(03-04-2024 11:13 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:50 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:38 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  That kind of thinking is absurd, but it hasn't stopped the FBS from becoming a welfare state for teams that have no business playing the Alabama's and Ohio State's at the top level.

Should we blame Alabama, OSU-Columbus and others for playing bodybag games or "welfare" programs for taking the ~$1M check?

I blame both sides.

I blame the FCS schools for their delusional thinking that they are going to move up to the FBS, rise through the ranks, and then dethrone the Alabama's and Ohio State's when they get to the top. That's never going to happen. These FCS teams don't have the legacy and influence that the Alabama's and Ohio State's have. That all was established long before this current crop of players were even born.

I also blame the FBS for wasting money on these games. $1 million dollars could be better spent on their athletes rather than a small directional state school who they were going to blow out anyway. Also, fans aren't going to show up to a blowout game like that. The FBS teams lose money with low attendance at games like this.

And throw in the MWC, AAC and Sun Belt for not trying to find homes for those schools, leading them to further bloat FBS to survive.

(03-04-2024 10:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If I recall correctly had NMSU been offered to join the Sun Belt back ~2015 and we needed a 12th member so that we could host a conference championship game then EKU was high on the shortlist OR they and Coastal were in contention for the same spot and the Chants beat them out. I can't fully remember all that back then because I didn't keep up with realignment as close. However the NCAA changed the rule on needing 12, the SBC didn't renew or add NMSU, and EKU still hasn't escaped FCS football.

That is basically what I recall from that time as well. Also, EKU hasn't done themselves many favors since. 49-50 from 2015 to now while playing in the OVC->Indy->ASUN->UAC. Not exactly a glowing FBS resume. I do think their current admin is serious about moving up, hopefully that involves additional funding and emphasis on winning now. They have great history, but the wrong leadership have really crippled them compared to their strong performances in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.

(03-04-2024 12:22 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If I recall correctly had NMSU been offered to join the Sun Belt back ~2015 and we needed a 12th member so that we could host a conference championship game then EKU was high on the shortlist OR they and Coastal were in contention for the same spot and the Chants beat them out. I can't fully remember all that back then because I didn't keep up with realignment as close. However the NCAA changed the rule on needing 12, the SBC didn't renew or add NMSU, and EKU still hasn't escaped FCS football.

That is basically what I recall from that time as well. Also, EKU hasn't done themselves many favors since. 49-50 from 2015 to now while playing in the OVC->Indy->ASUN->UAC. Not exactly a glowing FBS resume. I do think their current admin is serious about moving up, hopefully that involves additional funding and emphasis on winning now. They have great history, but the wrong leadership have really crippled them compared to their strong performances in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.

There are schools that do well in FCS that won't do well in FBS, just as there are great college players who aren't good pros.

(03-04-2024 12:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:13 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:50 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:38 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  That kind of thinking is absurd, but it hasn't stopped the FBS from becoming a welfare state for teams that have no business playing the Alabama's and Ohio State's at the top level.

Should we blame Alabama, OSU-Columbus and others for playing bodybag games or "welfare" programs for taking the ~$1M check?

I blame both sides.

I blame the FCS schools for their delusional thinking that they are going to move up to the FBS, rise through the ranks, and then dethrone the Alabama's and Ohio State's when they get to the top. That's never going to happen. These FCS teams don't have the legacy and influence that the Alabama's and Ohio State's have. That all was established long before this current crop of players were even born.

I also blame the FBS for wasting money on these games. $1 million dollars could be better spent on their athletes rather than a small directional state school who they were going to blow out anyway. Also, fans aren't going to show up to a blowout game like that. The FBS teams lose money with low attendance at games like this.

And throw in the MWC, AAC and Sun Belt for not trying to find homes for those schools, leading them to further bloat FBS to survive.

I have no problem with the Power schools playing Group of Five schools. FBS schools should play other FBS schools. In an era of super conferences and the possibility of a 10 game conference schedule, another Power schools and a Group of 5 school may be the only non-conference games for a Power school.

(03-04-2024 10:50 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:38 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  That kind of thinking is absurd, but it hasn't stopped the FBS from becoming a welfare state for teams that have no business playing the Alabama's and Ohio State's at the top level.

