Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-solution/

(01-05-2024 08:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-solution/

I can’t imagine many P5 will want to participate

Maybe if it’s in the spring and programs can use it as a way to get ready for next year


“Since I've been here, we knocked off Purdue, Nebraska, Georgia Tech," Frazier said. "We have a history of doing that. You're telling me that those are not going to be valued [by the committee]? Why the hell would I play them if I have an inside track playing Little Sisters of the Poor?"


For the same reason as before- to keep your AD budget afloat

(01-05-2024 08:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-solution/

Isn't this the FCS playoffs?

(01-05-2024 08:23 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 08:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-solution/

Isn't this the FCS playoffs?

It seems so, kind of a hybrid FCS for the middle tier between the CFP and FCS playoffs, but with some P2/3/4 teams involved in the "bigger" bowls outside the CFP bowls and championship.

Regardless, with some "power" conference teams involved, if it generates any $$ or looks like it has that potential, expect it to be altered like the recent MBB NIT changes to benefit the top tier.

(For reference to NIT: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-12-spots/ )

Other alternatives exist, like the one proposed by Fighting Muskie atop "The Big Muskie playoff—a large, 32 team playoff that might actually work" thread down below.

Northern Illinois has been pitching this for years

There's no TV money in it

(01-05-2024 10:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Northern Illinois has been pitching this for years

There's no TV money in it

No. This is a Frazier thing, not an NIU thing. The university never took a position, officially, and hasn't this time. BTW, last time around most other conference officials who did comment said no way. So did the majority of posters on the NIU fan board, as I recall.

I suppose I could post a few of Frazier's other magnanimous plans over the years that have ... ahem ... turned out less than realistic. But I just don't feel like it.

Honestly, if we’re going to have a 12-team playoff it won’t be long before there’s a 12-team G5 tournament. I wouldn’t be shocked if in place of the Citrus, Gator, Outback, Holiday, Alamo, and Texas Bowls we have some little 4 team tournaments featuring P4s.

(01-05-2024 08:23 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 08:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-solution/

Isn't this the FCS playoffs?

Eventually.

(01-05-2024 10:17 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Honestly, if we’re going to have a 12-team playoff it won’t be long before there’s a 12-team G5 tournament. I wouldn’t be shocked if in place of the Citrus, Gator, Outback, Holiday, Alamo, and Texas Bowls we have some little 4 team tournaments featuring P4s.

What part of "there's no TV money in it" don't you understand?

Even if you had a couple heavyweights in it people aren't gonna watch en masse because it's the consolation bracket.

And look at the bowl system. It's teetering on the edge of relevancy because of all of the opt-outs. Wanna know how many more players would opt out of a multi-team consolation tournament, especially those with NFL aspirations? The answer is way more than now.

(01-05-2024 11:31 PM)C2__ Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 10:17 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Honestly, if we’re going to have a 12-team playoff it won’t be long before there’s a 12-team G5 tournament. I wouldn’t be shocked if in place of the Citrus, Gator, Outback, Holiday, Alamo, and Texas Bowls we have some little 4 team tournaments featuring P4s.

What part of "there's no TV money in it" don't you understand?

Even if you had a couple heavyweights in it people aren't gonna watch en masse because it's the consolation bracket.

And look at the bowl system. It's teetering on the edge of relevancy because of all of the opt-outs. Wanna know how many more players would opt out of a multi-team consolation tournament, especially those with NFL aspirations? The answer is way more than now.

Right - I don’t get these proposals at least from a P4 perspective. Certainly, the G5 schools have all incentives to try to shake money from a tree wherever possible. For the P4, though, players are already opting out from non-playoff Rose Bowls and other NY6 bowls with high profile opponents even though they often get 9-10 million-plus viewers and pay the participating conferences upwards for $50 million each, which make them even more lucrative to the P4 than the CFP itself. (Those bowl contracts are what have determined who the P4/P5 have been in the CFP era and the power conferences in the BCS era in the first place.)

If players are opting out of those games with that much money and viewership involved, they’re not playing multiple consolation games against G5 teams. I can tell you unequivocally that the Big Ten and SEC would rather keep playing each other in Citrus Bowl-type games than deal with this type of consolation tournament. The G5 might be a different story because they have fewer mechanisms to make revenue. It’s a fantasy that the Big Ten and SEC are going to coordinate and share money on any of this, and without them involved, there’s not going to be money to simply get these games a halfway decent TV deal that’s a fraction of the current non-playoff NY6 bowls, much less enough to pay out a bunch of appearance fee money to players.

