(03-15-2024 12:13 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:59 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:49 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  I still didnt think Penny needed to be fired, but feel he could be deserving after listening to his press conference.

He was asked what he couldve done better.. all he talked about was how hard he worked. He obviously has ZERO clue what he did wrong.. no accountability for letting Brown come back to the team and playing him significant minutes in games like this. If he was let go I wouldnt feel a bit sorry for him

Every postgame this year when Penny’s asked what he or the coaches could do differently, he spins it around to what the players could do differently or gets defensive and talks about all he’s already done. He never gives substantive things that he could improve on or would change in hindsight.

at some point the players need to do. Maybe he and the other coaches taught what to do but the players couldnt or wouldnt do it . we are not at practice and dont know exactly where the issue lies. could be the staff and players .

After 6 years every single thing that happens on or off the floor is Penny's responsibility.

(03-15-2024 01:28 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 12:13 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:59 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:49 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  I still didnt think Penny needed to be fired, but feel he could be deserving after listening to his press conference.

He was asked what he couldve done better.. all he talked about was how hard he worked. He obviously has ZERO clue what he did wrong.. no accountability for letting Brown come back to the team and playing him significant minutes in games like this. If he was let go I wouldnt feel a bit sorry for him

Every postgame this year when Penny’s asked what he or the coaches could do differently, he spins it around to what the players could do differently or gets defensive and talks about all he’s already done. He never gives substantive things that he could improve on or would change in hindsight.

at some point the players need to do. Maybe he and the other coaches taught what to do but the players couldnt or wouldnt do it . we are not at practice and dont know exactly where the issue lies. could be the staff and players .

After 6 years every single thing that happens on or off the floor is Penny's responsibility.

Honest question, if they fire Penny, which I assume is your position, how much will you raise your donation amount?

(03-15-2024 01:32 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:28 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 12:13 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:59 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:49 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  I still didnt think Penny needed to be fired, but feel he could be deserving after listening to his press conference.

He was asked what he couldve done better.. all he talked about was how hard he worked. He obviously has ZERO clue what he did wrong.. no accountability for letting Brown come back to the team and playing him significant minutes in games like this. If he was let go I wouldnt feel a bit sorry for him

Every postgame this year when Penny’s asked what he or the coaches could do differently, he spins it around to what the players could do differently or gets defensive and talks about all he’s already done. He never gives substantive things that he could improve on or would change in hindsight.

at some point the players need to do. Maybe he and the other coaches taught what to do but the players couldnt or wouldnt do it . we are not at practice and dont know exactly where the issue lies. could be the staff and players .

After 6 years every single thing that happens on or off the floor is Penny's responsibility.

Honest question, if they fire Penny, which I assume is your position, how much will you raise your donation amount?

I don't think Penny should be fired. I think he is the absolute best Memphis can do.

Juwan Howard just got fired at Michigan.

(03-15-2024 01:34 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:32 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:28 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 12:13 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:59 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  Every postgame this year when Penny’s asked what he or the coaches could do differently, he spins it around to what the players could do differently or gets defensive and talks about all he’s already done. He never gives substantive things that he could improve on or would change in hindsight.

at some point the players need to do. Maybe he and the other coaches taught what to do but the players couldnt or wouldnt do it . we are not at practice and dont know exactly where the issue lies. could be the staff and players .

After 6 years every single thing that happens on or off the floor is Penny's responsibility.

Honest question, if they fire Penny, which I assume is your position, how much will you raise your donation amount?

I don't think Penny should be fired. I think he is the absolute best Memphis can do.

Most Memphis response ever posted on this board. This mentality keeps the university and the city itself from being the absolute best it can be.

(03-15-2024 01:15 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:08 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Juan Howard head coach from Michigan just got the boot from the University.

yet Memphis will continue to hang on to PH.

I don't think Penny should be fired right now. I think the disappointing seasons would be much more palatable of he would:

-acknowledge the seasons as disappointing (not that he did a great job)

-give concrete examples of what he can do better in the future (instead of talking about how hard he's worked and how he's drawn up perfect game plans).

All of this is especially frustrating because of 3Ds-- drama, disappointing results, and denial. If Penny could get over the denial piece-- instead of lashing out against critiques-- the other two would be more palatable.

I was completely on board with Penny getting at least one more year until his postgame remarks after WSU whereby he once again decried his system and preparation as perfect and put the blame on the players.

An inability to accept responsibility as the leader is a ship that will likely never get righted.

It will be a constant cycle of the same system and praising himself when we win and blaming the players when we lose but what will never change is the system because in his mind it is perfection.

