CSNbbs

This will be on the web site in a few days. Free access in a few weeks.

Inc. measures job growth, current year growth, avg annual growth for 3 years, and growth over a range of industries and sectors. See mag for more details.

#11- No. Virginia. For a place that isn't even 1/1000 as nice as Chicago, it keeps doing well. "Strong high-tech and business-services base."

#16- Phoenix. So why are they depressed?

#20- Orlando.

#28- Wash DC
#29- Sub Wash DC- Maryland- Don't tell me that Dems don't kill business.

#49- Cincy
#96- Cleveland
#126- Columbus

And for those of you who love irony
#141 (tied) Chicago, IL/ Lima, OH

#174- Buffalo
#192- Akron

#198- Youngstown-Warren

#201- Toledo
#202- Dayton

#213- Detroit
#217- Ann Arbor

#243- Canton
#263- Kalamazoo
(Lot of low ranking Mich cities)

And last (seroiusly) but not least-
#274- Muncie, IN "Down, Not out. Name a big employer in Muncie and it's probably moved out or downsized. Manufacturing and retail have been hard hit, both plummeting 19% since 2001. Still, locals remain optimistic, pointing to a new $73M auto-parts facility and a year-old angel investor network."

My take? MAC universities are not taking enough initiative to help their communities. They need a clearer vision as to what markets are developing and how they can help provide opportunities to those markets.

DrTorch Wrote:Don't tell me that Dems don't kill business.

Just because they don't suck its dick doesn't mean that they kill it.

By any objective measure, it costs more to do business in my neck of the Maryland 'burbs than in northern Virginia. On the flip side, we have marginally more sensible roadways, great public services, and access to the NIH, which seems to have fueled a lot of biotech start-ups.

DC is more expensive than either, but there are over-riding reasons to be here anyway if you are in the professional services business. Most big law firms could save a ton on rent by moving to Crystal City and really wouldn't be that much farther away from the agencies and the Hill. But the Washington address seems to keep us here -- clients expect it.

Whether it's industry or the weather, it's not surprising that Michigan cities bring up the rear in these types of lists. The state is a one-trick industry pony, and just an overall undesirable place to live and work. Most people live here for family and other obligations that are difficult to separate from.

I'm not sure there's much MAC universities can do. Even the UM institutional juggernaut didn't save Ann Arbor's low ranking (lower than Detroit, which was surprising).

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."

-Dan

DevilGrad Wrote:By any objective measure, it costs more to do business in my neck of the Maryland 'burbs than in northern Virginia. On the flip side, we have marginally more sensible roadways, ,

Three words: Great Seneca Highway. Seriously, the roads in VA are better. It's a myth that it's worse over here, the average commute is shorter.

Quote:great public services

The schools are better in VA.

Quote:and access to the NIH, which seems to have fueled a lot of biotech start-ups.

That is MD's claim that they are going to pass up No VA in this decade.

Quote:DC is more expensive than either, but there are over-riding reasons to be here anyway if you are in the professional services business.  Most big law firms could save a ton on rent by moving to Crystal City and really wouldn't be that much farther away from the agencies and the Hill.  But the Washington address seems to keep us here -- clients expect it.

DC is a different animal than the suburbs. MD and VA are virtual twins. Both get heaps of help from the fed gov't. That VA is ahead says something, IMO.

Motown Bronco Wrote:Whether it's industry or the weather, it's not surprising that Michigan cities bring up the rear in these types of lists. The state is a one-trick industry pony, and just an overall undesirable place to live and work. Most people live here for family and other obligations that are difficult to separate from.

I'm not sure there's much MAC universities can do. Even the UM institutional juggernaut didn't save Ann Arbor's low ranking (lower than Detroit, which was surprising).

Yeah, well take all of this w/ a grain of salt. Atlanta plummeted on this year's list. I haven't read the article yet, but if the business environment is truly great, shouldn't that carry some momentum?

DevilGrad Wrote:On the flip side, we have marginally more sensible roadways,

Once again, you were saying DG

<a href='http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050426/ap_on_re_us/roaming_buffalo' target='_blank'>http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a...roaming_buffalo</a>

Folks in Muncie are rightly confused by this ranking. About nine months ago, Money Magazine ranked the city as one of the nation's "up and coming" cities to do business, citing the new tech park and the downtown re-development, among other factors. The economic director for Bloomington, Ind., which shot up from #220-something to #19 this year, said she suspects that Muncie will shoot back up in the rankings next year, when a new employer opens their facility in town, adding nearly 1,000 new jobs to the local economy. She said that Bloomington has used some of Muncie's re-development efforts as a model for their own.

Ball State has tried for years to invest in the community, but only recently have city officials been open and willing to work together. For too long, there was a powerful segment of the local population that has had some ridiculous animosity towards the university, even when the university was reaching out. Finally, that appears to have lessened and the city is embracing the term "college town" instead of shunning it.