The bowls are teetering on the edge of obsolescence. They’ll be low effort affairs on the part of the players, if the players come at all.

About the only way to have a meaningful post season that teams will be motivated to perform would be to try and squeeze additional playoff rounds in the first 2 weeks of December during CCG and Army/Navy week.

(01-05-2024 09:13 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 08:23 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 08:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports reports:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-solution/

Isn't this the FCS playoffs?

It seems so, kind of a hybrid FCS for the middle tier between the CFP and FCS playoffs, but with some P2/3/4 teams involved in the "bigger" bowls outside the CFP bowls and championship.

Regardless, with some "power" conference teams involved, if it generates any $$ or looks like it has that potential, expect it to be altered like the recent MBB NIT changes to benefit the top tier.

(For reference to NIT: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-12-spots/ )

Other alternatives exist, like the one proposed by Fighting Muskie atop "The Big Muskie playoff—a large, 32 team playoff that might actually work" thread down below.

The men's NIT was changed to benefit the tournament itself in an effort to boost ratings. They don't have a preference of 14-14 Florida over 21-11 Tulsa, but the people watching on TV do.

#5 Big Ten and #5 SEC would rather play in Citrus Bowl than a consolation bracket vs G5 teams. Players will opt out either way.

I’m not even sure there is appetite for a single “extra” bowl game for the winners of Top 4 G5 bowls. Play it January 3rd?

(01-05-2024 10:11 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(01-05-2024 10:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Northern Illinois has been pitching this for years

There's no TV money in it

No. This is a Frazier thing, not an NIU thing. The university never took a position, officially, and hasn't this time. BTW, last time around most other conference officials who did comment said no way. So did the majority of posters on the NIU fan board, as I recall.

I suppose I could post a few of Frazier's other magnanimous plans over the years that have ... ahem ... turned out less than realistic. But I just don't feel like it.

Big 10 and SEC wouldn't participate. They have good bowl deals. Can't see the ACC or Big 12 either. So it would just be a G5. Don't see it being worth much more than their existing bowl deals.

Its obvious that more money can be made with "bowl season" than the present set up.

1) Including some of the traditional major games like the Citrus Bowl as tune ups in the CFP TV package would make them worth more than standalone.

2) A 7-5 bowl elgibility rule would save everyone money because it elimitates the most marginal of bowl games allowing for those that are still there to be better attended/more profitable.

3) With the consolidation of conferences it would make sense to assign the conferences bowl opponent bracket style. The idea is the P4 would have the higher seeds in the bracket and would largely play themselves in bowls, with the exception of a few well qualified G5s (10+ wins) that might get a P4 bowl due to performance.

The playoff is Top 12 regardless of conference so I could perfectly see where it makes sense to have the next 24 regardless of conference playing each other in bowl games. That to me is the NIT concept. Have them included with in the 1.5 billion dollar CFP package to push the valuation up a couple 100 million dollars more.

Then have an open tier of bowls after that if you want on the 7-5/6-6 rule which is more profitable than 6-5/5-7 cut line in place currently.

Teams don't care about the NIT, so why would they care about a football version? I'm pretty sure that KU would turn down an NIT bid.

(01-06-2024 01:07 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Its obvious that more money can be made with "bowl season" than the present set up.

It's possiblem but it;'s not at all "obvious"

Quote:1) Including some of the traditional major games like the Citrus Bowl as tune ups in the CFP TV package would make them worth more than standalone.

It's not clear what that means. Playoff teams playing body-bag games as a tuneup?

Quote:2) A 7-5 bowl elgibility rule would save everyone money because it elimitates the most marginal of bowl games allowing for those that are still there to be better attended/more profitable.

The existence of the 6-6 vs 6-6 bowls doesn't stop anybody from going to the mid-range bowls. they're in different cities, different schools are playing.

Looking at the schedule for this year, if you killed the Charlotte NC "Famous Toastery Bowl" between Western Kentucky and Old Dominion, do you really think that helps the Duke's Mayo Bowl in Charlotte? I doubt it.
The WKU and ODU fans aren't going to the Dukes Mayo Bowl.
Do you think there are 1000 people in Charlotte who went to the Toastery Bowl, but not the Dukes MAyo Bowl, and if they couldn't go to the Toastery Bowl they'd have bought Mayo Bowl tickets?

