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Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 10:58 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:05 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

And most of them are already being fairly compensated through scholarships room and board and COA.

"Fairly compensated" as decided by whom ?
03-12-2024 01:00 PM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 11:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A relevant non sequitur: I spoke with an investor at a major investment bank where I have to handle some of my Mom's holdings. We know and trust one another. I simply asked him one question. What's your take on the overall economy? His reply was, well in the last 10 years wages are up 200%, but costs are up between 600% to 800%. I smiled and said, "Well that is what I would call unsustainable." He said, "Absolutely unsustainable." Only he didn't smile.

Maybe at some point sobriety will set in, but the country has gotten so accustomed to "big spending" and high yield curves, and markets which only go up, that magical money thinking is omnipresent.

What Jim Phillips suggests, though he was using it for shock value, is actually quite realistic. And may actually be a tad optimistic. Austerity is about to become an unwelcomed arrival in the lexicon of 342 million people who live in the Magic Kingdom and I'm not just talking ESPN.

It's the little things that first reveal the cracks in any economy. When daily necessities of products which should be produced internally double in price within a short span of time and start to be in shorter supply the economy is beginning to crumble. Such things can be seen in the cost of eggs, the shrinking by an ounce of the quantity in a can of Bush's beans, larger boxes with less cereal in them, and in the number of imports needed to supply the demand of necessities.

We've been living like there's no tomorrow for almost 90 years and we've had a myriad of factors and some interesting manipulations to keep from experiencing too much market retrenchment. It's going to hurt.

What people have backwards here is that money is driving realignment. It appears that way because initially it was about growth of revenue and influence, but within regional families of schools.

The first realignment moves were to take in independents and the first refugees of a change in pay model, members of the SWC. Consolidation happens when the strongest ban together for survival and that motivation is fear. You see this occur when recognition of conditions makes the bastions of their own fiefdoms realize the untenable nature of their current relationship relative to their future needs.

I believe we are reaching a point where if we desire the luxury of the United States Olympic team to continue to exist as a projection of the nation's image, that the Olympic sports of our universities may need to be subsidized by corporate sponsors and the government. And if Universities want to use sports as their front porch and back porch to entice enrollment, they will likely only keep the most popular ones, and the most profitable ones now that athletes likely will be paid. And in that world six sports only may not just be likely, but necessary.

I don't know how religious any of you are or aren't but there is practical wisdom in ancient scriptures. The one I have in mind is from the Bible's New Testament when the Disciples ask Jesus how they will know when the things he has said will come to pass. He tells them to look to the seasons. It is seemingly an oblique and cryptic reference to most people. In reality it is sound, practical, and easily discernable advice. It means if you pay attention to how the small and normal things around you are happening you will know when things are out of balance and that undesired consequences will follow. Well that applies to basic necessities, their costs, their availability, when they are available, how the weather or other natural events may have impacted them, or perhaps even alterations in the climate, or changes in the amount of rainfall, or over consumption. If you are to have time to adjust to major shifts you must notice when they first start to occur. Agriculturally speaking when we had to start intentionally producing bees to keep crop pollination up it was a big red flag for me. The decline in the availability of certain fertilizers was another. The draining of aquifers it took millions of years for nature to create, yet another.

Those are the deep undersea tremors that lead to a tsunami. People remember and fear the wave, they forget the small tectonic settlings that lead to the rupture of a fault.

We all go to the grocery store. You all should notice the changes in the small things. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, and UCLA did. They noticed the tremors and took action. The fault has ruptured. A massive wave of change is coming, and you've even had leaders in the industry tell you this, and you still concoct ways through mental gymnastics to keep it the same. Now Phillips is giving you a magnitude indicator. You had better listen. What happens to large well-funded institutions will be minor compared to what's coming for smaller family units.

This isn't just a football or sports issue. It's a way of life issue. What are sports but the physical and visual recognition of the seasons.

US Wage Growth
2012 avg wage: $42k
2022 avg wage: $61k
61/42 = 1.45 - a 45% increase

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html

US inflation
2012 CPI: 229.6
2022 CPI: 292.7
292.7/229.6 = 1.27 - a 27% increase in the Consumer Price index

https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/...ndex-1913-

SSA data cuts off at 2022. CPI includes 2023, but it was only 4.1% that year, so not a huge impact even if 2023 SSA data were to indicate less than 4.1% growth for the year and we were to revisit this topic down the road.

So, um, yeah, a 45% increase in wages and a 27% increase in prices. It's one thing to anecdotally look at the price of eggs or whatever and say "this one thing has increased by 600%", it's another to say that EVERYTHING has increased in price by that much.

You need to fire that guy! 04-rock04-rock
03-12-2024 01:01 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:58 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:05 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

And most of them are already being fairly compensated through scholarships room and board and COA.

"Fairly compensated" as decided by whom ?

Well, as I mentioned earlier. The FMV of full cost of attendance including scholarship, room and board and COA stipend is pretty close to G League and XFL or CFL salaries and a good bit more than minor league baseball. They're welcome to try their luck there. But of course there needs to be collective bargaining. At some point though, schools in the G5 and midmajor level are going to say, that's what we have to offer with the potential for some NIL money as well. Do you think we won't be able to field a team? Is there any legal recourse if we allow them to collectively bargain and can show they're being compensated above minimum wage?
03-12-2024 01:09 PM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 12:04 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:05 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

They always have - athletics are supposed to be part of the college experience.