As a business owner, I have eaten a lot of over the years for problems that ultimately were an employe acting outside of company policies. Early on I would lay blame where I believed it belonged and would blame employees. That rarely satiated the dissatisfied client. At some point I realized most clients do not want to hear an excuse of an employee but want an acceptance of responsibility, an apology and commitment to making it right or not letting it happen again in the future. And truthfully, most of them walk away almost more satisfied than before because they feel heard and appreciated. Penny does the complete opposite where he blames the employees and then attacks the customers... The ego is just too big...

(03-15-2024 03:43 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:15 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:08 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Juan Howard head coach from Michigan just got the boot from the University.

yet Memphis will continue to hang on to PH.

I don't think Penny should be fired right now. I think the disappointing seasons would be much more palatable of he would:

-acknowledge the seasons as disappointing (not that he did a great job)

-give concrete examples of what he can do better in the future (instead of talking about how hard he's worked and how he's drawn up perfect game plans).

All of this is especially frustrating because of 3Ds-- drama, disappointing results, and denial. If Penny could get over the denial piece-- instead of lashing out against critiques-- the other two would be more palatable.

I was completely on board with Penny getting at least one more year until his postgame remarks after WSU whereby he once again decried his system and preparation as perfect and put the blame on the players.

An inability to accept responsibility as the leader is a ship that will likely never get righted.

Yeah, the denial is the killer and I hope he has a come to Jesus realization this summer that everything he dreamed of is on the line. The Orlando Magic aren't going to be interviewing him if he doesn't change anything.

(03-15-2024 03:43 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:15 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:08 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Juan Howard head coach from Michigan just got the boot from the University.

yet Memphis will continue to hang on to PH.

I don't think Penny should be fired right now. I think the disappointing seasons would be much more palatable of he would:

-acknowledge the seasons as disappointing (not that he did a great job)

-give concrete examples of what he can do better in the future (instead of talking about how hard he's worked and how he's drawn up perfect game plans).

All of this is especially frustrating because of 3Ds-- drama, disappointing results, and denial. If Penny could get over the denial piece-- instead of lashing out against critiques-- the other two would be more palatable.

I was completely on board with Penny getting at least one more year until his postgame remarks after WSU whereby he once again decried his system and preparation as perfect and put the blame on the players.

An inability to accept responsibility as the leader is a ship that will likely never get righted.

It will be a constant cycle of the same system and praising himself when we win and blaming the players when we lose but what will never change is the system because in his mind it is perfection.

As a business owner, I have eaten a lot of over the years for problems that ultimately were an employe acting outside of company policies. Early on I would lay blame where I believed it belonged and would blame employees. That rarely satiated the dissatisfied client. At some point I realized most clients do not want to hear an excuse of an employee but want an acceptance of responsibility, an apology and commitment to making it right or not letting it happen again in the future. And truthfully, most of them walk away almost more satisfied than before because they feel heard and appreciated. Penny does the complete opposite where he blames the employees and then attacks the customers... The ego is just too big...

That's a good analogy

(03-15-2024 01:20 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  I also think the denial piece has put our fan base in a really unhealthy position. If you read the Facebook group, any Penny criticism is viewed as unjustified hatred. I have yet to see anyone call for Penny to be fired right now. Instead, it seems like our more basketball savvy fans are having to argue with the (as someone put it in a recent post) Penny Bathwater Drinkers as to why his tenure has been less than ideal so far. This puts the savvy fans in a uniquely frustrating fault-finding position to try to open the eyes of others to his shortcomings

Penny calling his results “great” only adds fuel to the fire

The fb group worshipping is almost scary. They like Penny will blame anyone and anything to absolve him.

Its uncanny how stupid the posters on the FB group are. None of them seem to really watch college basketball... just happy clap and hate on anyone critical of Penny

(03-15-2024 10:55 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  Its uncanny how stupid the posters on the FB group are. None of them seem to really watch college basketball... just happy clap and hate on anyone critical of Penny

They were the same with Pastner and also Tubby. It's what they do.

IF firing Penny is even brought up as a possibility the howls and shrieks of racism will drown out any reasonable explanation. I'll predict it right now, half the city will go into meltdown mode over the perceived slight that firing such a high profile black man will create and the race card will be played.

He could prevent all that by stepping down for the good of the program.

And FTR, I have been a Penny supporter from day one. I just can't do it anymore, I love Penny the person, it's Penny the coach I have issues with.

(03-15-2024 01:34 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:32 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:28 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 12:13 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 06:59 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  Every postgame this year when Penny’s asked what he or the coaches could do differently, he spins it around to what the players could do differently or gets defensive and talks about all he’s already done. He never gives substantive things that he could improve on or would change in hindsight.

at some point the players need to do. Maybe he and the other coaches taught what to do but the players couldnt or wouldnt do it . we are not at practice and dont know exactly where the issue lies. could be the staff and players .

After 6 years every single thing that happens on or off the floor is Penny's responsibility.

