The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

*Somebody that know how to paste film clips in here go get that scene.

(03-06-2024 02:31 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 12:35 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  To me our problem is outside shooting. The injury to Fredrick has IMO cost us at least 3 games.

A healthy Frederick andtoday’s conversation would be totally different.

I've held a strong belief that there's a correlation between Cincinnati's offensive doldrums since the turn of the new year and CJ's absence. I'd also go further and say that Vik's troubles recently compounded the issues. Put both of them together and those are two key contributors who simply aren't making positive contributions to the team during a critical point of the season. It's really no wonder to me why this team went 3-6 since the start of February.

Agree on all of this, but it's also why many of us were worried about CJ. He was a risky add. It made sense why they added him though, because Landers left and they missed on Estrada (Bama swooped in).

But the other little thing is when they brought in CJ, they thought they'd have MAW as a reliable guy in a role where he really wouldn't have to do much other than defend, make smart decisions and hit open threes. The weird situation where apparently Ole Miss came in offer MAW a big NIL deal then backed out when they landed someone else and he ended up at St. Bonnie got rid of that insurance policy.

The lack of a reliable 2 guard is a glaring weakness that would have really changed this team. Hopefully, in an offseason where Wes can be more selective and doesn't have to replace 5 of his top 6 scorers, the roster holes can be fixed. There is good talent on this team...just not far enough along in some cases, not high end enough in other cases, and missing talent in a couple of key spots.

(03-06-2024 02:30 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I've said it all year. Wes needs an elder statesman on the bench. He does so many things well but in game management, adjustments and to a degree game prep, we aint' out coaching anyone with comparable talent levels.

We will agree to disagree.

Phil Martelli will probably be available lol.

Fans have a lot of confirmation bias. Last night UC jumped out to a quick 7-0. Simas made a three, John had a runout on a layup, Aziz got a steal that turned into a Simas layup. Oklahoma called timeout to stop the run.

A few minutes later UC was up 18-5. This time Oklahoma didn't call timeout. Eventually, the game started whittling down.

Their timeout didn't magically change the game. Basketball is often a game of runs. You don't have many games like UC v. Florida State in the NCAA tournament where nobody can go on a run. If the run stops shortly after a timeout fans will credit the timeout, but there are plenty of times where the timeout is called and that doesn't happen. And the runs will stop without a timeout being called too.

I just think a large percentage of fans overrate the value of the run stopping timeout.

(03-06-2024 02:46 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Huh? I tend to dislike zone...but any coach who cannot change things up in game by using it when needed is either in over his head or is a stubborn fool.

But if it makes you feel better, you do you.

We played a switching man-to-man for most of the first half, something we almost never do. You can change a defense up without going to zone.

To paraphrase Chad Brendel "there are about 100 different types of man-to-man defense and most fans don't know enough to tell the difference between them". Just because we don't play zone much, doesn't mean our defense isn't changing.

Each new defense takes time to practice and work out the kinks. Roster continuity next year (assuming we maintain it) should increase the number of types of defense we can switch to.

We also threw in a little bit of zone last night. Not much, just a few possessions.

(03-06-2024 03:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 02:31 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 12:35 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  To me our problem is outside shooting. The injury to Fredrick has IMO cost us at least 3 games.

A healthy Frederick andtoday’s conversation would be totally different.

I've held a strong belief that there's a correlation between Cincinnati's offensive doldrums since the turn of the new year and CJ's absence. I'd also go further and say that Vik's troubles recently compounded the issues. Put both of them together and those are two key contributors who simply aren't making positive contributions to the team during a critical point of the season. It's really no wonder to me why this team went 3-6 since the start of February.

Agree on all of this, but it's also why many of us were worried about CJ. He was a risky add. It made sense why they added him though, because Landers left and they missed on Estrada (Bama swooped in).

But the other little thing is when they brought in CJ, they thought they'd have MAW as a reliable guy in a role where he really wouldn't have to do much other than defend, make smart decisions and hit open threes. The weird situation where apparently Ole Miss came in offer MAW a big NIL deal then backed out when they landed someone else and he ended up at St. Bonnie got rid of that insurance policy.

The lack of a reliable 2 guard is a glaring weakness that would have really changed this team. Hopefully, in an offseason where Wes can be more selective and doesn't have to replace 5 of his top 6 scorers, the roster holes can be fixed. There is good talent on this team...just not far enough along in some cases, not high end enough in other cases, and missing talent in a couple of key spots.