Nothing wrong with non-revenue sports - if anything, the revenue sports are what is warping everything.

When I was in school, A&M had a really good (Club) girls soccer team. Today, our girl's soccer is an NCAA rather than club team. Same Coach, team is still pretty good, too. We won't see a whole bunch of schools just completely drop every sport, but we will see a huge number "drop down" from NCAA to Club status in order to avoid having to hire people who aren't and never were employees. And if schools like A&M are dropping pretty decent programs like our girl's soccer, then so is almost everyone else. We might even have the same caliber of players 10 years from now as we do today, just they'll be back to playing club soccer instead of NCAA soccer and they won't be getting huge subsidies from the Middle Linebacker and the next Johnny Football like they are now.

It's probably not the worst thing in the world for big schools to drop from 22 to 8 NCAA sports, but a whole bunch of us here will be really upset about it, as will anybody who cares about college athletics in general rather than just "P4 Football". I'm in both boats, I love our football team, I love the energy and camaraderie that it brings to the school, but I also care a lot about all those other programs. As long as the other programs have been mandated by Title IX and we could afford them, then I was happy to have them. If/when we ever get to the point where we have to start cutting though, well...Club soccer is ok, I guess.
03-12-2024 01:10 PM
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b2b Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 11:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A relevant non sequitur: I spoke with an investor at a major investment bank where I have to handle some of my Mom's holdings. We know and trust one another. I simply asked him one question. What's your take on the overall economy? His reply was, well in the last 10 years wages are up 200%, but costs are up between 600% to 800%. I smiled and said, "Well that is what I would call unsustainable." He said, "Absolutely unsustainable." Only he didn't smile.

Maybe at some point sobriety will set in, but the country has gotten so accustomed to "big spending" and high yield curves, and markets which only go up, that magical money thinking is omnipresent.

What Jim Phillips suggests, though he was using it for shock value, is actually quite realistic. And may actually be a tad optimistic. Austerity is about to become an unwelcomed arrival in the lexicon of 342 million people who live in the Magic Kingdom and I'm not just talking ESPN.

It's the little things that first reveal the cracks in any economy. When daily necessities of products which should be produced internally double in price within a short span of time and start to be in shorter supply the economy is beginning to crumble. Such things can be seen in the cost of eggs, the shrinking by an ounce of the quantity in a can of Bush's beans, larger boxes with less cereal in them, and in the number of imports needed to supply the demand of necessities.

We've been living like there's no tomorrow for almost 90 years and we've had a myriad of factors and some interesting manipulations to keep from experiencing too much market retrenchment. It's going to hurt.

What people have backwards here is that money is driving realignment. It appears that way because initially it was about growth of revenue and influence, but within regional families of schools.

The first realignment moves were to take in independents and the first refugees of a change in pay model, members of the SWC. Consolidation happens when the strongest ban together for survival and that motivation is fear. You see this occur when recognition of conditions makes the bastions of their own fiefdoms realize the untenable nature of their current relationship relative to their future needs.

I believe we are reaching a point where if we desire the luxury of the United States Olympic team to continue to exist as a projection of the nation's image, that the Olympic sports of our universities may need to be subsidized by corporate sponsors and the government. And if Universities want to use sports as their front porch and back porch to entice enrollment, they will likely only keep the most popular ones, and the most profitable ones now that athletes likely will be paid. And in that world six sports only may not just be likely, but necessary.

I don't know how religious any of you are or aren't but there is practical wisdom in ancient scriptures. The one I have in mind is from the Bible's New Testament when the Disciples ask Jesus how they will know when the things he has said will come to pass. He tells them to look to the seasons. It is seemingly an oblique and cryptic reference to most people. In reality it is sound, practical, and easily discernable advice. It means if you pay attention to how the small and normal things around you are happening you will know when things are out of balance and that undesired consequences will follow. Well that applies to basic necessities, their costs, their availability, when they are available, how the weather or other natural events may have impacted them, or perhaps even alterations in the climate, or changes in the amount of rainfall, or over consumption. If you are to have time to adjust to major shifts you must notice when they first start to occur. Agriculturally speaking when we had to start intentionally producing bees to keep crop pollination up it was a big red flag for me. The decline in the availability of certain fertilizers was another. The draining of aquifers it took millions of years for nature to create, yet another.

Those are the deep undersea tremors that lead to a tsunami. People remember and fear the wave, they forget the small tectonic settlings that lead to the rupture of a fault.

We all go to the grocery store. You all should notice the changes in the small things. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, and UCLA did. They noticed the tremors and took action. The fault has ruptured. A massive wave of change is coming, and you've even had leaders in the industry tell you this, and you still concoct ways through mental gymnastics to keep it the same. Now Phillips is giving you a magnitude indicator. You had better listen. What happens to large well-funded institutions will be minor compared to what's coming for smaller family units.

This isn't just a football or sports issue. It's a way of life issue. What are sports but the physical and visual recognition of the seasons.

Brilliant post. I hope more will take it seriously.
03-12-2024 01:20 PM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 12:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:03 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 11:48 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 11:36 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  And therein lies a key question going forward:

Should funds generated by revenue-producing sports programs continue to be siphoned off to fund non-revenue sports programs?