Honest question, if they fire Penny, which I assume is your position, how much will you raise your donation amount?

I don't think Penny should be fired. I think he is the absolute best Memphis can do.

Penny is absolute best we can do ?---
Find a coach who is more loyal to City and basketball program ? Hell No
Find a coach who can recruit/ sign better players than Jalen Duren, Precious, and Wiseman (that was a disaster)? That will not be easy. But, I will point out that this is a program that has signed Keith Lee, Larry Kennon, Larry Finch, Sylvester Grey, Elliott Perry, Penny Hardaway, L Wright, Will Barton, DeJuan Wagner, CDR, etc.
Of course, NIL and transfer portal has changed recruiting and roster building so much.
Find a coach who is better overall coach ( Xs Os, player development, etc)? Memphis could do better than Penny.

(03-15-2024 03:43 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:15 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 01:08 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Juan Howard head coach from Michigan just got the boot from the University.

yet Memphis will continue to hang on to PH.

I don't think Penny should be fired right now. I think the disappointing seasons would be much more palatable of he would:

-acknowledge the seasons as disappointing (not that he did a great job)

-give concrete examples of what he can do better in the future (instead of talking about how hard he's worked and how he's drawn up perfect game plans).

All of this is especially frustrating because of 3Ds-- drama, disappointing results, and denial. If Penny could get over the denial piece-- instead of lashing out against critiques-- the other two would be more palatable.

I was completely on board with Penny getting at least one more year until his postgame remarks after WSU whereby he once again decried his system and preparation as perfect and put the blame on the players.

An inability to accept responsibility as the leader is a ship that will likely never get righted.

It will be a constant cycle of the same system and praising himself when we win and blaming the players when we lose but what will never change is the system because in his mind it is perfection.

As a business owner, I have eaten a lot of over the years for problems that ultimately were an employe acting outside of company policies. Early on I would lay blame where I believed it belonged and would blame employees. That rarely satiated the dissatisfied client. At some point I realized most clients do not want to hear an excuse of an employee but want an acceptance of responsibility, an apology and commitment to making it right or not letting it happen again in the future. And truthfully, most of them walk away almost more satisfied than before because they feel heard and appreciated. Penny does the complete opposite where he blames the employees and then attacks the customers... The ego is just too big...

Yeah 20 years of owning a small business, the employee who screwed up IS "the company". I never tried to pass anything off on an employee, ultimately it is my fault because the company messed up and I own the company. Just accept responsibility, fix the problem. I dont give Penny (or any coach) a "my player didnt do what I wanted" pass and never will.

(03-15-2024 01:37 PM)DallasTiger Wrote:  Juwan Howard just got fired at Michigan.

8-24 will get you every time

(03-14-2024 09:32 AM)griffin Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 09:25 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 08:54 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 08:30 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 09:23 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  considering we were on NCAA probation we needed a goody-goody like Pastner to keep the NCAA away. see how fast they showed up once Penny was hired?

I mean, you're not crazy if they really are out to get ya.

you don’t recruit the way Pastner recruited at Memphis by being squeaky clean.

He learned plausible deniability from Cal.

If Pastner was such a conscientious person he would not have worked for Cal.

Or associated with Ron Bell in any type of way. Pastner was way too willing to overlook very visible red flags just because he liked having someone kiss his ass so much. Allowed that man around the players and staff for a good ass licking.

2 of the highest rated players that signed with Pastner during his era, he had no clue they were picking Memphis as their final destination Others made sure they selected Memphis.

I can confirm that one of the players that Josh had actually given up recruitiung the player and the players family called Josh out of the blue to "ask how the player would be utilized in Josh's system"

I can also confirm that Joe Jackson sais that he was coming to Memphis no matter who the coach was ....

You know, The Joe Jackson that went to 4 straight NCAAs --- the ONLY 4 NCAAs that Pastner managed at Memphis

(03-14-2024 12:27 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 09:24 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 01:54 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 10:08 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 06:17 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  I look at Eric Mussleman, Mark Few, Bill Self, Kelvin Sampson, Hubert Davis, and cannot help but think he is not doing really well...

I do not care how he compares to other former players turned coaches. Being the best of the worst is not a real accomplishment.

Muss? hmmm
Didn't Penny beat him pretty decently on a neutral floor earlier this year?
Yeah, he's had some nice runs in previous years.
But he's been 9th or worse in the SEC in 3 out of 5 years, and has an overall losing record this year.
Maybe not the right time to throw him in that group.

You are joking right?

Last 3 years...
2021 - 3 seed - Elite 8
2022 - 4 seed - Elite 8
2023 - 8 seed - Sweet 16

Yes, this is a down year but after 3 years of runs like that I am comfortable putting him as a coach whose results have far exceeded Penny's... Penny would have 98% fan support (leave 2% for the crazies) right now if he had two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16 in the last 3 years.

