Recently I read two more posts, I believe on a Toledo and a Miami forum, from fans who felt their schools should do everything they could to move towards leaving the MAC and seeking a new conference home. This, they felt, was the best road for achieving the sports glory they yearned for.
Let's say, then, that we can separate two roads to glory. One is to commit firmly to staying in the MAC and working to strengthen it, the other is to do everything to seek a new conference home. Which one is most likely to succeed?
I vote for committing firmly to the MAC. Sure there is a lot of work to be done, but progress is being made.
My claim is simply this-- The odds for achieving success are better by staying in the MAC than by seeking a new conference home.
I could rattle off lots of reasons for thinking this way but I'll wait to see how this thread develops, if it does.
I'm in agreement with you.
Too many folks think they'll get a path to success by jumping to another conference. Never mind that they ruin the ingredients that make a conference successful: regional rivalries, managable costs, established tradition...
The Big 12 was successful b/c they managed to include all of these things in their expansion.
Likewise, the SEC didn't ignore these ingredients.
Meanwhile, Giant-sized WAC was a bust, and CUSA has not been successful, while the new SBC looks very promising now that it has a clear and focused vision.
The current MAC is the path to success for the teams involved. Jumping now will set any team back, unless it's to the Big 10.
DrTorch Wrote:, and CUSA has not been successful,
What? Explain this.
And don't just give me the "it's not the MAC" BS.
The Knight Time Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:, and CUSA has not been successful,
What? Explain this.
And don't just give me the "it's not the MAC" BS.
It's going through a major re-organization. It has high membership fees. There was much strife between members.
It's previous incarnation was successful in basketball, but as an all-sports effort, I don't think it worked particularly well.
It's new incarnation manages to keep the negatives w/o much upside. Certainly that's been my position, as I've stated on this board often, and I think others agree. You don't have to, but it's not meant to be a flame toward FCU or mug.
DrTorch Wrote:The Knight Time Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:, and CUSA has not been successful,
What? Explain this.
And don't just give me the "it's not the MAC" BS.
It's going through a major re-organization. It has high membership fees. There was much strife between members.
It's previous incarnation was successful in basketball, but as an all-sports effort, I don't think it worked particularly well.
It's new incarnation manages to keep the negatives w/o much upside. Certainly that's been my position, as I've stated on this board often, and I think others agree. You don't have to, but it's not meant to be a flame toward FCU or mug.
When a conference loses it marquee schools it can not in anyway be considered successful.
Their top BBall schools gone, their top football schools gone.
I would say the same if Toldeo, MU and BG left the MAC.
BobL Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:The Knight Time Wrote:DrTorch Wrote:, and CUSA has not been successful,
What? Explain this.
And don't just give me the "it's not the MAC" BS.
It's going through a major re-organization. It has high membership fees. There was much strife between members.
It's previous incarnation was successful in basketball, but as an all-sports effort, I don't think it worked particularly well.
It's new incarnation manages to keep the negatives w/o much upside. Certainly that's been my position, as I've stated on this board often, and I think others agree. You don't have to, but it's not meant to be a flame toward FCU or mug.
When a conference loses it marquee schools it can not in anyway be considered successful.
Their top BBall schools gone, their top football schools gone.
I would say the same if Toldeo, MU and BG left the MAC.
And were replaced by Appy St. and Grand Valley St.
Not that the MAC doesnt have an identity crisis... but CUSA is even worse then the MAC...
No geographic alliances, no focus for athletics... when you are spread from Texas to Wisconsin to Florida and some other states inbetween you have a tremendous cross section of the US but not alot of balance.
CUSA has individually great teams in different sports, and with the exception of basketball did not have a presence as a collective group.
The MAC has had the football nation on notice over CUSA, regardless of what many people think, five different teams in five years have cracked the top 15 in the major polls.
CUSA basketball was all over the MAC until recently... although UAB and Memphis are good schools, the MAC may now have an advantage in depth.
It will be interesting to see how things pan out.
Santa Fe Falcon Wrote:Recently I read two more posts, I believe on a Toledo and a Miami forum, from fans who felt their schools should do everything they could to move towards leaving the MAC and seeking a new conference home.
We have people who occasionally say that at AZZ.com.
They are idiots, too.
redskins4ever Wrote:Not that the MAC doesnt have an identity crisis... but CUSA is even worse then the MAC...
No geographic alliances, no focus for athletics... when you are spread from Texas to Wisconsin to Florida and some other states inbetween you have a tremendous cross section of the US but not alot of balance.
First off, "identity crises" don't exist in college sports. If you win, people know who you are. Period.
Secondly, you say being spread out is a bad thing, but most people would really argue that having your entire league virtually in Ohio and Michigan makes your conference a regional presence only which will handicap you expanding your exposure outwards.
I view having teams in Texas, Florida, Miss, WV, and New Orleans as a very GOOD thing.
The Knight Time Wrote:redskins4ever Wrote:Not that the MAC doesnt have an identity crisis... but CUSA is even worse then the MAC...