Should the QB receive less employee compensation so that the swimmer at his school can be paid, too?

07-coffee3

He's full of it. Even after carrying the other sports AL has an $18M annual surplus, paying coaches 71M/year and 'ol Gregg is pulling in 1.5-2M/year himself.

LOL.

The future that the AD at Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, North Carolina, etc...is seeing tells them $18M isn't cutting it. How far will 18M get you once you're paying athletes? I believe that's why people are speaking out now, because cuts are coming quickly.

To be fair, I do think the Big 10 and SEC should do something about bringing in other schools as full members. Big 10 would love to have Johns Hopkins as full member along with Vanderbilt, Florida, Missouri, etc. If the Big 10 get all the high Rs and ones that don't have the AAU yet, and the SEC expands to take the rest including the best programs from the G5? Both conferences would actually be in every tv markets to be on tv. Idaho there is one program in FBS.

Boise State to the SEC! You heard it here first, folks!!!

No, they're skipping the SEC and going directly to the NFC East.
03-12-2024 01:30 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:01 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 11:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A relevant non sequitur: I spoke with an investor at a major investment bank where I have to handle some of my Mom's holdings. We know and trust one another. I simply asked him one question. What's your take on the overall economy? His reply was, well in the last 10 years wages are up 200%, but costs are up between 600% to 800%. I smiled and said, "Well that is what I would call unsustainable." He said, "Absolutely unsustainable." Only he didn't smile.

Maybe at some point sobriety will set in, but the country has gotten so accustomed to "big spending" and high yield curves, and markets which only go up, that magical money thinking is omnipresent.

What Jim Phillips suggests, though he was using it for shock value, is actually quite realistic. And may actually be a tad optimistic. Austerity is about to become an unwelcomed arrival in the lexicon of 342 million people who live in the Magic Kingdom and I'm not just talking ESPN.

It's the little things that first reveal the cracks in any economy. When daily necessities of products which should be produced internally double in price within a short span of time and start to be in shorter supply the economy is beginning to crumble. Such things can be seen in the cost of eggs, the shrinking by an ounce of the quantity in a can of Bush's beans, larger boxes with less cereal in them, and in the number of imports needed to supply the demand of necessities.

We've been living like there's no tomorrow for almost 90 years and we've had a myriad of factors and some interesting manipulations to keep from experiencing too much market retrenchment. It's going to hurt.

What people have backwards here is that money is driving realignment. It appears that way because initially it was about growth of revenue and influence, but within regional families of schools.

The first realignment moves were to take in independents and the first refugees of a change in pay model, members of the SWC. Consolidation happens when the strongest ban together for survival and that motivation is fear. You see this occur when recognition of conditions makes the bastions of their own fiefdoms realize the untenable nature of their current relationship relative to their future needs.

I believe we are reaching a point where if we desire the luxury of the United States Olympic team to continue to exist as a projection of the nation's image, that the Olympic sports of our universities may need to be subsidized by corporate sponsors and the government. And if Universities want to use sports as their front porch and back porch to entice enrollment, they will likely only keep the most popular ones, and the most profitable ones now that athletes likely will be paid. And in that world six sports only may not just be likely, but necessary.

I don't know how religious any of you are or aren't but there is practical wisdom in ancient scriptures. The one I have in mind is from the Bible's New Testament when the Disciples ask Jesus how they will know when the things he has said will come to pass. He tells them to look to the seasons. It is seemingly an oblique and cryptic reference to most people. In reality it is sound, practical, and easily discernable advice. It means if you pay attention to how the small and normal things around you are happening you will know when things are out of balance and that undesired consequences will follow. Well that applies to basic necessities, their costs, their availability, when they are available, how the weather or other natural events may have impacted them, or perhaps even alterations in the climate, or changes in the amount of rainfall, or over consumption. If you are to have time to adjust to major shifts you must notice when they first start to occur. Agriculturally speaking when we had to start intentionally producing bees to keep crop pollination up it was a big red flag for me. The decline in the availability of certain fertilizers was another. The draining of aquifers it took millions of years for nature to create, yet another.

Those are the deep undersea tremors that lead to a tsunami. People remember and fear the wave, they forget the small tectonic settlings that lead to the rupture of a fault.

We all go to the grocery store. You all should notice the changes in the small things. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, and UCLA did. They noticed the tremors and took action. The fault has ruptured. A massive wave of change is coming, and you've even had leaders in the industry tell you this, and you still concoct ways through mental gymnastics to keep it the same. Now Phillips is giving you a magnitude indicator. You had better listen. What happens to large well-funded institutions will be minor compared to what's coming for smaller family units.

This isn't just a football or sports issue. It's a way of life issue. What are sports but the physical and visual recognition of the seasons.

US Wage Growth
2012 avg wage: $42k
2022 avg wage: $61k
61/42 = 1.45 - a 45% increase

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html

US inflation
2012 CPI: 229.6
2022 CPI: 292.7
292.7/229.6 = 1.27 - a 27% increase in the Consumer Price index

https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/...ndex-1913-

SSA data cuts off at 2022. CPI includes 2023, but it was only 4.1% that year, so not a huge impact even if 2023 SSA data were to indicate less than 4.1% growth for the year and we were to revisit this topic down the road.