I also think this staff assumed Skillings was going to make a bigger leap in being an outside scoring threat and Day Day would've been more reliable from three as well. The fact that both of them weren't and CJ was gone for a while really stymied Cincinnati offensively in Big 12 play.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Skillings will continue to improve that aspect of his game next year, as he has in other aspects this season, but you're right, priority in the portal has to be at least one, preferably a pair of shooting guards that can rain threes. It seems like this offense does a decent job at designing open looks for shooters beyond the arc but no one besides CJ and Simas can reliably hit them.

Hell, Bearcatman, I'd even take a Lorenzo Romar at this point. Someone with gray hair and battle scars who isn't wrapped up in ever second of the game like a fan who can say "Youngblood...might be a good time for......"

Watch Wes and he is cheering, clapping, stomping and running back and forth like he is in the student section some games. No wonder he is drained in postgames.

(03-06-2024 12:35 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  [quote='Cal1362' pid='19501307' dateline='1709739102']
I'm still a big fan of CWM and this team as a whole. The season has gone about how I expected but with a couple more Ls but the 'Cats have represented themselves very well IMO with the step up in competition. With that said I think CWM was outcoached last night... by CWM. Or maybe CWM overcoached himself and UC out of a W at OU.
This team is a reflection of CWM in a big way and when they "just play the game" they are terrific. But then they, including Wes, start to think they have to prove they are as ______ (fill in the blank) as the big boys and they shoot themselves in the foot. From last night, UC races out to a double digit lead with Aziz, SL, DS, Day Day and JN3 on the floor. And then the substitutions started to happen and how long was it until we saw that lineup back on the floor together? That group was clicking so stay with them. They were moving the ball, playing great complementary D and overwhelming OU. Now next game, they may not click the same way but when one or two came out the goal should have been to get that crew back together on the floor until they cooled off. OU had no answer for the combo.
At the other end of the game, CWM knows (or should know) that this team's strength is not attacking set defenses in the half court but in the game closing situations with OU out of TOs, he kept calling TOs allowing them to either set up their D or plan an offensive set/look. UC scrambles as well as well as any team they have played and IMO CWM should play to that
As much as I like the idea of Jizzle and Day Day on the court together, it feels like it stifles ball movement and leads to a lot more dribbling and one on one type offense that results in forced bad shots late in the clock if they can't beat their man off the bounce. Hopefully that grouping evolves and becomes more of a drive and dish type set although Jizzle is an amazing finisher for a true frosh.
At times it seems like CWM is trying too hard and "over coaching" instead of letting the game come to him and that that is rubbing off on his team, which mirrors his personality IMO. Both seem to trying to prove "they belong" in the land of the big boys instead of just letting their play prove the point
But like I said, I think the future is very bright for the program and the coach. As frustrating as it's been at times, I've enjoyed this season more that most seasons for a while
[/quote

To me our problem is outside shooting. The injury to Fredrick has IMO cost us at least 3 games.

A healthy Frederick andtoday’s conversation would be totally different.

I don't get the love fest with CJ. He really didn't do much all year even before injury and he cannot create his own shot. I think it's optimistic view of what he could have been.

Two biggest portal disappointments are Reynolds and CJ. You get a shooting guard and a scoring big and this team is probably a lock going into senior night instead of needing 3 to 4 wins just get into the bubble conversation. Two years in a row this team really isn’t close to making the tournament but really isn’t in jeopardy of missing the NIT. It’s an odd spot because you don’t want blow things up but running it back with this group doesn’t guarantee success.

I still feel that Wes needs to grow up a bit on the sideline, I wouldn’t be against a well timed ejection in a game where the result has been decided. Heck if UC is getting screwed over next week and the game is basically lost, Wes better let the league officials have it.

I mean this is who Reynolds was at Temple. He just got more minutes there. What did people expect? He still has the same game on both ends.

CJ was a high injury risk all along. Hope he was paid handsomely for his time here.

The portal has a way of making fans think every guy who leaves is a chump and every guy who comes in is all world. I can be guilty of it, too. But we really all knew who Reynolds was.

(03-06-2024 04:30 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Hell, Bearcatman, I'd even take a Lorenzo Romar at this point. Someone with gray hair and battle scars who isn't wrapped up in ever second of the game like a fan who can say "Youngblood...might be a good time for......"

Watch Wes and he is cheering, clapping, stomping and running back and forth like he is in the student section some games. No wonder he is drained in postgames.

There were a couple of interactions last night that got on tape between he and Loeffler where Wes clearly wasn't listening and just watching the free throws. I hadn't seen that before...was a little alarming.