No geographic alliances, no focus for athletics... when you are spread from Texas to Wisconsin to Florida and some other states inbetween you have a tremendous cross section of the US but not alot of balance.
First off, "identity crises" don't exist in college sports. If you win, people know who you are. Period.
Tell that to the guy on the phone in show who said Randy Moss was from, "Marshall State". And how about the folks wondering if Marquette is in WI or MI.
Quote:Secondly, you say being spread out is a bad thing, but most people would really argue that having your entire league virtually in Ohio and Michigan makes your conference a regional presence only which will handicap you expanding your exposure outwards.
Perhaps. But the MAC has had a presence in IN for a long time. Don't ignore the presence in IL (and most NIU folks will say that NIU and the MAC are very complimentary; that is, NIU leaving the MAC didn't pan out very well). That's 4 contiguous states that have many ties and many similarities. That helps w/ the rivalries and interest. Nearby western NY opens up new markets w/o the liabilities of huge travel increases.
Moreover, the schools are all similar in mission, size and stature. Once again, that gives the conference and identity. Mixing in small private or religious schools w/ large state schools often yields imbalance (see Vanderbilt), and differing mission statements leads to resentment in fairly short order.
Quote:I view having teams in Texas, Florida, Miss, WV, and New Orleans as a very GOOD thing.
You can talk about how the MAC is concentrated in 2 states, but that does give the conference some traction in terms of coverage. Being spread out over half the country means you're even less of an afterthought behind the BCS teams.
You think CUSAs footprint is an advantage. Most of us disagree. Time will tell.
cusa had more bowls than any other non bcs conf.... it had the biggest tv deal of any non bcs conf... and when the bcs BE had to expand it went to cusa for all its new schools...there was a reason for this... CUSA was by far the most successful non bcs conf. with the shake up... It had its choice of new members from other non bcs for a reason... it just signed the 2nd biggest non bcs tv deal for a reason... and will end up with 4 or 5 bowls.. either tied for or having the most of any non bcs again... they have been quite successful as i see it ... the only thing they have failed to do is break into the bcs.
I have seen very few posts on the UT board regarding leaving the MAC.
You must have read OU's board.
If we do leave the MAC, I hope that its for something better than CUSA!
More CUSA bowl games!
Yes, we enjoy beating you. Thanks Falcons, Hawks, and Rockets vs Cinci. (Oh, they left)
DrTorch Wrote:The Knight Time Wrote:redskins4ever Wrote:Not that the MAC doesnt have an identity crisis... but CUSA is even worse then the MAC...
No geographic alliances, no focus for athletics... when you are spread from Texas to Wisconsin to Florida and some other states inbetween you have a tremendous cross section of the US but not alot of balance.
First off, "identity crises" don't exist in college sports. If you win, people know who you are. Period.
Tell that to the guy on the phone in show who said Randy Moss was from, "Marshall State". And how about the folks wondering if Marquette is in WI or MI.
Quote:Secondly, you say being spread out is a bad thing, but most people would really argue that having your entire league virtually in Ohio and Michigan makes your conference a regional presence only which will handicap you expanding your exposure outwards.
Perhaps. But the MAC has had a presence in IN for a long time. Don't ignore the presence in IL (and most NIU folks will say that NIU and the MAC are very complimentary; that is, NIU leaving the MAC didn't pan out very well). That's 4 contiguous states that have many ties and many similarities. That helps w/ the rivalries and interest. Nearby western NY opens up new markets w/o the liabilities of huge travel increases.
Moreover, the schools are all similar in mission, size and stature. Once again, that gives the conference and identity. Mixing in small private or religious schools w/ large state schools often yields imbalance (see Vanderbilt), and differing mission statements leads to resentment in fairly short order.
Quote:I view having teams in Texas, Florida, Miss, WV, and New Orleans as a very GOOD thing.
You can talk about how the MAC is concentrated in 2 states, but that does give the conference some traction in terms of coverage. Being spread out over half the country means you're even less of an afterthought behind the BCS teams.
You think CUSAs footprint is an advantage. Most of us disagree. Time will tell.
Most of your post I will agree with, except your Illinois statement.
Nearly my entire family lives in Illinois still. My dad attended UI, my mom went to WIU. I can vouch that first off, Illinois as a state really doesn't care about college sports. Professional sports take ALL the cake and if there is room for a college story, then maybe they'll put one. Illinois' final four run this year was the first time the state was "buzzing" with college fever.
Having said that, NIU draws very little attention throughout the state, or even the region they are in. I have 2 cousins at NIU and he said the coverage of the Huskies is near non existent.
The Knight Time Wrote:Most of your post I will agree with, except your Illinois statement.
Nearly my entire family lives in Illinois still. My dad attended UI, my mom went to WIU. I can vouch that first off, Illinois as a state really doesn't care about college sports. Professional sports take ALL the cake and if there is room for a college story, then maybe they'll put one. Illinois' final four run this year was the first time the state was "buzzing" with college fever.