So, um, yeah, a 45% increase in wages and a 27% increase in prices. It's one thing to anecdotally look at the price of eggs or whatever and say "this one thing has increased by 600%", it's another to say that EVERYTHING has increased in price by that much.

You need to fire that guy! 04-rock04-rock

No, I don't. He was making an exaggerated point, but the ratio is still about right. And remember, food and fuel are conveniently left out of price indices when calculating inflation.
03-12-2024 01:30 PM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:46 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 11:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:05 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

Well the Big 10 and ACC would cut sports. SEC and Big 12 already have pretty lean departments. The rest of Division I will have issues. Paying 200 athletes federal minimum wage adds about a half million to the budget not counting benefits and administrative costs. So that will add up to close to a million and it could be 2 million in states with higher minimum wages. 80 of the 232 public schools listed by USA Today spend less than $20 million and are usually subsidizing about 80% of that. So that would be a significant increase.

200 athletes
$12 an hour
$40 hrs a week
52 weeks a year

200 x 12 x 40 x 52 = $5m a year
Double that for medical/retirement/etc. And what do they do about paid time off?

so $10m a year as the baseline starting point, and it's a lot more if you add any other men's sports.

Minimum wage varies from $7.25 up to $17, depending on the State. Yet another reason that forcing schools to reclassify student athletes is a hammer when what they really need is a scalpel.

I'm assuming they get paid only during the season, so about 15 weeks. They are limited to 20 hours per week by NCAA rules (200 X 15 X 20 X $7.25 =435,000). But they do have workout plans in the offseason, so what I was calculating was the minimum possible number. The minimum could be much bigger.

I don't think that your numbers even add up to the "full cost of tuition" scholarship awards that kids are already getting. Would be pretty funny if the P4 just kind of collectively shrug our shoulders, revert back to "tuition only, you have to pay for your own room and board" scholarships, and we all end up paying LESS instead of more to our scholarship athletes. At least we wouldn't have to drop a bunch of sports that way.
03-12-2024 01:39 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:39 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:46 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 11:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

Well the Big 10 and ACC would cut sports. SEC and Big 12 already have pretty lean departments. The rest of Division I will have issues. Paying 200 athletes federal minimum wage adds about a half million to the budget not counting benefits and administrative costs. So that will add up to close to a million and it could be 2 million in states with higher minimum wages. 80 of the 232 public schools listed by USA Today spend less than $20 million and are usually subsidizing about 80% of that. So that would be a significant increase.

200 athletes
$12 an hour
$40 hrs a week
52 weeks a year

200 x 12 x 40 x 52 = $5m a year
Double that for medical/retirement/etc. And what do they do about paid time off?

so $10m a year as the baseline starting point, and it's a lot more if you add any other men's sports.

Minimum wage varies from $7.25 up to $17, depending on the State. Yet another reason that forcing schools to reclassify student athletes is a hammer when what they really need is a scalpel.

I'm assuming they get paid only during the season, so about 15 weeks. They are limited to 20 hours per week by NCAA rules (200 X 15 X 20 X $7.25 =435,000). But they do have workout plans in the offseason, so what I was calculating was the minimum possible number. The minimum could be much bigger.

I don't think that your numbers even add up to the "full cost of tuition" scholarship awards that kids are already getting. Would be pretty funny if the P4 just kind of collectively shrug our shoulders, revert back to "tuition only, you have to pay for your own room and board" scholarships, and we all end up paying LESS instead of more to our scholarship athletes. At least we wouldn't have to drop a bunch of sports that way.

I think Phillips is factoring in the cost of paying the football and basketball stars. And the cost of paying equivalent sums to female athletes because Title IX.
03-12-2024 01:41 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:39 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 12:46 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 11:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

Well the Big 10 and ACC would cut sports. SEC and Big 12 already have pretty lean departments. The rest of Division I will have issues. Paying 200 athletes federal minimum wage adds about a half million to the budget not counting benefits and administrative costs. So that will add up to close to a million and it could be 2 million in states with higher minimum wages. 80 of the 232 public schools listed by USA Today spend less than $20 million and are usually subsidizing about 80% of that. So that would be a significant increase.

200 athletes
$12 an hour
$40 hrs a week
52 weeks a year

200 x 12 x 40 x 52 = $5m a year
Double that for medical/retirement/etc. And what do they do about paid time off?

so $10m a year as the baseline starting point, and it's a lot more if you add any other men's sports.

Minimum wage varies from $7.25 up to $17, depending on the State. Yet another reason that forcing schools to reclassify student athletes is a hammer when what they really need is a scalpel.

I'm assuming they get paid only during the season, so about 15 weeks. They are limited to 20 hours per week by NCAA rules (200 X 15 X 20 X $7.25 =435,000). But they do have workout plans in the offseason, so what I was calculating was the minimum possible number. The minimum could be much bigger.

I don't think that your numbers even add up to the "full cost of tuition" scholarship awards that kids are already getting. Would be pretty funny if the P4 just kind of collectively shrug our shoulders, revert back to "tuition only, you have to pay for your own room and board" scholarships, and we all end up paying LESS instead of more to our scholarship athletes. At least we wouldn't have to drop a bunch of sports that way.

