Let's suppose the Big 10 is actually serious about them. Could the SEC thrive without having to utilize two slots for a duplicated South Carolina market and a duplicated Panhandle market in Florida? And if so, why not bypass them, if a cold shoulder keeps the Big 10 from getting the impact, they hope for in acquiring them.

For starters, why not take Virginia and Virginia Tech, North Carolina and N.C. State as we would have had to do with Clemson and FSU. Only now we take Miami and South Florida and have all 3 AAU schools in Florida. With SEC branding and AAU status and with already 6,000 more undergrads than FSU, USF could be the second key Florida school within 10 years. That's six. Now our options can shift to Kansas and Colorado or Kansas and Duke. What does Duke do for the SEC that UNC and NC State don't do? They make SEC basketball must see TV in New England. What does Colorado do? They put the SEC into the MWTZ for an additional broadcast window.

Some will ask why add Miami and South Florida, why not just one? By taking both the Big 10 will never be able to approach having a simple majority of the fans in the state

The 4 North Carolina and Virginia schools lock down markets totaling 20 million plus.
Miami and South Florida lock down all regions in Florida when added to the Gators.
Kansas puts the SEC product into the viewership of Illinois, Iowa, and Nebraska via Kansas.

If we do that, how do you blunt the impact that FSU and Clemson would have in the Big 10? It's simple, the SEC simply refuses to play them. Florida picks up Miami and South Florida as annual games against in state rivals. South Carolina renews with N.C. State and has Georgia and Tennessee. This keeps them from being a perceptual risk to the Deep South, discourages recruiting to the schools, and limits the impact of the visiting Big 10 schools to just their single game.

The 8 potential additions which included Clemson and FSU for the SEC only allowed the SEC to pick up North Carolina, Virginia, and Kansas as AAU schools with Duke and Colorado being a 4th.

By bypassing Clemson and FSU, the SEC can add potentially 6 AAU schools.

Just some considerations to play with.

(01-25-2024 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's suppose the Big 10 is actually serious about them. Could the SEC thrive without having to utilize two slots for a duplicated South Carolina market and a duplicated Panhandle market in Florida? And if so, why not bypass them, if a cold shoulder keeps the Big 10 from getting the impact, they hope for in acquiring them.

For starters, why not take Virginia and Virginia Tech, North Carolina and N.C. State as we would have had to do with Clemson and FSU. Only now we take Miami and South Florida and have all 3 AAU schools in Florida. With SEC branding and AAU status and with already 6,000 more undergrads than FSU, USF could be the second key Florida school within 10 years. That's six. Now our options can shift to Kansas and Colorado or Kansas and Duke. What does Duke do for the SEC that UNC and NC State don't do? They make SEC basketball must see TV in New England. What does Colorado do? They put the SEC into the MWTZ for an additional broadcast window.

Some will ask why add Miami and South Florida, why not just one? By taking both the Big 10 will never be able to approach having a simple majority of the fans in the state

The 4 North Carolina and Virginia schools lock down markets totaling 20 million plus.
Miami and South Florida lock down all regions in Florida when added to the Gators.
Kansas puts the SEC product into the viewership of Illinois, Iowa, and Nebraska via Kansas.

If we do that, how do you blunt the impact that FSU and Clemson would have in the Big 10? It's simple, the SEC simply refuses to play them. Florida picks up Miami and South Florida as annual games against in state rivals. South Carolina renews with N.C. State and has Georgia and Tennessee. This keeps them from being a perceptual risk to the Deep South, discourages recruiting to the schools, and limits the impact of the visiting Big 10 schools to just their single game.

The 8 potential additions which included Clemson and FSU for the SEC only allowed the SEC to pick up North Carolina, Virginia, and Kansas as AAU schools with Duke and Colorado being a 4th.

By bypassing Clemson and FSU, the SEC can add potentially 6 AAU schools.

Just some considerations to play with.