(03-06-2024 04:45 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 04:30 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Hell, Bearcatman, I'd even take a Lorenzo Romar at this point. Someone with gray hair and battle scars who isn't wrapped up in ever second of the game like a fan who can say "Youngblood...might be a good time for......"

Watch Wes and he is cheering, clapping, stomping and running back and forth like he is in the student section some games. No wonder he is drained in postgames.

There were a couple of interactions last night that got on tape between he and Loeffler where Wes clearly wasn't listening and just watching the free throws. I hadn't seen that before...was a little alarming.

I've been seeing that kind of stuff for 2 years. He can get so emotionally hung up on every play. You can be too into it as a coach.

Mick used to go over the top with rants but he would be calm in between. Wes is running around cheering for 40 minutes some games like a parent. CLF used to do that his first year here until he slowed his roll. I swear he wanted to play NT again back then.

(03-06-2024 04:41 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I mean this is who Reynolds was at Temple. He just got more minutes there. What did people expect? He still has the same game on both ends.

CJ was a high injury risk all along. Hope he was paid handsomely for his time here.

The portal has a way of making fans think every guy who leaves is a chump and every guy who comes in is all world. I can be guilty of it, too. But we really all knew who Reynolds was.

The clear stars are generally being paid more than we can afford to get them here.

The options in the portal are usually either take a gamble on someone with flaws, hope you can fix them and they become a star (Fredrick, Reynolds, Aziz). Or you take a proven solid, steady player, who's a good piece but never going to be a top of the Big 12 guy (Simas).

So far it seems like Wes is inclined to be a bit more of a gambler, though if we get/develop a couple of stars his philosophy will probably change.

Chad predicted three transfer spots will open up, I'm hoping Reynolds and Fredrick leaving create two of the open spots.

I have not read through the threads yet but here’s my venting:


We played hard and were prepared.
Been a while since I remember us starting out strong. That was one very good sign. Many times we are down 7 or 11-3, etc. It was nice to be up 18 five or whatever

Too many negatives.

Coach did not stretch the lead When Oklahoma came out flat. Nor did he stem the tide when they started coming back.
OK was missing a guard, and other G fouled out. So far we have not beaten any of the outgoing teams in football or M basketball.


Fundamentals - Either we aren’t teaching it or they aren’t learning it.
Near end of regulation, on fast break jizzle needs to draw the defense then dish. It was a 2 on 1 and our other player needs to stay a little bit further apart. The OK guy was basically guarding two of our guys

I know our offense is designed to take threes but when we’re not good at shooting and it’s early in the shot clock what harm is it to work for a closer shot? Why is Newman shooting so many threes?

How many three point shooters can we foul?
In OT why did Azeez close out 20” from the basket. Not sound D.

(03-06-2024 05:48 PM)ZCat Wrote:  I know our offense is designed to take threes but when we’re not good at shooting and it’s early in the shot clock what harm is it to work for a closer shot? Why is Newman shooting so many threes?

I don't think our offense is designed to take threes. We are in the lower third of teams in three point attempts per fg attempt. Our offense is designed to get the defense moving and get down hill. (Off the dribble and with cutters)

That said in a perfect world with better shooters i think Wes would like to take more 3s than we do. But because this team doesn't shoot it well they are very selective about the threes they take.

Yesterday they took a lot because of the way Oklahoma defended. They blitzed ball screens to deny penetration and then walled off the paint with their other 3. We still basically doubled them in points on the paint but because of how they chose to defend we had an inordinate amount of wide open threes. Sucks that we couldn't take advantage.

The issue with the roster is they don’t have a guy anywhere close to being all caliber Big 12.

UC likely isn’t going to get a guy like that in the portal. They have to land high school recruits and develop them into that. Wes has a total of 5 guys that came here out of high school. He didn’t have a chance to bring any in his first offseason here. He currently has Two sophomores. Two Freshmen, and a redshirt.

Skillings, despite his maddening play sometimes, is on his way there. Jizzle looks like he’s going to be a Star. Has two of the highest rated bigs UC has gotten in the last twenty years coming in next season.

In hindsight this roster construction was poor. Having only one shooting guard and basically no modern day 4 has caused a lot of problems. But they went into the off-season not knowing if Nolley would come back (and had he, this is easily a tournament team) and when he didn’t they had a ton of scoring to replace but also needed size and talent. Couldn’t afford to be real picky. Assuming most of the contributors are back Wes will be able to focus on just filling out a couple spots. He now knows first hand the kind of players it’s going to take to win consistently in this league.

this year was frustrating no doubt, but I’m still optimistic about the next few years. Just missing a couple of pieces.

