What happened to a program that once excelled??
Central Michigan- Once the most feared team in the MAC. Fans showed up @ 9am and PACKED the house every game.
Western Michigan - Once always a contender- now a pretender...Maybe the best facilities in the MAC. Fan support second to none.
Ball State- 5 championships in their first 20 years in the league. Now an afterthought when disscussing MAC football.
These three programs have'nt suffered the ages of mediocrity that (now don’t get your panties in a wad kids) teams such as Kent, Akron, Ohio, Eastern, and UB have yet they now are relagated to ranking below them today (OK maybe not below UB ;-)
SO WHAT THE F_CK HAPPENED???!!! AND WHY!!!!??
My "two cents" as an interested MAC follower.......the impact of Coaching is many times underestimated, especially at non-BCS schools where you struggle for scheduling, recruits, etc.
CMU was a long-standing top-notch MAC football program, all under the long-term guidance of Herd Deromedi....they haven't done much of anything since he left even though they expanded and improved Kelly Shorts into a fine stadium.
At BSU, Paul Schudel was a good Head Coach who grew impatient with the lack of support from the administration. Bill Lynch inherited a team that would win the MAC (96?) the next season, only to fall into mediocrity ever since. BSU's stadium was one of the MAC's worst (if not the worst), but they have made great strides in improvements, and in fact today I got an email from my brother who met with the AD the other day (while looking into leasing a suite when they finish the stadium) that said that $10MM of the needed $12MM for the next phase of improvments has been pledged.
WMU: Not as certain as to why WMU went "south"....can't all be attributed to Coaching changes obviously. I'll let our WMU brethran speak to that....
Postscript comment on Chip fans: When I was in my late 20's I lived in Midland, MI, which is only 30 minutes from Mt. Pleasant, and used to go to lotsa Chip football and b-ball games (esp. when my alma Mater was in town!). One of my best friends was a former CMU back-up QB (in the late 70's/early 80's), and we used to enjoy tailgating and going to the Chip games together.
Anyway, one time I was at one of the local student hang-outs (Wayside or something??), and they started playing the Chip fight song on the juke box like they do in Columbus for the Buckeyes....well, the whole place began singing the song, something I'd never seen in Oxford during my undergraduate days there. Suffice to say that when the Chips were winning, they had rabid fans..........and they will return once the Chipsters start winning again I would think.
The Chips had something special going ten years ago. They brought a ton of fans to Bowling Green for the '94 championship game.
Ten years of mediocrity have really taken their toll there. Those are good fans up there, and they deserve better.
yeah we are just aching for this program to turn around. I am very upbeat about coach kelly, he has that fire when you listen to him and see him on the field. A lot has happened since 1994, and most of it not good. However there was a good student body turnout last season considering where the program has been. We beat rival WMU last season for first time in 4 attempts. This season we have a great home schedule Indiana, Toledo, EMU, Ohio, and NIU. We are returning a good offense and some depth in the secondary. It is about time we come back onto the scene and start playing compeitive again
What happened was Gary Darnell got full of himself after back to back west division championships and thought he should be the next coach at UNC. It hurt his recruiting. We now have the guy that was responsible for our winning offense at head coach. It won’t be long before the Broncos are back on top and some of the people on here that are currently beating their chest will be lamenting the downward slide of their team.
We CMU fans haven't had much to brag about the past decade, but I for one am hopeful that Coach Kelly can bring the football program back to respectability soon.
I think Kelly is doing a good job recruiting and CMU will see positive results in the next few years.
It wasn't that long ago when BG and NIU were the bottom feeders of the league. Just goes to show that, with out the right coach, your program can go down hill in a hurry. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the Big 4 falls off the map in the next 5 years and a team like CMU takes its place.
Jack, I think you are right about one of the big four falling but I don't think it will take five years to happen.
Northern Illinois and Bowling Green are relatively new members of the top four, having spent time on the bottom of the heap not too long ago. They will probably hold their top positions for a while longer. Miami had a great run with Rothlesburger (sp) and Toledo has had an outstanding run over the past five years.
However, as I have said before, history tells us no team in the MAC can maintain a high level of success in football forever, and five years is beginning to approach "forever." As I see it, look for Toledo or Miami to start a downward slide in the next couple of years.
The bigger question, however, is which teams will replace the ones that fall? But I think we have already covered that topic in other posts on this board.