Having said that, NIU draws very little attention throughout the state, or even the region they are in. I have 2 cousins at NIU and he said the coverage of the Huskies is near non existent.
I think that has changed in the past couple of years. Last year one of the Chicago area TV stations did a poll on their site for which Illinois school had the best football team. NIU won that poll pretty easily. The recognition is there. NIU has also had a lot of football stories in different Chicago area newspapers this offseason.
NIU, Toledo, and WMU all got some really good recruits from Illinois. A couple of NIU's in-state recruits were big time players that said that NIU's successful program was a major factor in their decision.
rocketfootball Wrote:The Knight Time Wrote:Most of your post I will agree with, except your Illinois statement.
Nearly my entire family lives in Illinois still. My dad attended UI, my mom went to WIU. I can vouch that first off, Illinois as a state really doesn't care about college sports. Professional sports take ALL the cake and if there is room for a college story, then maybe they'll put one. Illinois' final four run this year was the first time the state was "buzzing" with college fever.
Having said that, NIU draws very little attention throughout the state, or even the region they are in. I have 2 cousins at NIU and he said the coverage of the Huskies is near non existent.
I think that has changed in the past couple of years. Last year one of the Chicago area TV stations did a poll on their site for which Illinois school had the best football team. NIU won that poll pretty easily. The recognition is there. NIU has also had a lot of football stories in different Chicago area newspapers this offseason.
NIU, Toledo, and WMU all got some really good recruits from Illinois. A couple of NIU's in-state recruits were big time players that said that NIU's successful program was a major factor in their decision.
NIU's coverage has improved exponentially now that we've been successful on the football field. We had all but one game televised in 2004, and our spring game was broadcast on the radio for the first time ever. Sunday's Tribune and Sun-Times each had articles about our spring game and facility announcement, including the artist's rendering of the facility in the ST.
Coverage of NIU has been pathetic over time. It is improving drastically as we improved drastically.
The Knight Time Wrote:Having said that, NIU draws very little attention throughout the state, or even the region they are in. I have 2 cousins at NIU and he said the coverage of the Huskies is near non existent.
But NIU is in a growth area. Their attendance reflects that. Even if IL is a pro-sports state, NIU will get their fans.
Many of the new CUSA are in growth areas too. That's good for them too. But, if the natural rivalries aren't there, I don't think you'll generate a ton of interest.
Remember when the Bengals and the Oilers had a bit of a rivalry? Or when the Lakers and Celtics were feuding? Those were personality driven, but temporal. Meanwhile, Cleveland hates Pittsburgh and Bears/Packers means something even when the teams are up, down, or in-between.
goodknightfl Wrote:cusa had more bowls than any other non bcs conf.... it had the biggest tv deal of any non bcs conf... and when the bcs BE had to expand it went to cusa for all its new schools...there was a reason for this... CUSA was by far the most successful non bcs conf. with the shake up... It had its choice of new members from other non bcs for a reason... it just signed the 2nd biggest non bcs tv deal for a reason... and will end up with 4 or 5 bowls.. either tied for or having the most of any non bcs again... they have been quite successful as i see it ... the only thing they have failed to do is break into the bcs.
There's an awful lot of past tense in there...
-Dan
Photodan Wrote:goodknightfl Wrote:cusa had more bowls than any other non bcs conf.... it had the biggest tv deal of any non bcs conf... and when the bcs BE had to expand it went to cusa for all its new schools...there was a reason for this... CUSA was by far the most successful non bcs conf. with the shake up... It had its choice of new members from other non bcs for a reason... it just signed the 2nd biggest non bcs tv deal for a reason... and will end up with 4 or 5 bowls.. either tied for or having the most of any non bcs again... they have been quite successful as i see it ... the only thing they have failed to do is break into the bcs.
There's an awful lot of past tense in there...
-Dan
:rofl:
I was thinking the same thing, Dan.
A conference so good that six teams took the next offer to get out.
Take the accomlishments of the departing teams away from that post and...
I'm going to see if I can return this thread to its original purpose.
It raises this question--what road leads to the best chances for success?:
1)committing firmly to the MAC and working to improve it, or
2)seeking a home in a new conference?
I feel strongly that the first road leads to the best chances for success.
Here are a couple of reasons why I think this way.
The MAC has achieved a position through better scheduling, better recruiting, etc. where it can prove itself ON THE FIELD against top flight competition. It has created an opportunity for itself. Now it has to seize that opportunity.
Also, the MAC now has earned adequate TV exposure to showcase its talent on a national scale. Here again, it needs to seize the opportunity.
The problems faced by the MAC are pretty well documented. But here is a key point. We don't have to raise the quality of all or even the majority our members before achieving success and recognition at the national level. We need several quality teams, let's say a minimum of 4 or 5, to change our national perception.
I think the chances of doing this are greater by firmly committing to the MAC than by seeking a new conference home.