(03-16-2024 05:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:50 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

MWC could also filled that void as their hoops have like 7 teams that are strong. Better than the Big Least. With SDSU in the finals last year? It would be a matter of time for a MWC team wins the men's hoops.

Not sure if the MW is better than the Big East this year - but the mere fact that it is in question says that the MW has been damn good, having a banner year.

Of course, you have to sustain it, can't be a one-year wonder. But I do tip my hat to the season the MW has had so far.

The tournament should be interesting, always is.

It is back to back year for the MWC. They had 7 teams last season that performed strongly.

Eh, they had 4 in the NCAA tournament.

BTW, the MW was 5-4 in the big dance last year. The Big East was 12-4.

(03-16-2024 09:08 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 11:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  I still don’t understand the Gonzaga obsession. If they’re not top-10, they’re totally off the radar. Oh, plus they’re 1,000,000 miles away.

I don’t think St. Louis makes sense either. Mainly because they’re not very good. Dayton is the only program that hits every metric and should be invited yesterday

Consensus on this thread is that the BE will get somewhere between $6-8 million for its basketball rights. Is there any world in which Dayton basketball is worth $6 million?

They're certainly not good enough on the court for that kind of money -- they're significantly worse than Seton Hall and Providence. They bring a new city, but it's not a new state or a particularly big market.

If I were in charge of Fox, I'd suggest an out-of-conference game for each BE team in January and February to drum up some inventory. With the 11 member conference, every team has a Wednesday and a Saturday 'bye" during conference play. Fill those up with some OOC games and you can increase your inventory without ponying up an extra $6 million.

Markets don’t matter unless there is a conference network, which there isn’t. They certainly are good enough on the court considering they have a .579 winning percentage vs Xavier, .507 vs DePaul and .636 vs Creighton.

* .700 vs Seton Hall and .600 vs St. John’s

Plus they pack their arena every game. I’ve actually been there.

(03-16-2024 09:56 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 09:08 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  Consensus on this thread is that the BE will get somewhere between $6-8 million for its basketball rights. Is there any world in which Dayton basketball is worth $6 million?

I'm not predicting expansion, and I don't particularly want it, but Dayton or any other A-10 program could conceivably be worth $6 million if adding them generates enough volume to spin off that third package to whichever bidder.

Also, we appear to be moving away from market expansion and focusing on brand expansion (at least in the P4). Dayton has been frequently participating in postseason tournaments (NCAA and NIT) since 1998 and has greater history than that. They fit the Big East profile. In addition, adding Dayton could add 22 more conference games (assuming they desire to keep double round robin scheduling), which might be enough to justify the 3rd package.

The other 11 team would lose 2 non-conference games each (most likely cupcakes) to make the quantity net 0, but then you add up to 9 non-conference Dayton games so I think the quality of games increases in addition to the quantity since you're replacing 22 cupcake games with 22 conference games + up to 9 Dayton non-conf.
5.5 x 20 = 110 conference games
6 x 22 = 132 conference games

If the 3rd package is NBC, you could see the B1G and BE maintain a conference challenge or even enter a scheduling agreement where the B1G and BE play up to 36 games against each other, maybe throughout the season, (BE get 3 games for all 12 teams, B1G get 2 games each) that gives the FOX, CBS, and NBC exclusive games. Of course, this kind of scheduling could also justify adding Gonzaga instead of Dayton, where a team or 2 travels to Gonzaga for an away game and then plays a west coast B1G team or even a MWC team as a 2 game road trip.

(03-16-2024 12:26 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 12:22 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 12:06 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Latest form 990 shows $48.7M in TV revenue for the 11 Big East schools, or $4.43M each.

Latest Big 12 contract is $31M. Assuming 25% for basketball that's $7.75M. So I expect the Big East will be looking for $7-8M per school.

For 2023-24, 200 Big East men's and women's games aired on the FOX family of networks with 23 matchups on FOX on the men's side and a record five women's games from the conference on the network. The Big Ten had 12 men's games air on FOX while five women's basketball matchups will air there as well. The Mountain West Conference featured 34 telecasts while the Pac-12 had 25 games on the family of networks.

As far as I can tell 1) those Pac 12 games have been replaced with Big 12 games, and 2) the Big 10 and MWC games will stay the same or similar. So FOX should have plenty of space for the Big East.

There’s actually even more room - the Big 12 splits its football games between ESPN and Fox, but basketball is completely with ESPN. So, all of the Pac-12 time slots on Fox need to replaced with their current basketball partners of the Big Ten, Big East and MWC.

That is changing with the new TV deal for the Big 12. Fox getting some Big 12 hoops in there.

Yeah I thought ESPN had the heavier FB deal and Fox the heavier BB in next TV.