Yep, can't wait for that first player's strike.
03-12-2024 01:49 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:58 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:05 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

And most of them are already being fairly compensated through scholarships room and board and COA.

"Fairly compensated" as decided by whom ?
The vast majority are compensated at a far higher rate than they could get anywhere else. That applies to pretty much anyone but certain Division I men's football and basketball players. And it applies to the vast majority of them outside the P6.
03-12-2024 01:50 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ... No, I don't. He was making an exaggerated point, but the ratio is still about right. And remember, food and fuel are conveniently left out of price indices when calculating inflation.

2022 Q1 GDP deflator (2017 base), 115.135
2012 Q1 GDP deflator (2017 base), 92.525

Cumulative Nominal GDP inflation, 24.4%.

That's not a market basket measure, that includes all newly produced goods and services, for all sectors of the economy.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2024 01:53 PM by BruceMcF.)
03-12-2024 01:52 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
I have a nephew working on his PhD at Johns Hopkins. I seriously doubt he chose to go there because of an absurd, fantasy vision the university is heading to the BIG.

It has been confirmed the BIG and the SEC are meeting and collaborating about a host of issues, inclusive of governing factors. In my opinion, that is a good thing. I don't believe it is all about screwing over all the conferences and schools below their lofty status. P2 alone, hasn't fully defined how they vision themselves in the future as it relates to all others.

Here's something I have wished the P2 conferences would answer: what are the goals of each in terms of the ultimate number of schools? Of course they are not going to say at this time. Frankly, they may not know, and they want to keep the flexibility for growth in numbers as new circumstances and opportunities arise. The downside of that adds to the anxiety of M2 and G5 conferences that can certainly face future extractions.

We see the ACC looking at the perplexities. Will the ACC lose one (FSU)? Two? Four (spoken about frequently)? Six (four for the SEC; two for the BIG)? Or perhaps 8 or more (with the B12 getting in on the act)? That's awfully unsettling as the ACC assesses their own future. That under fire GoR won't assure the future in near totality. If it survives for most members, there is an expiration date.

If ESPN and FOX are the deciders of who goes where, who is left out, who gets anointed with a superior athletics classification and grand revenue, then they need to do some explaining beyond the BIG's and SEC's "we're happy with our content" statements, and noting they have "no immediate plans to expand". That may be true until it isn't. Both conferences know how to keep expansion additions under wrap until a deal is set.

For a host of reasons, the BIG, the SEC, ESPN, and Fox, will not be publicly candid in revealing plans. Fear of lawsuits, alerting the opposition, giving a heads-up to posturing, and facing enhanced criticisms, are matters to diminish, if not avoid. And certainly the P2 want the flexibility to adjust goals and plans as financial and landscape conditions unexpectedly change.

What's immediately on the plate is FSU's quest to leave the ACC. Looking beyond that is deeper speculation. Obviously, that is what all are enjoying in the social media and sports advocacy domains.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2024 02:23 PM by OdinFrigg.)
03-12-2024 02:13 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
Let's assume for a moment he's right. Is it a real loss for anyone other than the major Olympic teams? I'd be fine if GT and the ACC only fielded football, men's basketball, baseball, golf, women's volleyball, and men's/women's tennis. I wouldn't miss a thing.
03-12-2024 02:31 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 02:31 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Let's assume for a moment he's right. Is it a real loss for anyone other than the major Olympic teams? I'd be fine if GT and the ACC only fielded football, men's basketball, baseball, golf, women's volleyball, and men's/women's tennis. I wouldn't miss a thing.

Cut mens tennis, golf and maybe baseball from that list
03-12-2024 02:32 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:07 AM)Glenn360 Wrote:  But people said Title IX wouldn't apply if they were employees?

IAN an employment lawyer, but my understanding is that T9 applies in the workplace.
Would having a compliant workforce as a whole (athletes and non-athletes) be sufficient, or does there need to be balance between athlete employees?
03-12-2024 02:33 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:52 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 01:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ... No, I don't. He was making an exaggerated point, but the ratio is still about right. And remember, food and fuel are conveniently left out of price indices when calculating inflation.

2022 Q1 GDP deflator (2017 base), 115.135
2012 Q1 GDP deflator (2017 base), 92.525

Cumulative Nominal GDP inflation, 24.4%.

That's not a market basket measure, that includes all newly produced goods and services, for all sectors of the economy.

Do you do the grocery shopping in your household? That is the single product line that impacts most American homes, along with energy costs. Then look at the fast-food inflation from pre COVID to post COVID. It's all far greater than 24.4%. One has to dig into these tabulations to find the variances. But in the meantime, at the checkout lane of your local chain grocery, butter that was 3 bucks in 2018 is over 5 bucks now. A loaf of non-brand specific bread which was a buck in 2018 is over 2.50 now and may be higher depending upon the store. Fish and beef are up though not quite double, chicken is up as well, and pork is oddly not. The average checkout price is up over 30%. Most wages aren't keeping up for people on fixed income. My wife and I are on fixed income, but we both have pensions, no debt, and are comfortable. Many I know aren't. Some of the working poor I knew from past work experience are really hurting. Minimum wage doesn't keep pace.