Look what happened with Blackney at BGSU…..first he is a three year hero and then next a villain to be gotten rid of. It has happened with most schools and will continue top happen with most schools.
We have had a nice run over the past five years. We've also only had one or two losing seasons since 1990. It is tough to stay at the top, but I doubt that we will fall off to the point of a cellar dwellar anytime soon. :wave:
TampaRocket Wrote:We have had a nice run over the past five years. We've also only had one or two losing seasons since 1990. It is tough to stay at the top, but I doubt that we will fall off to the point of a cellar dwellar anytime soon. :wave:
I think the Rockets are looking good for another 4 years.A headcoach
with a winning formula that is not a job jumper leads to alot of stability in a program.Meyers and Sabans,that can quickly turn programs around are few.Unless someone like that comes into the MAC, I see Akron making the greatest strides.
midlandchip Wrote:Jack, I think you are right about one of the big four falling but I don't think it will take five years to happen.
Northern Illinois and Bowling Green are relatively new members of the top four, having spent time on the bottom of the heap not too long ago. They will probably hold their top positions for a while longer. Miami had a great run with Rothlesburger (sp) and Toledo has had an outstanding run over the past five years.
However, as I have said before, history tells us no team in the MAC can maintain a high level of success in football forever, and five years is beginning to approach "forever." As I see it, look for Toledo or Miami to start a downward slide in the next couple of years.
The bigger question, however, is which teams will replace the ones that fall? But I think we have already covered that topic in other posts on this board.
I guess it depends on what you think a downward slide is. For Toledo, we could have a losing season.....maybe even two..........and then be right back at the top. Toledo's run is more than just 5 years. Our last losing season was in 1993. The last losing season before that was 1987. So in the last 17 years Toledo has had two losing seasons. In the last 25 years Toledo has had just 4 losing seasons and won 6 MAC Championships. Yes, Toledo could go through a losing trend at some point but don't count on it anytime soon.
Miami University is another school not to expect to slide. Their last losing season was in 1993 also. Miami has had just 6 losing seasons in the last 25 years, only two more than Toledo.
I don't expect to see Toledo or Miami going anywhere in the near future. I would be surprised to see either Toledo or Miami fall off in the next 10-15 years, except for maybe a couple of seasons here or there.
Pretty much the same thing with Bowling Green. They have had some down time in between there strong years, but more times than not they are near the top of the MAC. They have had more down time than Toledo and Miami, but 20 years from now (looking back at 2005-2024) I wouldn't be surprised to see the same pattern that we have seen over the last 20 years.
NIU has the best chance of falling out of the top four because Novak has to retire some time. However, it does seem like NIU has a strong program.
Falling out of the top four doesn't mean they have to have a losing season. A stretch of 6-6, 7-5 and 6-6 would qualify as falling out of the top four and becoming mediocre. Any of the top four, with maybe the exception of Toledo, could start having .500 or 7-5 average seasons any time. A team like Western could have 8-4 or 9-3 seasons soon too.
bronco67 Wrote:Look what happened with Blackney at BGSU…..first he is a three year hero and then next a villain to be gotten rid of. It has happened with most schools and will continue top happen with most schools.
I agree....Blackney was practically unbeatable from 91-94, going 36-8-2. But many of us feel he got a bit lazy with recruiting plus had family issues that contributed to BG's fall from the top. BG went 5-6, 4-7, 3-8, 5-6, 5-6 and 2-9 his last five years. Certainly not the bottom of the barrel except for 2000's 2-9 record.
Look at Oklahoma in the mid 90's...4 straight losing seasons. While it doesn't happen on the BCS level as much, it does happen.
When Brandon (cuz it will happen) leaves BGSU, most of us feel Greg Studrawa (Coach Stud) would be the logical choice to replace him. Stud played on the BG offensive line from 82-86 and was part of 2 MAC Championship teams. He has been the OC/Assistant HC the last 2 years under Brandon.
Academics always play a big part of one the top tier teams falling. So thats must be considered. Out of one of the teams taking off, I like WMU. They have a seasoned QB w/one of the best WRs in the nation (also a great TE). The greatest problem is their defense was giving up numbers that were flat out awesome over 40 points a game.
The new coach can recruit and had a great class considering and was instrumental w/the players the previous coach won with before his exit. Had Cubit stayed there ( took OC position's @ Mizzou, Rutgers and Stanford) there would be talks of dynasties not disasters @ Kzoo.