I'll be the one that puts out there the Big East may want to spread this out across numerous broadcast partners so that they can avoid expansion? That this move gives the Big East a better opportunity to have some of its more marquee content out of Fox and that partner's "growing pains" as it houses Big Ten and Big XII content alongside the Big East. CBS getting a Saturday or Sunday game is otherwise harmless. Giving ESPN something for the revival of "Big Monday" is also innocuous.

This just helps the Big East putting its best games out of Fox's likely "stew." I doubt the pressures are there for them to necessarily expand.

I've highlighted it for several years, but with the right additions, expansion adds to the BET (and the continued sellout sessions). Adding a team adds another whole block of tickets and television windows for the BET. Every single session continues to sellout and get over 19k. In this era of viewership and content, the Big East actually owns a unique market asset in terms of in-person attendance. As more fans seek to enjoy games from comfort of own home, the league continues to have many programs average over 10k per home game.

If the Big East were to add only Dayton (and their regular 13k home attendance and great traveling attendance), not only would the league possibly have the best average home attendance as a conference in the country (they already average over 9k) but they'd also give a bump to many other BE programs home attendance thanks to their fan base.

At the end of the day, anything that adds $$$ to the Big East should be considered. The negatives in proximity of Dayton to Xavier is, respectively, foolish if the league is leaving money on the table.

The Big East should 100% add Dayton. I bet they’d join at a very reduced rate to get out of the sinking A-10 ship. Dayton would be a natural fit in the Big East and make geographic sense. Win win. Other than Dayton, I don’t think there are other attractive candidates.

In the end, I predict an AAV of $6.6m for the Big East.

(03-17-2024 09:09 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I've highlighted it for several years, but with the right additions, expansion adds to the BET (and the continued sellout sessions). Adding a team adds another whole block of tickets and television windows for the BET. Every single session continues to sellout and get over 19k. In this era of viewership and content, the Big East actually owns a unique market asset in terms of in-person attendance. As more fans seek to enjoy games from comfort of own home, the league continues to have many programs average over 10k per home game.

If the Big East were to add only Dayton (and their regular 13k home attendance and great traveling attendance), not only would the league possibly have the best average home attendance as a conference in the country (they already average over 9k) but they'd also give a bump to many other BE programs home attendance thanks to their fan base.

At the end of the day, anything that adds $$$ to the Big East should be considered. The negatives in proximity of Dayton to Xavier is, respectively, foolish if the league is leaving money on the table.

The positives vastly outweigh the negatives. The UD-XU game was must see TV in the A10 days.

FWIW, I think the Big East should expand. It just wouldn't surprise me if negotiating with three network partners isn't partly motivated by *not* wanting to do that. As in, what can be done to keep what the Big East used to have across Fox/FS1/FS2 where so many games could easily be accessed. Also, expanding the networking partners so that the women's content could be a bit more visible, too.

(03-16-2024 10:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 05:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:50 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

MWC could also filled that void as their hoops have like 7 teams that are strong. Better than the Big Least. With SDSU in the finals last year? It would be a matter of time for a MWC team wins the men's hoops.

Not sure if the MW is better than the Big East this year - but the mere fact that it is in question says that the MW has been damn good, having a banner year.

Of course, you have to sustain it, can't be a one-year wonder. But I do tip my hat to the season the MW has had so far.

The tournament should be interesting, always is.

It is back to back year for the MWC. They had 7 teams last season that performed strongly.

Eh, they had 4 in the NCAA tournament.

BTW, the MW was 5-4 in the big dance last year. The Big East was 12-4.

4, 7, what's the difference? They're only numbers. Math is hard, you know.

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

There's nothing honorary about the BE in basketball, they're generally a top 3 Conference, though they seem a bit top heavy this year.

(03-17-2024 09:09 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I've highlighted it for several years, but with the right additions, expansion adds to the BET (and the continued sellout sessions). Adding a team adds another whole block of tickets and television windows for the BET. Every single session continues to sellout and get over 19k. In this era of viewership and content, the Big East actually owns a unique market asset in terms of in-person attendance. As more fans seek to enjoy games from comfort of own home, the league continues to have many programs average over 10k per home game.

If the Big East were to add only Dayton (and their regular 13k home attendance and great traveling attendance), not only would the league possibly have the best average home attendance as a conference in the country (they already average over 9k) but they'd also give a bump to many other BE programs home attendance thanks to their fan base.

At the end of the day, anything that adds $$$ to the Big East should be considered. The negatives in proximity of Dayton to Xavier is, respectively, foolish if the league is leaving money on the table.

I have a lot of clients from my job in Dayton and they all say the same thing, they can’t get in the Big East because of Xavier.

But I agree with you. If Dayton adds money to the conference and Villanova, UConn, Georgetown, etc. are all on board adding them are they really going to let Xavier being upset about it stand in their way? I highly doubt it.

