What about the MAC going to 4 pods of 4 with UMass, WKU, NDSU and MSU

1) Kent, Akron, Buffalo, UMass*
2) Ohio, Miami, Ball St, WKU*
3) Toledo, BG, NIU, Missouri St*
4) WMU, EMU, CMU, NDSU*

While Missouri St would kind of have to go into a pod with NIU, NDSU could go into either a pod with NIU or the Michigan pod since its further north.'

You would have 4 schools from the other 12 not in your division so in 3 years you can play everyone and in a 6 year cycle H/A.

IMO it makes the MAC at least as important as the MVC in basketball or the SBC in FB with all those additions.

Seriously? It doesn’t really matter how you organize the teams. Until the quality of the top teams is vastly improved, adding UMass and those other three does not move the needle at all. Still a one-bid conference, just like the new MVC has become since they lost their best programs. And that’s hoping that this year’s serious regression is not a trend. We’d just have more schools scrounging for that one bid.

(02-29-2024 09:04 PM)axeme Wrote:  Seriously? It doesn’t really matter how you organize the teams. ...

Also, pods are not a thing in basketball, so how the pods are organized has nothing to do with how you are organized for basketball.

The MAC can make moves organizationally to ease the path if enough schools decide to focus on upgrading their basketball performance, but in the end it is up to the schools to make the effort.

As far as aspiring to be a multi-bid conference, the MAC has to work to get back to the point where it is one of the last out for the NIT at-large. Then it would need to take the step up to being a regular NIT at-large conference. And then if it could get to that point, it would be in a position to make a push to having the occasional at-large bid to the Big Dance itself.

Anyone who thinks that there are magic organizational gimmicks or magic invites to schools who will lift the MAC through all three steps in one leap is just engaged in wishful thinking. It is a long hard slog that take commitment and a bit of luck, and at the moment the MAC is sliding in the wrong direction.

(02-29-2024 09:04 PM)axeme Wrote:  Seriously? It doesn’t really matter how you organize the teams. Until the quality of the top teams is vastly improved, adding UMass and those other three does not move the needle at all. Still a one-bid conference, just like the new MVC has become since they lost their best programs. And that’s hoping that this year’s serious regression is not a trend. We’d just have more schools scrounging for that one bid.

A larger conference has more TV inventory.

A MAC with UMass and a few others has more upside. That isn't necessarily measured in multi-bids but higher tournament seeds. Better TV exposure.

MAC is committed now to grow to 14 possibly 16 teams so whether its 14, 15 or 16 splitting the one bid isn't going to make too much of a difference.

NDSU more of good FB add. Missouri St more for the basketball and baseball. ISU possibly for travel. The sum of the parts equals a greater whole.

(03-01-2024 01:56 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 09:04 PM)axeme Wrote:  Seriously? It doesn’t really matter how you organize the teams. Until the quality of the top teams is vastly improved, adding UMass and those other three does not move the needle at all. Still a one-bid conference, just like the new MVC has become since they lost their best programs. And that’s hoping that this year’s serious regression is not a trend. We’d just have more schools scrounging for that one bid.

A larger conference has more TV inventory.

A MAC with UMass and a few others has more upside. That isn't necessarily measured in multi-bids but higher tournament seeds. Better TV exposure.

MAC is committed now to grow to 14 possibly 16 teams so whether its 14, 15 or 16 splitting the one bid isn't going to make too much of a difference.

NDSU more of good FB add. Missouri St more for the basketball and baseball. ISU possibly for travel. The sum of the parts equals a greater whole.

A greater hole could be the sum of too many parts, too. UMass is going to cause some budget stretching for Oly sports travel, which needs to settle out for a while before the MAC does more of the far flung thing. For football somebody is going there the four times they aren't coming wherever here is. But "all-sports" means all sports, for most of what Umass offers. Look at the MAC and UMass statements ... that's a whole lotta teams going a whole lotta places.

If it weren't for their football, would anyone know what an NDSU is? And just how much are they joined at the hip with other Dakota schools. If they did leave it would be both the MVFC and Summit League, both of which SDSU (those other guys) seem to have taken aholt. Sioux Falls anyone? Missouri State was good, but I've just read a recent Missouri-based three-part series about them, and even they have a whole lot of doubts about how/when they're going to right the ship. Illinois State is growing and looks good, but some of my NIU brethren (and maybe sisteren) don't abide them and their trolls. Maybe it's jealousy. In the midst of the 2021-22 realignment binge, their AD was one of the few officials of anything who actually said they were happy where they were at. IDK now.

Footnote: those three together would cost $15 million in new FCS>FBS fees to the NCAA. If the next MAC-ESPN contract can get that much of a boost, screw anybody else but the 13.

The key to G5 conference viability, and survival, in light of P5 super conference growth and NIL, is football strength and diversification.

(03-01-2024 06:52 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  A greater hole could be the sum of too many parts, too.

Precisely. Just because a whole can be greater than the sum of its parts doesn't mean that applied to every grab bag of parts someone throws together in a fit of wishful thinking.

The MAC is not looking to an expansion to 16. "I can't make up my mind which of these are the best adds, they each have strengths and weaknesses, so I am just going to say add all three" is not going to be the MAC Presidents' approach.

Quote: UMass is going to cause some budget stretching for Oly sports travel, which needs to settle out for a while before the MAC does more of the far flung thing. For football somebody is going there the four times they aren't coming wherever here is. But "all-sports" means all sports, for most of what Umass offers. Look at the MAC and UMass statements ... that's a whole lotta teams going a whole lotta places.