It's a good thing, because for a while there, the only university I had seen with a worse town-gown relationship was the one between South Bend and ND (you wanna talk about some locals that HATE the hometown university... whoa. Even some die-hard Irish football fans in the area try not to spend too much money on or near campus, because they are sick of the university just rolling over the city and county.)


The Chicago-Lima, OH comparison, though, essentially renders these rankings devoid of any credibility. That's just too laughable to even merit a reply.

DrTorch Wrote:Great Seneca Highway.

Don't look at me. I know nothing about Baja Frederick. We looked at a few houses out that way, and the only advantages to them I could come up with were that (a) they were new construction and (b ) they were an hour closer to my mom and dad's house . . . in Spencerville.

As for the schools, we've been very pleased. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

If you compare the northern MD burb schools with the VA schools, they are not much different and both have some first rate schools within those big systems. If you factor in the PG Co. schools, any measure would give the edge to VA. If the measure includes comparable economic factors, they are about the same. The high cost real estate areas have better schools, as usual, no matter which state they are in.

Papa Lou BSU Wrote:Folks in Muncie are rightly confused by this ranking. About nine months ago, Money Magazine ranked the city as one of the nation's "up and coming" cities to do business,

"Up and coming" tends to be forward-looking, whereas the Inc. Magazine article was based mostly on recent history.

Quote:The Chicago-Lima, OH comparison, though, essentially renders these rankings devoid of any credibility. That's just too laughable to even merit a reply.

Or some readers lack the understanding of how percentages and other forms of relative measure work.

End of discussion.

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axeme Wrote:If you compare the northern MD burb schools with the VA schools, they are not much different and both have some first rate schools within those big systems. If you factor in the PG Co. schools, any measure would give the edge to VA. If the measure includes comparable economic factors, they are about the same. The high cost real estate areas have better schools, as usual, no matter which state they are in.

Metrics?

Even the Wash Post conceded that there was no correlation to standardized test-scores vs economic factors the Suburban Md area (this was a few years ago mind you).

Why wouldn't you factor in PG County? No Virginia typically includes several counties: Fairfax, Arlington, and P William counties, maybe Louden too.

Honestly, Montgomery Cty Maryland schools leave much to be desired, especially when economic factors are considered. Howard County schools are actually quite good. PG County schools respond, "Thank goodness for Baltimore". While Baltimore schools tend to set records for new lows.

It's not that I wouldn't factor in PG Co., but that it is an different animal than the adjacent VA counties. Even Mont. Co. gets skewed downward with its low income areas, though it's best schools are as good as any.
My point was if you look at all the surrounding counties (though I think Loudon is a bit of a stretch) no doubt No. VA would measure out better, but if you look at the places in each where you and DG might actually want to live, there's not much difference.
The strongest correlation to individual academic success remains the educational level of the mother, btw.

axeme Wrote:but if you look at the places in each where you and DG might actually want to live, there's not much difference.

I liked living in Laurel. Much better than my time in Gaithersburg. Remember, I'm the guy who was happy living around Lima.

Besides, PG County isn't really low income. Not by any means. Yet except for Elanor Roosevelt HS, and maybe Bowie, their schools have been in turmoil.

Quote:The strongest correlation to individual academic success remains the educational level of the mother, btw.

My children's mother was educated enough to marry me. Take that FWIW!
Seriously, that's a very interesting factoid.

axeme Wrote:The strongest correlation to individual academic success remains the educational level of the mother, btw.

I sure hope that step-mothers count.

Oddball Wrote:

axeme Wrote:The strongest correlation to individual academic success remains the educational level of the mother, btw.

I sure hope that step-mothers count.

If they can't, they won't have a very high educational level, will they?

axeme Wrote:

Oddball Wrote:

axeme Wrote:The strongest correlation to individual academic success remains the educational level of the mother, btw.

I sure hope that step-mothers count.

If they can't, they won't have a very high educational level, will they?

Good point. :eek:

DrTorch Wrote:

axeme Wrote:but if you look at the places in each where you and DG might actually want to live, there's not much difference.

I liked living in Laurel. Much better than my time in Gaithersburg. Remember, I'm the guy who was happy living around Lima.

Besides, PG County isn't really low income. Not by any means. Yet except for Elanor Roosevelt HS, and maybe Bowie, their schools have been in turmoil.

Quote:The strongest correlation to individual academic success remains the educational level of the mother, btw.

My children's mother was educated enough to marry me. Take that FWIW!
Seriously, that's a very interesting factoid.

I live in Gaithersburg now. Not too often i see it mentioned in any posts! We're looking to get out of our townhouse and into a single family home somewhere in Montgomery county. I need to win the lottery.