Should we blame Alabama, OSU-Columbus and others for playing bodybag games or "welfare" programs for taking the ~$1M check?

Exactly. Alabama et al LOVES the G5 because the Alums demand 7-8 home games, and the only way to do that is buy games.

(03-04-2024 12:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:50 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:38 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  That kind of thinking is absurd, but it hasn't stopped the FBS from becoming a welfare state for teams that have no business playing the Alabama's and Ohio State's at the top level.

Should we blame Alabama, OSU-Columbus and others for playing bodybag games or "welfare" programs for taking the ~$1M check?

Exactly. Alabama et al LOVES the G5 because the Alums demand 7-8 home games, and the only way to do that is buy games.

Nonsense. The ADs love those games. Fans not as much. Even Alabama has had trouble filling the house for those blowouts. The AD has commented about it. Those games are boring. UGA had to upgrade their schedule due to blowback from fans about a steady September diet of weak FCS schools and weak G5 schools. If you live out of town, you really don't want to head over 4 weeks in a row.

(03-04-2024 10:30 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:19 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:27 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:13 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:52 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  Which 2-3 schools?

Scooch is being facetious, P-Chop (perhaps you know and are messing with him). That's the man's schtick.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification, Dazzler.

The great egalitarian DavidSt has got me believing every school is just a stadium expansion and a fair and just TV contract away from competing in the big-time

DavidSt does, indeed, offer a special ability to lure into thinking how we otherwise would not. That is the man's "quiet genius."

What a nice way to put spin on a lack of common sense.

I'm on record on this board as noting I'm cool with DavidSt. He brings a lot of positive elements to the table (despite his sometimes insanely produced lists).

EKU football attempting to elevate to FBS level simply makes no sense to me.

(03-04-2024 08:51 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  The Upper Midwest is an overfished pond and a comparative recruiting wasteland for football talent at the G5, while there are too many committed men's basketball programs in its footprint for MAC schools to move up the ladder

WKU's leadership should thanks MTSU's administration every day for throwing a monkey wrench in the Toppers' plans to leave for the MAC

The Upper Midwest is not an overfished pond. It does have a fair amount of FBS recruits and Ohio is the 4th or 5th best recruiting state in the country. Additionally many B1G teams recruit themselves nationally leaving a lot of players to drop to MAC schools, particularly lineman. Central Michigan produced a #1 NFL draft pick a few years ago.

The south is becoming over fished particularly when all the G5's are picking up 25% of their roster from there. The population growth in Florida/Texas has to do with people moving up from latin america and they play another brand off FB there.

But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

(03-04-2024 01:37 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  EKU football attempting to elevate to FBS level simply makes no sense to me.

Building a successful I-A program in Richmond, Kentucky seems like a very difficult task.

Guess it's mostly about the company you keep, i.e. conference affiliation

(03-04-2024 01:58 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

This seems....made up.

(03-04-2024 02:02 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:58 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

This seems....made up.

Count the midwest players on SBC/CUSA rosters.

(03-04-2024 02:23 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:02 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:58 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

This seems....made up.

Count the midwest players on SBC/CUSA rosters.

Correlation does not equal causation.

(Most G5 rosters, whether that be Sun Belt or MAC are heavily in-state players.)

(03-04-2024 02:01 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:37 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  EKU football attempting to elevate to FBS level simply makes no sense to me.

Building a successful I-A program in Richmond, Kentucky seems like a very difficult task.

Guess it's mostly about the company you keep, i.e. conference affiliation

It doesn't make sense for anyone to move up (these days) unless they have a strong financial position.

Liberty 49,000 undergrad, 1.71 billion endowment
Delaware 18,812 undergrad, 1.78 billion endowment
Kennesaw 40,581 undergrad, 100 million endowment.

You know these schools due to their size and/or endowment are going to stick around.

Eastern Kentucky 14,465, 78 million endowment
Central Oklahoma 12,364, 32 million endowment
Austin Peay 8,120, 45 million endowment

EKU has actually decent enrollment. Once you are below 12k or so the institution is leaning toward downsizing. It becomes difficult to justify the student fee.

(03-04-2024 02:23 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:02 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:58 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

This seems....made up.

Count the midwest players on SBC/CUSA rosters.

that doesn't mean Why would southern schools want midwestern players in the first place when they've got plenty in their own backyard?