I have doubts Clemson & FSU go to the BIG. If Sankey & company pass on the two, then some explaining is in order. The BIG certainly needs to make them offer if they seriously want to penetrate the southeast in a formidable way. Do what’s reasonably necessary to land in the P2. The ACC is now toxic, particularly for FSU.

————————
As to value in South Carolina, keep an eye on the Carolina Gamecocks basketball. The women are undefeated and remain ranked #1. The men are currently 17-3, and recently defeated Kentucky and Missouri. An upcoming game with #5 Tennessee is Tuesday.

(01-28-2024 10:30 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(01-25-2024 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's suppose the Big 10 is actually serious about them. Could the SEC thrive without having to utilize two slots for a duplicated South Carolina market and a duplicated Panhandle market in Florida? And if so, why not bypass them, if a cold shoulder keeps the Big 10 from getting the impact, they hope for in acquiring them.

For starters, why not take Virginia and Virginia Tech, North Carolina and N.C. State as we would have had to do with Clemson and FSU. Only now we take Miami and South Florida and have all 3 AAU schools in Florida. With SEC branding and AAU status and with already 6,000 more undergrads than FSU, USF could be the second key Florida school within 10 years. That's six. Now our options can shift to Kansas and Colorado or Kansas and Duke. What does Duke do for the SEC that UNC and NC State don't do? They make SEC basketball must see TV in New England. What does Colorado do? They put the SEC into the MWTZ for an additional broadcast window.

Some will ask why add Miami and South Florida, why not just one? By taking both the Big 10 will never be able to approach having a simple majority of the fans in the state

The 4 North Carolina and Virginia schools lock down markets totaling 20 million plus.
Miami and South Florida lock down all regions in Florida when added to the Gators.
Kansas puts the SEC product into the viewership of Illinois, Iowa, and Nebraska via Kansas.

If we do that, how do you blunt the impact that FSU and Clemson would have in the Big 10? It's simple, the SEC simply refuses to play them. Florida picks up Miami and South Florida as annual games against in state rivals. South Carolina renews with N.C. State and has Georgia and Tennessee. This keeps them from being a perceptual risk to the Deep South, discourages recruiting to the schools, and limits the impact of the visiting Big 10 schools to just their single game.

The 8 potential additions which included Clemson and FSU for the SEC only allowed the SEC to pick up North Carolina, Virginia, and Kansas as AAU schools with Duke and Colorado being a 4th.

By bypassing Clemson and FSU, the SEC can add potentially 6 AAU schools.

Just some considerations to play with.

I have doubts Clemson & FSU go to the BIG. If Sankey & company pass on the two, then some explaining is in order. The BIG certainly needs to make them offer if they seriously want to penetrate the southeast in a formidable way. Do what’s reasonably necessary to land in the P2. The ACC is now toxic, particularly for FSU.

————————
As to value in South Carolina, keep an eye on the Carolina Gamecocks basketball. The women are undefeated and remain ranked #1. The men are currently 17-3, and recently defeated Kentucky and Missouri. An upcoming game with #5 Tennessee is Tuesday.

It's not my preference to let them go O.F., but if they did the best defense for the SEC would be cultural shunning of the schools. No games scheduled in any sports with the SEC, or ACC. The Big 10 would have them. Would have to pay them. But they would derive no benefit from it. Florida would play Miami to end the season, South Carolina would play N.C. State. It's harsh, but extremely effective.

Furthermore, I meant every word I said about USF. I absolutely believe with an SEC branding they would be the #2 school in that state within a decade. When Boomers are statistically gone the histories of all schools are erased and have to be rebuilt in the minds of the majority of the public. And that should be a sobering fact of life for all Universities.

I think if the B1G took FSU and Clemson that would look like a power move for the conference by adding the two biggest football brands there. FSU seems to be the pick, while Clemson’s non-AAU status could be a deterrent as other ACC members could be coveted more.