It's just a stretch listing him with perennial national title contenders.
ESPECIALLY considering Penny beat him pretty easily this year - when BOTH programs are having down years.
They've got the $EC money and had the top 20 ranking, and we beat them on a neutral.
Just an odd name on the list.

Stretch is acting like Mussleman has not absolutely had better results than Penny. But for fun we will compare the last 3 year

Gonzaga
Championship game runner up
Sweet 16 (lost to Arkansas)
Elite 8
Currently 17

Kansas
Second round
Champion
Second round (lost to Arkansas)
About to drop out of top 25, lost 4 of last 5

Houston
Final Four
Elite Eight
Sweet 16
Currently 1

UNC
First round (Roy Williams)
Championship game runner up
NIT, turned down invite
Currently 4

So, again. You can hang on to one game in a singular year and ignore the past few but we both know that is silly. And it is a bit of an odd thing to decide to take issue with. Again, if Penny had Mussleman's results the past 3 years and then was having this year there would be no discussion of a possible hot seat and he would have the fan base completely united behind him, which is my entire point.

You got it wrong. I ain't saying Penny has had better results than Muss. Don't be silly.

I'm saying if you're making a list of coaches to benchmark, I'm not thinking Muss is up there with Self and Few. The fact that Penny is 1-0 against him is just a humorous footnote.

(03-14-2024 05:10 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 10:16 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 03:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 01:25 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 11:20 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  We were in a grand total of 1 bracket out of 97. No we weren't a bubble team.

Bubble teams are not "in". They are on the bubble, hence the name, to get in - depending on how things play out. There's the right side of the bubble, and the wrong side. We were on the wrong side - but absolutely on the bubble. Meaning, if we win a couple of games and bid-stealers are low, we could be in.
We were on Palm's bubble.
We were on Lunardi's bubble.
We were on the bubble at SI and USA Today.
This is not that complicated. We were in fact a bubble team.

Being in 1 bracket out of a million is not a bubble team. There were 5 true bubble teams that year and we weren't one of them. There was no suspense on whether we were going to make the field or not. From NBC Sports, "A bubble team is a team that is on the verge of making the field of 68 for the NCAA Tournament, but an invitation isn’t guaranteed." That 100% did not describe us because we had to win the conference tournament to make it. Just like this year, we are in the "next 4 out" but have to win the conference tournament to make it in. Zero chance of an at large = not a bubble team.

I really hate to keep going back and forth, because you seem to have this narrative and you're not going to acknowledge otherwise. But I think it's important because a few people keep saying 2 tournaments in 6 years like it's fact ,and others are believing it without looking at the data.

1. "Next 4 out" is a bubble team. It's why it's there. These guys have to hedge their bets so they list anyone with a shot at making the field. Teams like ECU are not listed at all, hence they are not "on the bubble". But they could still win the tourney and get in. Those teams are "bid stealers" - not bubble teams. Any team listed as last in or last out is a bubble team. Bracketologists will tell you those teams do NOT have "zero chance".

2. We were 59 in the NET and KP. Every year there are teams with worse ratings getting At Large. 33% of teams in the past 3 years (3 out of 9) rated between 58-60 in the NET made the NCAA field. That's not a majority (which seems to be how you are defining "bubble") - but 1/3 is definitely a real number and more than "zero chance".

3. The AAC tourney was not played - so there was that shot. Houston was good but not the juggernaut they are today.

4. BRACKETOLOGISTS LISTED US ON THE BUBBLE AT THE END OF THE SEASON. You keep saying "1 bracket had us in". Being "in" is not the definition of the bubble. It's the opposite - in is in. The bubble is those 12-ish teams who are being watched to fill those last 4-ish spots.

a. Bracket Matrix. Yes only one bracket had us IN. That's "IN". That does not include those who had us just outside with work to be done in the conference tourney. Those 10 teams listed below the cut line are the 10 on the bubble.
2020 Bracket Matrix

b. ESPN listed us as a bubble team heading into the AAC. Wrong side of the bubble, yes - but still on the bubble.
"The Tigers are listed variously as "First four out" and "Next four out," and therefore need quality wins. The American bracket might not cooperate there even if Memphis does."
2020 ESPN bracketology

c. USA Today. Bubble team heading into last week of the season.
2020 USA Today Bubble Watch

d. SI. Wrong side of bubble - but still listed as Bubble Watch in the last column I could find.
2020 SI Bubble Teams

I mean do you ever just get tired of being wrong? Apparently not, but you should.

lol
That's the best you can do?
I provide multiple sources to prove you wrong, and your comeback is that I'm wrong.
Is it trolling, or just complete lack of self awareness?