(03-06-2024 05:16 PM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 04:41 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I mean this is who Reynolds was at Temple. He just got more minutes there. What did people expect? He still has the same game on both ends.

CJ was a high injury risk all along. Hope he was paid handsomely for his time here.

The portal has a way of making fans think every guy who leaves is a chump and every guy who comes in is all world. I can be guilty of it, too. But we really all knew who Reynolds was.

The clear stars are generally being paid more than we can afford to get them here.

The options in the portal are usually either take a gamble on someone with flaws, hope you can fix them and they become a star (Fredrick, Reynolds, Aziz). Or you take a proven solid, steady player, who's a good piece but never going to be a top of the Big 12 guy (Simas).

So far it seems like Wes is inclined to be a bit more of a gambler, though if we get/develop a couple of stars his philosophy will probably change.

Chad predicted three transfer spots will open up, I'm hoping Reynolds and Fredrick leaving create two of the open spots.

Assuming Aziz comes back into his starting role I don’t think there’s anyway both Reynolds and Lahkin come back. I could see Sage looking to move to a lower level. Fredrick could be a candidate to hang them up with all his injuries.

I would think everyone else stays but obviously who knows in today’s era.

(03-06-2024 06:31 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  The issue with the roster is they don’t have a guy anywhere close to being all caliber Big 12.

UC likely isn’t going to get a guy like that in the portal. They have to land high school recruits and develop them into that. Wes has a total of 5 guys that came here out of high school. He didn’t have a chance to bring any in his first offseason here. He currently has Two sophomores. Two Freshmen, and a redshirt.

Skillings, despite his maddening play sometimes, is on his way there. Jizzle looks like he’s going to be a Star. Has two of the highest rated bigs UC has gotten in the last twenty years coming in next season.

In hindsight this roster construction was poor. Having only one shooting guard and basically no modern day 4 has caused a lot of problems. But they went into the off-season not knowing if Nolley would come back (and had he, this is easily a tournament team) and when he didn’t they had a ton of scoring to replace but also needed size and talent. Couldn’t afford to be real picky. Assuming most of the contributors are back Wes will be able to focus on just filling out a couple spots. He now knows first hand the kind of players it’s going to take to win consistently in this league.

this year was frustrating no doubt, but I’m still optimistic about the next few years. Just missing a couple of pieces.

Good post that is basically how I feel. That said this team is a few breaks from being in the tourney this year. 349 in kenpom luck factor.

Ideally, continuity, development and 1 or 2 portal hits can allow this team to be a top 25 type team next year instead on top 40ish.

I also think our fans are being dismissive of the difficulty of this conference. A top 15 Kansas team that beat uconn, Kentucky, and Tennessee in the nonconference is likely to finish with 8 losses in this conference.

Last year a team that finished 19 kenpom and had a hall of fame coach went 7-11 in conference. Your record in this conference can give you a false sense that youre further away than you really are

(03-06-2024 06:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 05:48 PM)ZCat Wrote:  I know our offense is designed to take threes but when we’re not good at shooting and it’s early in the shot clock what harm is it to work for a closer shot? Why is Newman shooting so many threes?

I don't think our offense is designed to take threes. We are in the lower third of teams in three point attempts per fg attempt. Our offense is designed to get the defense moving and get down hill. (Off the dribble and with cutters)

That said in a perfect world with better shooters i think Wes would like to take more 3s than we do. But because this team doesn't shoot it well they are very selective about the threes they take.

Yesterday they took a lot because of the way Oklahoma defended. They blitzed ball screens to deny penetration and then walled off the paint with their other 3. We still basically doubled them in points on the paint but because of how they chose to defend we had an inordinate amount of wide open threes. Sucks that we couldn't take advantage.

I’m not sure the best way to say it but not that it’s designed to take many #3’s but one of our options is to get open threes. But we have to be smart. Even at a pick up game you know which player should be shooting and which player should not be shooting. Day Day and Newman shoot too many. I guess it’s just a little bit of everything. Many possessions it seems like we just make the wrong decision. In overtime I think it was, Newman went to deep and was determined to score. He was 3 ft from the basket with two defenders on him and missed. Too many possessions where we make the wrong decisions. Just watch the last three minutes of regulation and overtime. So many times it was just not anywhere near our best chance at a basket. Obviously an open shot is an open shot, but it doesn’t mean 10 seconds later we wouldn’t get a much better shot.

All if it boils down to coaching. I like Wes but unless he starts getting some top 25 players his coaching and his staffs coaching is not gonna take us far enough. I hope I’m wrong.