Last year, a list of ACC targets the SEC is supposedly after surfaced: FSU, Clemson, UNC and Virginia. Now if FSU chooses the B1G, then Clemson is the next likely available school. If the Virginia schools are tied to the hip like the North Carolina schools are too, I’m not sure ESPN would want to pay prorata for four SEC additions. If that’s the case, it’ll likely keep the ACC together a little longer and force the SEC to round off with an auxiliary option.

If the SEC got aggressive and doubled down in VA and NC, I would guess Clemson would also be added, and then Duke becomes a great option to round out the numbers. I would be fine with Kansas too.

(01-29-2024 02:11 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  I think if the B1G took FSU and Clemson that would look like a power move for the conference by adding the two biggest football brands there. FSU seems to be the pick, while Clemson’s non-AAU status could be a deterrent as other ACC members could be coveted more.

Last year, a list of ACC targets the SEC is supposedly after surfaced: FSU, Clemson, UNC and Virginia. Now if FSU chooses the B1G, then Clemson is the next likely available school. If the Virginia schools are tied to the hip like the North Carolina schools are too, I’m not sure ESPN would want to pay prorata for four SEC additions. If that’s the case, it’ll likely keep the ACC together a little longer and force the SEC to round off with an auxiliary option.

If the SEC got aggressive and doubled down in VA and NC, I would guess Clemson would also be added, and then Duke becomes a great option to round out the numbers. I would be fine with Kansas too.

I'm not sold on Clemson and FSU to the Big 10 because profile, location, and academic status matters. I think they hare being rushed and talked about to get the SEC to spend two of its slots on the pair making harder to lure UNC by taking UNC.

I say well call their bluff, take UNC and N.C. State, Clemson, and a second Florida school which we need whether it is Miami or South Florida. In 10 years South Florida will be the #2 public school in the state. They have 6000 more students and are already AAU and when in the Big East averaged over 60,000 in attendance though it was at a pro stadium. If we don't take them the Big 10 will be back after them. Let Kanas round it out.

If the Big 10 does take FSU and we land either USF or Miami we still come out ahead in Florida.

Pundits say they are stopping at 20. How can the Big 10 take FSU and another school like maybe Virginia or Stanford and still land Notre Dame without going past 20? If they don't take FSU well the Noles have screwed themselves. I still wouldn't rule out UNC and Duke, which if you added Kansas to it would be a monster payoff for hoops and would help pad some football records a tad. The Miami fits right in for #4.

Stuff to think about. I am suspicious that ESPN and FOX have already worked this out and we are just playing out a drama to make it look otherwise. We'll see.

The SEC would be fine without Clemson and Florida St. However, I doubt the SEC/ESPN want Florida St, the #2 in a state with more than 20M people, to join the B1G/FOX. Clemson? Meh. The #2 in a state with just over 5M people. The more time lapses from Clemson's national titles under Dabo, the less "valuable" they are to a TV network. TV execs want eyeballs and schools that win, reside in high population states, or have large amounts of alumni/students do that. Clemson not winning in the State of South Carolina with less than half the alumni of Florida St doesn't bode well for the Tigers.

SEC to 20 should be Florida St, Kansas, North Carolina, and Virginia. Florida St does the job in being the best remaining add in the region. The other 3 bring new states with AAU flagship schools and a great amount of basketball prowess. I think the B1G/FOX choose to keep up to 20 with Duke and Miami. The XII gets to 20 with Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, North Carolina St, and Virginia Tech. The Big East, at 11, grows to 16 with Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Wake Forest. California, Oregon St, Stanford, and Washington St join the Big West as full members with football in the ACC or PAC which survives on a waiver to be football-only. They join with the 4 non-Irish Big East additions plus Connecticut. SMU rejoins the AAC as #15.

I'm not sure the Big 10 goes after Clemson, but I'll play it out with Clemson and without.

Either way you make the call to Notre Dame; let's say they stay independent.

If the Big 10 takes FSU and Clemson, the SEC can respond with: UNC, Miami, UVA and Kansas. 4 AAU schools, new markets in the Virginia/North Carolina area, doubling down in Florida, and all four schools have a final four run since 2019.