(03-04-2024 12:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are only about a dozen schools that make any sense at all and many of them don't have the fan support, finances or willingness to move up. There are schools in small states like the Dakotas and Montana schools that could move up, but would be limited to being a Wyoming. I think Idaho made the right long term decision to move down.

Would a hypothetical conference like the following be comparable in terms of level of play and fan interest to the MAC and C-USA?

NDSU
North Dakota
SDSU
South Dakota
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Wyoming (just for discussion's sake)

(03-04-2024 02:38 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:23 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:02 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:58 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

This seems....made up.

Count the midwest players on SBC/CUSA rosters.

that doesn't mean Why would southern schools want midwestern players in the first place when they've got plenty in their own backyard?

The G5 recruiting classes do not support the concept of endless FB talent in the south.

Median G5 recruiting classes (2024) by conference:

AAC 168.22
SBC 153.78
MAC 150.75
MWC 146.95
CUSA 135.52

CUSA sitting at the bottom says we've moved past the saturation point of G5 call ups in the south. The MWC has more of a recruiting problem than the MAC because of their geography. AAC is good but its led by USF at 197.92 which is heading out the door to a P4 soon by all estimation.

There is already about 8 too many FBS programs in the south and prospects for more in the next few years.

(03-04-2024 02:55 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are only about a dozen schools that make any sense at all and many of them don't have the fan support, finances or willingness to move up. There are schools in small states like the Dakotas and Montana schools that could move up, but would be limited to being a Wyoming. I think Idaho made the right long term decision to move down.

Would a hypothetical conference like the following be comparable in terms of level of play and fan interest to the MAC and C-USA?

NDSU
North Dakota
SDSU
South Dakota
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Wyoming (just for discussion's sake)

They would probably be right down at the bottom of FBS in recruiting as a composite group.

If NDSU/SDSU by themesleves moved up they could be a "Wyoming" in the MAC taking recruits in from the surrounding FCS programs. Regular 6+ win programs.

(03-04-2024 03:00 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:38 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:23 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:02 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:58 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  But I will say almost nobody in the Midwest wants to play FB in the south which gives the MAC an advantage.

This seems....made up.

Count the midwest players on SBC/CUSA rosters.

that doesn't mean Why would southern schools want midwestern players in the first place when they've got plenty in their own backyard?

The G5 recruiting classes do not support the concept of endless FB talent in the south.

Median G5 recruiting classes (2024) by conference:

AAC 168.22
SBC 153.78
MAC 150.75
MWC 146.95
CUSA 135.52

CUSA sitting at the bottom says we've moved past the saturation point of G5 call ups in the south. The MWC has more of a recruiting problem than the MAC because of their geography. AAC is good but its led by USF at 197.92 which is heading out the door to a P4 soon by all estimation.

There is already about 8 too many FBS programs in the south and prospects for more in the next few years.

At the time of the big I-AA split in 1982, there were 105 FBS schools, 31 2024 P4 and only 7 current G5 schools in the south (USM, ECU, Tulane, Rice, Memphis, UTEP and ULL). By 2005 1 P4 and 8 G5 schools had been added. Since then 16 more G5 in the south have been added.

30 net (3 CA schools dropped) schools have been added, 1 P4 and 24 G5 schools in the South.

(03-04-2024 02:38 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:01 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:37 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  EKU football attempting to elevate to FBS level simply makes no sense to me.

Building a successful I-A program in Richmond, Kentucky seems like a very difficult task.

Guess it's mostly about the company you keep, i.e. conference affiliation

It doesn't make sense for anyone to move up (these days) unless they have a strong financial position.

Liberty 49,000 undergrad, 1.71 billion endowment
Delaware 18,812 undergrad, 1.78 billion endowment
Kennesaw 40,581 undergrad, 100 million endowment.

You know these schools due to their size and/or endowment are going to stick around.

Eastern Kentucky 14,465, 78 million endowment
Central Oklahoma 12,364, 32 million endowment
Austin Peay 8,120, 45 million endowment

EKU has actually decent enrollment. Once you are below 12k or so the institution is leaning toward downsizing. It becomes difficult to justify the student fee.

EKU is up to 16k this year.