Disintegration always starts at the bottom and works up. It's like losing plankton in the Oceans' food chain. Lose the plankton and everything else is impacted. Then add to those most hurt at the lower rungs the mass influx across the borders and it has only a downward pressure upon their abilities to work more hours and two jobs, which is what most chose to do in response to the affordable care plan and to inflation.

I did non-profit work before retiring. Wall Street numbers, and the Fed's way of measuring things aren't reflective of the street reality. They weren't in the 60's and they aren't even in the same ballpark now. For those of us who live well it seems that nothing is wrong. Get out and work with the poor and your world view would change, and your sacrosanct numbers would be exposed for what they are, data manipulations designed to placate investors and defray blame for unsolvable problems by largely ignoring them.

I get tickled when pick a denomination church members go to Mexico, Central America, Haiti, or South America, spend two weeks with the truly impoverished and come back to the states feeling like we don't have those problems. While ours aren't as severe the poverty is here and hurting households where there are industrious parents trying to care for their children. It's not seen on sitcoms, gameshows or the most unrealistic programming ever, "reality programs." You might get a whiff of it on a "real crime" show but then those you witness are guilty of something so easily dismissed.

When you find a single parent home where a mom incorporates her oldest child to care for the others while she works sometimes 2 full time jobs or a full time and 2 part time jobs to make ends meet, you'll change your confidence in statistics and price indexes.

It's those small tremors in the seabed of humanity that eventually rupture a fault and cause that wave. And since the super wealthy hide in gated communities with personal guards, it is way past time for the middle class to pay attention. These people don't care if the core inflation rate for nonperishables is 24.4%. They care about those 35% to 50% increases in the cost of fuel and the doubling of food staples. And the numbers of those marginalized are only increasing.

Now, let's bring this back to College Athletics for an application. If the professionalization of college sports prices a number of smaller schools out of the offering of sports, and it will, what does that do to the hopes for an education or a way out of those marginalized by economic conditions? Corporate level thinking applied to all situations is like flying over the oceans in jets while pinging sonar. If you had an echo return you wouldn't be able to identify the target. The method is too broad for the application. These numbers are fine for those on Wall Street who interpret them for investors. They aren't fine for the poor. And helping the strongest athletic programs circle the wagons for survival is just that, about survival, and not about sports. And if you can reach the same markets with fewer schools that is great for the networks (corporate America), but it is horrible for the upward mobility of the poor. Your measuring stick is too broad to detect what is under your nose. In poor neighborhoods that measuring stick is useless. It is intended as information for the wealthy to make determinations about investment, and not specific enough to measure the economic conditions for the poor. The numbers weren't designed to measure what happens below the middle class precisely because that demographic doesn't invest.

In America our mission field is on the other side of the tracks, or in the poor section of town, just as surely as it is in Brazil, Mexico, Haiti, or Columbia. It's just that our mission teams don't get to see a place they haven't seen before if they work 2 weeks across town, and if they had the guts to do so, they don't want to have to be accountable to those people 364 days a year. 14 days and a lot of distance and a whole different language away seems much safer. But isn't it wiser to deal with our problems here to make our own backyard safer? If sports offerings cease to exist or diminish significantly at lower rungs in our society due to economic hard times what will that do to the despair among the poor, and to the crime rate?

Like what's happening in our Sports world with the court rulings, we only howl when our ox is gored, and if the richest among us protect themselves, we have the illusion of safety. And instead of acknowledging the reality of the cause, we deny it, and pretend it is something else. 34 trillion in debt, and a lowering of the rating of the U.S. dollar to a B+ rating wasn't enough to get our attention. And it is quite possible that reducing college football to 48 to 72 relevant schools won't get it either. But the ill effects of not having sports offerings subsidized at lower levels will impact the quality of life for all of us if drug use and crime expand to fill that vacuum. I think the courts are right to pay athletes. I just think in looking only at that level of sports play and making that decision, they have not considered at all the collateral damage that will be wrought by not considering the impact of their decision upon the very community they believe themselves to be helping. This is why limits upon earnings and intentional pass down to lower tiers of sports have to be accounted for. And I'm not talking taxpayer subsidies for small town U to have sports facilities to rival larger schools. I'm talking about community level activities for the young in poor areas. And at universities affordable to them and accepting of students with growing edges academically. One size fits all rulings leave gaps that our adversaries and their philosophies can exploit. We claim to be an enlightened society, but to be one all aspects of it have to be considered.

It's the things happening around you every day, if we would only look, that tell us what's coming and help us with early detection to be able to avert catastrophe.


What could be done? Let the professionalization take place at the upper tier. Let the pass-downs be in terms of caps at levels below the upper tier with the cap being lower in each succeeding tier with the lower tiers remaining scholarship only. The existence of the other tiers provides options for athletes who desire to optimize their professional chances. Let those who use athletics to actually get an education do so and their acceptance of a scholarship track versus a paid track is their decision. It can't be legally one size fits all when motivations and missions vary so widely throughout various tiers. As long as athletes have choices which reflect their personal objectives do not impose the ruling on the upper tier upon all, but uphold the various choices afforded to them so they can personalize their life track accordingly.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2024 03:22 PM by JRsec.)
03-12-2024 02:41 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 01:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 01:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:58 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:05 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

And most of them are already being fairly compensated through scholarships room and board and COA.