I admire Hoke at Ball State, at least hes getting the ship in order by ridding the garbage while building it up. I hope Kelly can follow this pathway @ CMU.
Miami seems to have fallen from grace a lot harder than the other teams mentioned. Yes, BSU, WMU and CMU fell down the MAC ladder - but wasn't Miami a national power in the 70s?
You had a 7-0 run against SEC schools at some point.
How did that happen? How did that not warrant some kind of move to the Big 10 or something.
Also - way back when, was the MAC overall this strong or was Miami an outlier?
Thanks.
st932253 Wrote:You had a 7-0 run against SEC schools at some point.
How did that happen? How did that not warrant some kind of move to the Big 10 or something.
Conferences are usually about more than sports, and the Big Ten is a prime example.
Miami has always been more of a liberal arts, undergraduate-oriented institution. That's not really the Big Ten mold.
Quote:Also - way back when, was the MAC overall this strong or was Miami an outlier?
Toledo went three years without a loss 1969-71. Its schedules were not as strong -- but 35-0 is still 35-0. It was enough to get 'em ranked in at least two of those years.
It's also worth noting that Bowling Green beat a ranked Purdue once and Syracuse twice during that era -- but never managed to win a MAC title.
Not sure whether or not Miami was an outlier. But I can say the MAC was a good little league back then.
As quaint as it may sound, back in the Seventies, teams joined conferences and stayed there. Besides, in the days before cable TV and NCAA v. Oklahoma there were no compelling financial reasons for major conferences to expand. IIRC, the only major conference moves from 1965 until the formation of the Big East for hoops involved teams being dismissed from their leagues for proved or alleged improprieties and the formation of the Metro Conference (which never coalesced for football).
That said, the old-timers at MHT tell me that there was some talk in those days of Miami replacing Northwestern in the Big Ten. Ultimately, the Big Ten decided it could tolerate NU's athletic program in exchange for keeping it around as a member of the Council on Institutional Cooperation (the Big Ten's research/academic arm).
Finally, as Schad noted, Miami isn't a full-fledged institutional match to the other 12 CIC schools. (Yes, twelve. The University of Chicago still belongs to the Big Ten for academic purposes.)
st: After Toledo made its impressive "run" in football from 69-71 Miami came along with MAC championships in 4 out of 5 years. In three of those chamionship years (73, 74, 75), Miami was nationally ranked and beat Florida, Georgia and So. Carolina in bowl games.
Coming into th e1976 season Miami was pre-season ranked by SI, but we lost to N. Carolina 14-10 partly due to a trick play (pretended to huddle up but sent a receiver out for a TD), and our best player (RB Rob Carpenter) suffered a deep thigh bruise that would hinder him most of the season. Anyway, Miami "fell down" with a 3-8 record, and the timing couldn't have been worse for the MAC as the agreement with the Tangerine Bowl had ended with the MAC Head Shed thinking that Miami might be destined for even a better bowl destination.
The next season Miami won the MAC again witha 10-1 overall record, but did not get a bowl spot (remember, there were half as many bowls back then), and then the MAC didn't line up a bowl guarantee for our champ until the old Cal Bowl came together in 1981. Miami was decent through most all of this timeframe, with a second place finish a couple of times and then another MAC championship in 1986, but under Tim Rose (new Coach after Tom Reed left for N. Carolina) our program went into a deep decline capped off by a winless season in 1988. Remember, Miami went from WWII to 1976 without even one losing season, and now we went 0-10-1 followed by 2-8-1. Rose was fired and Randy Walker was hired, and then Miami quickly came back to respectable again.
The irony of the Walker years was that as good as we were some seasons, we just couldn't seem to win a MAC title. In 95 we even beat the B10 champ, tied eventual MAC champ Toledo but lost in the last second to Ball State, and in 98 we only lost once to Marshall to finish 10-1. So, it wasn't like Miami didn't field very good teams in the 90's, but we just couldn't seem to get "over the hump" in winning back a MAC title until 2003, with a couple of 2nd place finishes in the MAC East to Marshall until 2003 and 2004.
Also, our stadium badly needed an upgrade, which we're getting now, and with other improvements made to our athletic facilities (new baseball stadium, new softball stadium, new ice arena, completely renovated football stadium), along with an improved recruiting budget, I think it's very plausible that Miami now will be very competitive in the MAC year in and year out.