJDK Wrote:I was surfing for some more stats, and noted that the top 7 QB ratings had 6 of the conference champ QBs.
<a href='http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/national%20rankings/IA_playerpasseff.html' target='_blank'>http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/nation...yerpasseff.html</a>
Interesting to see the correlation of winning to QB rating - knowing that ints have a major impact on the rating.
Great but how many of those QB's were our guys who won the MAC?
I don't care what USC can do with a pocket passer, I care what NIU can do, and we can't win it all so to say that a running qb won't do anything is stupid when we have never seen it.
I'm shocked that you guys have this much trouble understanding that what other programs do and can do has very little to do with us.
Willy:
I agree 100%.
Alum
Huskie_Jon Wrote:As long as we are trying to find the right formula for winning football, I did a little surfing, myself and noticed that 7 of the nation's top 8 running backs all went to bowl games.
<a href='http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_playerrush&site=org' target='_blank'>http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?di...errush&site=org</a>
But then when we had turner in the top 5....
We all know what happened.
Once again who cares what other teams can do, let us see what we can do.