"Fairly compensated" as decided by whom ?
The vast majority are compensated at a far higher rate than they could get anywhere else. That applies to pretty much anyone but certain Division I men's football and basketball players. And it applies to the vast majority of them outside the P6.

Although I agree with the bolded, that is not the relevant question that courts are deciding. There is currently no rational means for determining whether today’s student-athletes are receiving adequate compensation. Student-athletes don’t have sufficient agency in the current setup of the NCAA.

It seems almost inevitable that NCAA student-athletes will be deemed employees…as the courts are always seeking to protect minority rights. High revenue programs can afford the change. It’s not that hard for Stanford, BC and UNC to cut-back to 20 sponsored sports (they become more like the typical SEC or B12 program). The power conferences will probably all embrace the change.
03-12-2024 03:44 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 02:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 01:52 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 01:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ... No, I don't. He was making an exaggerated point, but the ratio is still about right. And remember, food and fuel are conveniently left out of price indices when calculating inflation.

2022 Q1 GDP deflator (2017 base), 115.135
2012 Q1 GDP deflator (2017 base), 92.525

Cumulative Nominal GDP inflation, 24.4%.

That's not a market basket measure, that includes all newly produced goods and services, for all sectors of the economy.

Do you do the grocery shopping in your household? That is the single product line that impacts most American homes, along with energy costs. Then look at the fast-food inflation from pre COVID to post COVID. It's all far greater than 24.4%. One has to dig into these tabulations to find the variances. But in the meantime, at the checkout lane of your local chain grocery, butter that was 3 bucks in 2018 is over 5 bucks now. A loaf of non-brand specific bread which was a buck in 2018 is over 2.50 now and may be higher depending upon the store. Fish and beef are up though not quite double, chicken is up as well, and pork is oddly not. The average checkout price is up over 30%. Most wages aren't keeping up for people on fixed income. My wife and I are on fixed income, but we both have pensions, no debt, and are comfortable. Many I know aren't. Some of the working poor I knew from past work experience are really hurting. Minimum wage doesn't keep pace.

Disintegration always starts at the bottom and works up. It's like losing plankton in the Oceans' food chain. Lose the plankton and everything else is impacted. Then add to those most hurt at the lower rungs the mass influx across the borders and it has only a downward pressure upon their abilities to work more hours and two jobs, which is what most chose to do in response to the affordable care plan and to inflation.

I did non-profit work before retiring. Wall Street numbers, and the Fed's way of measuring things aren't reflective of the street reality. They weren't in the 60's and they aren't even in the same ballpark now. For those of us who live well it seems that nothing is wrong. Get out and work with the poor and your world view would change, and your sacrosanct numbers would be exposed for what they are, data manipulations designed to placate investors and defray blame for unsolvable problems by largely ignoring them.

I get tickled when pick a denomination church members go to Mexico, Central America, Haiti, or South America, spend two weeks with the truly impoverished and come back to the states feeling like we don't have those problems. While ours aren't as severe the poverty is here and hurting households where there are industrious parents trying to care for their children. It's not seen on sitcoms, gameshows or the most unrealistic programming ever, "reality programs." You might get a whiff of it on a "real crime" show but then those you witness are guilty of something so easily dismissed.

When you find a single parent home where a mom incorporates her oldest child to care for the others while she works sometimes 2 full time jobs or a full time and 2 part time jobs to make ends meet, you'll change your confidence in statistics and price indexes.

It's those small tremors in the seabed of humanity that eventually rupture a fault and cause that wave. And since the super wealthy hide in gated communities with personal guards, it is way past time for the middle class to pay attention. These people don't care if the core inflation rate for nonperishables is 24.4%. They care about those 35% to 50% increases in the cost of fuel and the doubling of food staples. And the numbers of those marginalized are only increasing.

Now, let's bring this back to College Athletics for an application. If the professionalization of college sports prices a number of smaller schools out of the offering of sports, and it will, what does that do to the hopes for an education or a way out of those marginalized by economic conditions? Corporate level thinking applied to all situations is like flying over the oceans in jets while pinging sonar. If you had an echo return you wouldn't be able to identify the target. The method is too broad for the application. These numbers are fine for those on Wall Street who interpret them for investors. They aren't fine for the poor. And helping the strongest athletic programs circle the wagons for survival is just that, about survival, and not about sports. And if you can reach the same markets with fewer schools that is great for the networks (corporate America), but it is horrible for the upward mobility of the poor. Your measuring stick is too broad to detect what is under your nose. In poor neighborhoods that measuring stick is useless. It is intended as information for the wealthy to make determinations about investment, and not specific enough to measure the economic conditions for the poor. The numbers weren't designed to measure what happens below the middle class precisely because that demographic doesn't invest.

In America our mission field is on the other side of the tracks, or in the poor section of town, just as surely as it is in Brazil, Mexico, Haiti, or Columbia. It's just that our mission teams don't get to see a place they haven't seen before if they work 2 weeks across town, and if they had the guts to do so, they don't want to have to be accountable to those people 364 days a year. 14 days and a lot of distance and whole different language away seems much safer. But isn't it wiser to deal with our problems here to make our own backyard safer? If sports offerings cease to exist at lower rungs in our society due to economic hard times what will that do to the despair among the poor, and to the crime rate?