If the Big 10 does not take Clemson, in a four team (to 20) scenario, I wonder if we don't either. At 24 there is definitely room for Clemson, but with four picks, I'm not sure.
If it is FSU + Miami (ala UCLA+USC), we take UNC, UVA, Kansas and one of USF/Duke/NC State.

If it is FSU + UNC, we take Miami, UVA, Kansas, and and probably take NC State.

If it is FSU + UVA, we take Miami, Kansas, UNC, and maybe V Tech, or double down in North Carolina with NC State anyway.

Let’s remember that the SEC doesn’t need anyone and the B1G isn’t welcoming in everyone. I think a Virginia does more for the conference profile than a Clemson and a North Carolina does more than a Florida St. You expand your footprint with AAU flagships. Take on Miami and Duke to round out 20 with 2 private AAU schools.

(02-20-2024 01:59 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Let’s remember that the SEC doesn’t need anyone and the B1G isn’t welcoming in everyone. I think a Virginia does more for the conference profile than a Clemson and a North Carolina does more than a Florida St. You expand your footprint with AAU flagships. Take on Miami and Duke to round out 20 with 2 private AAU schools.

I wouldn’t pass on the two biggest TV draws in the ACC. If the B1G makes a better offer, then so be it.

For some reason I think Miami might have trouble getting the votes as most SEC schools remember their rampant cheating by their boosters in the past—but that’s my opinion. I still think they are a secondary option for the Big Ten.

JR keeps mentioning expansion with Colorado . If I’m adding more B12 schools, I would look at Kansas and Nebraska.

(02-21-2024 08:16 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 01:59 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Let’s remember that the SEC doesn’t need anyone and the B1G isn’t welcoming in everyone. I think a Virginia does more for the conference profile than a Clemson and a North Carolina does more than a Florida St. You expand your footprint with AAU flagships. Take on Miami and Duke to round out 20 with 2 private AAU schools.

I wouldn’t pass on the two biggest TV draws in the ACC. If the B1G makes a better offer, then so be it.

For some reason I think Miami might have trouble getting the votes as most SEC schools remember their rampant cheating by their boosters in the past—but that’s my opinion. I still think they are a secondary option for the Big Ten.

JR keeps mentioning expansion with Colorado . If I’m adding more B12 schools, I would look at Kansas and Nebraska.

I tossed Colorado out for discussion. I haven't talked about them in a while. Nebraska would be intriguing but nobody is leaving the Big 10 or SEC. I'm certainly not against taking FSU and Clemson, just thought since they were being debated as Big 10 candidates we should look at alternatives.

I seriously doubt the Big 10 would take Clemson. FSU? Maybe, but Miami fits their profile better and is a helluva lot easier to get to if you live up North.

If pressed on 4 to take if I had to make the decision today: FSU, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia Tech. If Vandy opts out (doubtful but possible) then Kansas.

Let's assume FSU heads to the Big 10.

Look what we can do without them!

Clemson, Duke, Miami, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia, Viginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, *South Florida

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

*If Vandy opts out we take South Florida.

Don't know what you think but these are 3 really solid divisions. You play 7 division games, 2 games a year from each other division, and in 4 years you've played everyone. You have 1 OOC game which would be with the Big 10.

Adding two NC and VA schools would actually be a better move than doubling down on Florida and South Carolina. It would also satisfy the UNC BOT's and possibly the VA BOT's as well.

(02-25-2024 05:09 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Adding two NC and VA schools would actually be a better move than doubling down on Florida and South Carolina. It would also satisfy the UNC BOT's and possibly the VA BOT's as well.

Nobody is leaving Florida schools out of the equation. That is the state FOX is after and ESPN will defend to the hilt, which is why FSU is in a lawsuit and FOX is flirting with tortuous interference. The SEC's #1 internal issue is the limited number of games its members can play in Florida since we only have 1 school. It would not be wasted money or effort to triple down in Florida. ESPN will pay for it and the SEC can exploit it and solve their internal scheduling issue. Taking Clemson isolates FSU and leaves them nothing but a boatload of Northern school to play. That move effectively neuters FSU's hopes and lets them dwindle in the South where they have self-limited their own exposure.