Quote:3) With the consolidation of conferences it would make sense to assign the conferences bowl opponent bracket style. The idea is the P4 would have the higher seeds in the bracket and would largely play themselves in bowls, with the exception of a few well qualified G5s (10+ wins) that might get a P4 bowl due to performance.

Quote:The playoff is Top 12 regardless of conference so I could perfectly see where it makes sense to have the next 24 regardless of conference playing each other in bowl games. That to me is the NIT concept. Have them included with in the 1.5 billion dollar CFP package to push the valuation up a couple 100 million dollars more.

.............a football NIT isn't going to be worth 100 million dollars. The current bowl system has economic value to ESPN because it's football that they can plug into programming windows in December. If your bowl draws the short straw and gets a 2:30 Tuesday start, it doesn't really matter because it's the last game of the season.

You can't play a football tournament quarterfinal on a 2:30 on Tuesday in December and ask them to play again on Saturday, or wait until the Saturday after that, there isn't enough room on the calendar.

Quote:Then have an open tier of bowls after that if you want on the 7-5/6-6 rule which is more profitable than 6-5/5-7 cut line in place currently.

None of this adds up. You jsut assume you can increase the value of some bowls by eliminating others, and you don't justify that assumption

Once the Super Bowl is over, most people need a break from football regardless if it’s collegiate or professional.

I’m sure it’s one of the many reasons tv networks don’t see any value in it.

(01-06-2024 10:39 AM)Crayton Wrote:  #5 Big Ten and #5 SEC would rather play in Citrus Bowl than a consolation bracket vs G5 teams.

This.

(01-06-2024 02:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 01:07 PM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Its obvious that more money can be made with "bowl season" than the present set up.

It's possiblem but it;'s not at all "obvious"

Quote:1) Including some of the traditional major games like the Citrus Bowl as tune ups in the CFP TV package would make them worth more than standalone.

It's not clear what that means. Playoff teams playing body-bag games as a tuneup?

Quote:2) A 7-5 bowl elgibility rule would save everyone money because it elimitates the most marginal of bowl games allowing for those that are still there to be better attended/more profitable.

The existence of the 6-6 vs 6-6 bowls doesn't stop anybody from going to the mid-range bowls. they're in different cities, different schools are playing.

Looking at the schedule for this year, if you killed the Charlotte NC "Famous Toastery Bowl" between Western Kentucky and Old Dominion, do you really think that helps the Duke's Mayo Bowl in Charlotte? I doubt it.
The WKU and ODU fans aren't going to the Dukes Mayo Bowl.
Do you think there are 1000 people in Charlotte who went to the Toastery Bowl, but not the Dukes MAyo Bowl, and if they couldn't go to the Toastery Bowl they'd have bought Mayo Bowl tickets?

Quote:3) With the consolidation of conferences it would make sense to assign the conferences bowl opponent bracket style. The idea is the P4 would have the higher seeds in the bracket and would largely play themselves in bowls, with the exception of a few well qualified G5s (10+ wins) that might get a P4 bowl due to performance.

Quote:The playoff is Top 12 regardless of conference so I could perfectly see where it makes sense to have the next 24 regardless of conference playing each other in bowl games. That to me is the NIT concept. Have them included with in the 1.5 billion dollar CFP package to push the valuation up a couple 100 million dollars more.

.............a football NIT isn't going to be worth 100 million dollars. The current bowl system has economic value to ESPN because it's football that they can plug into programming windows in December. If your bowl draws the short straw and gets a 2:30 Tuesday start, it doesn't really matter because it's the last game of the season.

You can't play a football tournament quarterfinal on a 2:30 on Tuesday in December and ask them to play again on Saturday, or wait until the Saturday after that, there isn't enough room on the calendar.

Quote:Then have an open tier of bowls after that if you want on the 7-5/6-6 rule which is more profitable than 6-5/5-7 cut line in place currently.

None of this adds up. You jsut assume you can increase the value of some bowls by eliminating others, and you don't justify that assumption

All of those bowls with the 6-6 teams lose money.

By raising to 7-5 that would be better financially for the conferences.