This is an issue. For sports that allow for "travel partner" scheduling, you can bus to Buffalo, bus to UMass, and fly home, or fly to UMass, bus to Buffalo, and bus home ... but not all sports allow travel partner scheduling, and single-flight style travel partner scheduling still sees you in hotel rooms in between the two games.

So a #14 add which would be a bus trip for most MAC schools would be the ideal for an all-sports add. After any of those that are available would come any FB-only adds.

Quote: If it weren't for their football, would anyone know what an NDSU is? And just how much are they joined at the hip with other Dakota schools. If they did leave it would be both the MVFC and Summit League, both of which SDSU (those other guys) seem to have taken aholt. Sioux Falls anyone?

It's a stretch to even do "single flight" travel partner scheduling for NIU and NDSU, they are over 9hrs apart on google maps drive time, and the ideal #14 all-sports add is a school like WKU that a majority of schools can get their Olympic sports teams to by bus.

If they want to move up badly enough to join FB-only, eliminating the Olympic sport travel cost issue, they could be added to the list, though after an appropriate all-sports add.

Quote: Missouri State was good, but I've just read a recent Missouri-based three-part series about them, and even they have a whole lot of doubts about how/when they're going to right the ship.

Not as extreme as NDSU, but they are also a bit of a stretch for travel ... I reckon they may be a LONG bus ride away from NIU, Ball State and Miami and a flight for pretty much everyone else.

Quote: Illinois State is growing and looks good, but some of my NIU brethren (and maybe sisteren) don't abide them and their trolls. Maybe it's jealousy. In the midst of the 2021-22 realignment binge, their AD was one of the few officials of anything who actually said they were happy where they were at. IDK now.

The last thing that the MAC Presidents will be concerned about is whether some of the toxic supporters that are attracted to any program with a reasonable number of supporters populate some message boards also populated by fans of one or more existing MAC program.

More of an issue is that this move catches ISU in transition, with an interim President and an interim AD. If the MAC moved with at least a Plan B in place for the #14 add (since the best option, WKU, is not a lock to move), then that Plan B was not ISU.

Quote: Footnote: those three together would cost $15 million in new FCS>FBS fees to the NCAA. If the next MAC-ESPN contract can get that much of a boost, screw anybody else but the 13.

The MAC's preference would be zero FCS call-ups, so three FCS call-ups to get to 16 -- where they have no reason to go -- is not going to happen.

(03-01-2024 07:49 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 06:52 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  A greater hole could be the sum of too many parts, too.

Precisely. Just because a whole can be greater than the sum of its parts doesn't mean that applied to every grab bag of parts someone throws together in a fit of wishful thinking.

The MAC is not looking to an expansion to 16. "I can't make up my mind which of these are the best adds, they each have strengths and weaknesses, so I am just going to say add all three" is not going to be the MAC Presidents' approach.

Quote: UMass is going to cause some budget stretching for Oly sports travel, which needs to settle out for a while before the MAC does more of the far flung thing. For football somebody is going there the four times they aren't coming wherever here is. But "all-sports" means all sports, for most of what Umass offers. Look at the MAC and UMass statements ... that's a whole lotta teams going a whole lotta places.

This is an issue. For sports that allow for "travel partner" scheduling, you can bus to Buffalo, bus to UMass, and fly home, or fly to UMass, bus to Buffalo, and bus home ... but not all sports allow travel partner scheduling, and single-flight style travel partner scheduling still sees you in hotel rooms in between the two games.

So a #14 add which would be a bus trip for most MAC schools would be the ideal for an all-sports add. After any of those that are available would come any FB-only adds.

Quote: If it weren't for their football, would anyone know what an NDSU is? And just how much are they joined at the hip with other Dakota schools. If they did leave it would be both the MVFC and Summit League, both of which SDSU (those other guys) seem to have taken aholt. Sioux Falls anyone?

It's a stretch to even do "single flight" travel partner scheduling for NIU and NDSU, they are over 9hrs apart on google maps drive time, and the ideal #14 all-sports add is a school like WKU that a majority of schools can get their Olympic sports teams to by bus.

If they want to move up badly enough to join FB-only, eliminating the Olympic sport travel cost issue, they could be added to the list, though after an appropriate all-sports add.

Quote: Missouri State was good, but I've just read a recent Missouri-based three-part series about them, and even they have a whole lot of doubts about how/when they're going to right the ship.

Not as extreme as NDSU, but they are also a bit of a stretch for travel ... I reckon they may be a LONG bus ride away from NIU, Ball State and Miami and a flight for pretty much everyone else.

Quote: Illinois State is growing and looks good, but some of my NIU brethren (and maybe sisteren) don't abide them and their trolls. Maybe it's jealousy. In the midst of the 2021-22 realignment binge, their AD was one of the few officials of anything who actually said they were happy where they were at. IDK now.

The last thing that the MAC Presidents will be concerned about is whether some of the toxic supporters that are attracted to any program with a reasonable number of supporters populate some message boards also populated by fans of one or more existing MAC program.

More of an issue is that this move catches ISU in transition, with an interim President and an interim AD. If the MAC moved with at least a Plan B in place for the #14 add (since the best option, WKU, is not a lock to move), then that Plan B was not ISU.

Quote: Footnote: those three together would cost $15 million in new FCS>FBS fees to the NCAA. If the next MAC-ESPN contract can get that much of a boost, screw anybody else but the 13.

The MAC's preference would be zero FCS call-ups, so three FCS call-ups to get to 16 -- where they have no reason to go -- is not going to happen.

The MAC presidents might be better off if they started listening to their fans for once. At least, the fans that are left.