This good old fashioned Southern Hardball and it will be played that way.

(02-25-2024 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 05:09 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Adding two NC and VA schools would actually be a better move than doubling down on Florida and South Carolina. It would also satisfy the UNC BOT's and possibly the VA BOT's as well.

Nobody is leaving Florida schools out of the equation. That is the state FOX is after and ESPN will defend to the hilt, which is why FSU is in a lawsuit and FOX is flirting with tortuous interference. The SEC's #1 internal issue is the limited number of games its members can play in Florida since we only have 1 school. It would not be wasted money or effort to triple down in Florida. ESPN will pay for it and the SEC can exploit it and solve their internal scheduling issue. Taking Clemson isolates FSU and leaves them nothing but a boatload of Northern school to play. That move effectively neuters FSU's hopes and lets them dwindle in the South where they have self-limited their own exposure.

This good old fashioned Southern Hardball and it will be played that way.

It's clear the SEC will probably end up taking Clemson and Florida State. However, I can't see them taking Miami (FL). That spot would be better reserved for a NC/VA combo.

(02-25-2024 07:51 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 05:09 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Adding two NC and VA schools would actually be a better move than doubling down on Florida and South Carolina. It would also satisfy the UNC BOT's and possibly the VA BOT's as well.

Nobody is leaving Florida schools out of the equation. That is the state FOX is after and ESPN will defend to the hilt, which is why FSU is in a lawsuit and FOX is flirting with tortuous interference. The SEC's #1 internal issue is the limited number of games its members can play in Florida since we only have 1 school. It would not be wasted money or effort to triple down in Florida. ESPN will pay for it and the SEC can exploit it and solve their internal scheduling issue. Taking Clemson isolates FSU and leaves them nothing but a boatload of Northern school to play. That move effectively neuters FSU's hopes and lets them dwindle in the South where they have self-limited their own exposure.

This good old fashioned Southern Hardball and it will be played that way.

It's clear the SEC will probably end up taking Clemson and Florida State. However, I can't see them taking Miami (FL). That spot would be better reserved for a NC/VA combo.

You didn't read and comprehend the last post I made previous to my response. UNC and UVa along with Duke, N.C. State and Virginia Tech would be in along with Clemson and Miami. No FSU.

(02-25-2024 07:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 07:51 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 05:09 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Adding two NC and VA schools would actually be a better move than doubling down on Florida and South Carolina. It would also satisfy the UNC BOT's and possibly the VA BOT's as well.

Nobody is leaving Florida schools out of the equation. That is the state FOX is after and ESPN will defend to the hilt, which is why FSU is in a lawsuit and FOX is flirting with tortuous interference. The SEC's #1 internal issue is the limited number of games its members can play in Florida since we only have 1 school. It would not be wasted money or effort to triple down in Florida. ESPN will pay for it and the SEC can exploit it and solve their internal scheduling issue. Taking Clemson isolates FSU and leaves them nothing but a boatload of Northern school to play. That move effectively neuters FSU's hopes and lets them dwindle in the South where they have self-limited their own exposure.

This good old fashioned Southern Hardball and it will be played that way.

It's clear the SEC will probably end up taking Clemson and Florida State. However, I can't see them taking Miami (FL). That spot would be better reserved for a NC/VA combo.

You didn't read and comprehend the last post I made previous to my response. UNC and UVa along with Duke, N.C. State and Virginia Tech would be in along with Clemson and Miami. No FSU.

I didn't see the part about the SEC taking just Clemson and not Florida State, but how would replacing Florida State with Miami (FL) be a good thing? Florida would like to maintain their dominance as the only school from FL in the SEC, but if push came to shove, they would be ok with Florida State instead of Miami (FL).