Like what's happening in our Sports world with the court rulings, we only howl when our ox is gored, and if the richest among us protect themselves, we have the illusion of safety. And instead of acknowledging the reality of the cause, we deny it, and pretend it is something else. 34 trillion in debt, and a lower of the rating of the U.S. dollar to a B+ rating wasn't enough to get our attention. And it is quite possible that reducing college football to 48 to 72 relevant schools won't get it either. But the ill effects of not having sports offerings subsidized at lower levels will impact the quality of life for all of us if drug use and crime expand to fill that vacuum. I think the courts are right to pay athletes. I just think in looking only at that level of sports play and making that decision, they have not considered at all the collateral damage that will be wrought by not considering the impact of their decision upon the very community they believe themselves to be helping. This is why limits upon earnings and intentional pass down to lower tiers of sports have to be accounted for. And I'm not talking taxpayer subsidies for small town U to have sports facilities to rival larger schools. I'm talking about community level activities for the young in poor areas. And at universities affordable to them and accepting of students with growing edges academically. One size fits all rulings leave gaps that our adversaries and their philosophies can exploit. We claim to be an enlightened society, but to be one all aspects of it have to be considered.

It's the things happening around you every day if we would only look, that tell us what's coming and help us with early detection to be able to avert catastrophe.

Well, at the risk of being a broken record here you lay out the problem without properly pointing to the cause.

I agree with you on inflation and the metrics commonly used not being realistic. Trust me, I've had to pay for my family's health insurance for the past decade, the price of daycare pretty much pulled my wife out of the workforce and made us a one income family and the cost of college is daunting. Thankfully I make a decent living but "getting ahead" has been damn near impossible it seems. That was before the post Covid inflation. Wage growth at the lower levels actually has been higher than inflation on average but it doesn't climb the ladder to the middle class and I'm not getting any subsidies on health insurance. Meanwhile, the millennials are set to inherit the boomers wealth and become the wealthiest generation in history but the wealth disparity will be obscene. There's two factors of this problem, costs rising and wealth not. You want to point at the rising costs but looking at the country as a whole, our wealth has been rising. GDP per capita has risen at a steady pace, it's just not being dispersed across all income levels as equitably as it has in the past. In the early 90's the highest paid employees were making about 60 times the average employee (if you go back to the 50's-60's it was like 10-15X) and today it's 345 times. Sure, rising costs suck but according to the Feds it should ideally be a 10% increase per decade, it's expected but is that the real problem? Are we all in this together?

You see where I'm going with this so let's bring it back to sports. The rising cost to compete (the inflation) was caused by an influx of cash into the economy by media dollars and that increase went to the top 1%. And let's not kid ourselves, the costs have been rising for a while now, that arms war I was referring to earlier. It just hasn't hit those top schools so much because their income was steadily increasing. But this is where the comparison of overall economy to sports economy will break down. We're not starving. It's been a long time since USM was really competing with Alabama, we're used to that. Now the rising costs are going to be squarely pointed at the upper class. Sure students being considered employees will add costs to us but not in the same way and the lower divisions will be allowed to stay amateur even if it takes an act of congress. But the revenue sports athletes, they want a piece of the pie and we don't get much pie. It's the power schools pie they're going to eat. So maybe the comparison does work but student athletes are just going to be the first ones to actually "eat the rich". This is about survival if survival means staying atop of the ivory tower, the new proposal for the CFP makes that clear.

Edit: I pretty much agree with your last paragraph that was added after I quoted. The market will determine value and that's the solution. Kids would play just for the opportunity let alone a scholarship.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2024 04:01 PM by mturn017.)
03-12-2024 03:50 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Jim Phillips: “You can go from 28 to 6 sports in one fiscal year.”
(03-12-2024 03:44 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 01:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 01:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:58 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2024 10:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  He's not wrong. A lot of D1 schools are already heavily subsidizing NCAA sports. Student-athletes as employees will make the entire enterprise more expensive. It won't make financial sense for a lot of these schools to be in D1.

Nevertheless, the P4 should all be able to afford the current minimum sponsorship threshold of NCAA Division 1. Schools like Stanford and UVa would be better-off sponsoring fewer sports, and reallocating expenditures into revenue generating sports.

And most of them are already being fairly compensated through scholarships room and board and COA.

"Fairly compensated" as decided by whom ?
The vast majority are compensated at a far higher rate than they could get anywhere else. That applies to pretty much anyone but certain Division I men's football and basketball players. And it applies to the vast majority of them outside the P6.

Although I agree with the bolded, that is not the relevant question that courts are deciding. There is currently no rational means for determining whether today’s student-athletes are receiving adequate compensation. Student-athletes don’t have sufficient agency in the current setup of the NCAA.

It seems almost inevitable that NCAA student-athletes will be deemed employees…as the courts are always seeking to protect minority rights. High revenue programs can afford the change. It’s not that hard for Stanford, BC and UNC to cut-back to 20 sponsored sports (they become more like the typical SEC or B12 program). The power conferences will probably all embrace the change.

But there is - mentioned above What does a G League player make? What does a XFL player make. What is the ceiling on the 53rd man on the roster of Alabama?

What does a non-collegate fencer make? Or volleyballer? Compare that to full ride, room and board, FCOA and most athletes make more under the current system.
03-12-2024 03:51 PM
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