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

Please, Quo. Keep going. Don't let anyone devalue your correct opinion.

(03-15-2024 11:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  I still don’t understand the Gonzaga obsession. If they’re not top-10, they’re totally off the radar. Oh, plus they’re 1,000,000 miles away.

I don’t think St. Louis makes sense either. Mainly because they’re not very good. Dayton is the only program that hits every metric and should be invited yesterday

Yeah, Gonzaga could be Wichita State very quickly.

I think people group StL in there because it's Catholic and bridges the gap to Creighton.

(03-16-2024 07:50 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

MWC could also filled that void as their hoops have like 7 teams that are strong. Better than the Big Least. With SDSU in the finals last year? It would be a matter of time for a MWC team wins the men's hoops.

You definitely have an odd analytical approach. I thought you were getting better but seriously are you okay?

The New Big LEast has won 3 titles since it's inception. The MWC has had 1 Championship finalist who was blown out by the Big LEast.

This year's MWC confernces title winner was #6. That's a terrible look, meaning the top wasn't good at all.

(03-16-2024 07:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:50 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

MWC could also filled that void as their hoops have like 7 teams that are strong. Better than the Big Least. With SDSU in the finals last year? It would be a matter of time for a MWC team wins the men's hoops.

Not sure if the MW is better than the Big East this year - but the mere fact that it is in question says that the MW has been damn good, having a banner year.

Of course, you have to sustain it, can't be a one-year wonder. But I do tip my hat to the season the MW has had so far.

The tournament should be interesting, always is.

Apparently all that matters is this year as long as it fits the narrative. No MWC team is beating UConn or Creighton.

(03-17-2024 11:05 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

There's nothing honorary about the BE in basketball, they're generally a top 3 Conference, though they seem a bit top heavy this year.

Top heavy indeed.

IMO the dirty secret of BE hoops this year is that it is probably our worst over the past 7-8 years. But the prominence of a couple teams near the top has masked that.

(03-17-2024 11:31 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 11:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  I still don’t understand the Gonzaga obsession. If they’re not top-10, they’re totally off the radar. Oh, plus they’re 1,000,000 miles away.

I don’t think St. Louis makes sense either. Mainly because they’re not very good. Dayton is the only program that hits every metric and should be invited yesterday

Yeah, Gonzaga could be Wichita State very quickly.

I think people group StL in there because it's Catholic and bridges the gap to Creighton.

This is one of the cases where "bridge the gap" actually means a bit of something ... where quite often it means nothing ... since for some of the Midwestern Big East schools, with travel partner scheduling they can drive to SLU, drive from there to Creighton (6hrs Google drive time), and then fly home, or the reverse.

But it's still extra cost, so unless SLU's brand equity rises, the game is not worth the candle.

If X is viewing Cincinnati + Dayton as "greater Cincinnati" and don't want to give a boost to a rival, I don't know if they aren't looking at the wrong side of things. UC's entry into the Big12 seems likely to boost their basketball recruiting, and one counter to that would be for X to increase the intensity of their support by bringing a "northern end of Greater Cinci vs Southern end of Greater Cinci" rivalry into the other Power basketball conference in the region.

(03-17-2024 11:41 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:50 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Damn, time flies. Seems like just yesterday when the current deal was signed. That was 11 years ago this week!

I recall a lot of cackling on the AAC board the first few years, with AAC fanboys saying the Big East would die on the vines due to pathetic FS1 ratings and terrible "exposure".

Instead, Big East hoops has thrived the past 11 years and is accorded all the respect of an honorary "P" conference, while AAC hoops and P6 dreams have gone down the drain, all while being televised wall to wall on the Mothership.

MWC could also filled that void as their hoops have like 7 teams that are strong. Better than the Big Least. With SDSU in the finals last year? It would be a matter of time for a MWC team wins the men's hoops.

Not sure if the MW is better than the Big East this year - but the mere fact that it is in question says that the MW has been damn good, having a banner year.

Of course, you have to sustain it, can't be a one-year wonder. But I do tip my hat to the season the MW has had so far.

The tournament should be interesting, always is.

Apparently all that matters is this year as long as it fits the narrative. No MWC team is beating UConn or Creighton.

Didn’t Creighton get blown out by 2 different Mountain West teams this year?

(03-16-2024 11:29 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 08:54 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  Great news for the Big East getting MSG thru 2032! Big East has by far the best tourney in college basketball for the fans - its always in the same place in a city that almost everyone loves to visit. Even if your team loses early, you are in NY so its easy to find something else to do.

Like get mugged on a subway or step on a syringe or jump over o puddle o piss. Maybe step in a pile of shite. Yeah, it’s great.

I heard the new top tourist destination from Europe is Greenville, NC. LOL. What a dump. What a fool.