With all due respect ... and I mean with all due respect.

(11-21-2023 04:00 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 03:29 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 02:37 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 02:05 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IMHO--CUSA will Not make any deal with the pac2.

They are not that dumb.

They realize how the dominoes work.

BIG IF HERE:

Hypothetical

pac2 somehow survives on its own (with Mac, CUSA help)

pac2 gets money--decides to use it to poach the MW

MW now needs teams and decides to add UTEP and NMSU--maybe even SHSU or La TECH

RESULT: This Destabilizes and weaken CUSA further!


My opinion CUSA will not help the pac2.

Of course there is another CRAZY possibility--that the MW would have 4 or less teams left and that CUSA would just add them for a Far Western wing. VERY unlikely In my opinion (spelled out for those who say I'm acting like these are facts).

**The pac2 are "using" the MAC/CUSA scheduling talk as a Bargaining ploy with the MW.

I'm not interested in helping any conference that didn't lift a finger to help CUSA claw back from near collapse.

Well, that would be none of them. Unless you're including the fact that the other G5s could have finished the conference off if they'd have worked together and they chose not to. Which worked out pretty well for y'all.

But I don't think a scheduling deal with the 2Pac would be "helping" them as charity. It would obviously be something good for us (or that our conference collectively decided was worth it). Maybe the knock-on effects of allowing them to exist a little longer comes back to bite us and maybe it doesn't, that risk would probably need to be part of the equation.

I don't feel very strongly about playing one less CUSA game in exchange for a 2Pac game (if that's what would be on the table) as such. Washington State is probably a bigger draw than KSU, but we're also more likely to lose. Right now in our program history, I think W's mean more than ticket sales but if we did something like this, I'm fine with it. Whatever. I'm not too scared of them turning around and sending a trickle down that costs us UTEP/NMSU either. That's possible, but hey - that's what that GOR is for, right? I don't want to lose those two schools, but it would sure cut the travel (and we'd all get the GOR money).

I think if the CUSA leaders want games with OSU and WSU more than they want games with each other, it's fine for them to agree to something like this. Get as much as you can out of the deal, and then do it or don't.

But it's not about helping anyone other than us.

Why do you want to play current CUSA teams less!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Where were you when they took round-robin away from us?

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  With all due respect ... and I mean with all due respect.

Well, I mean.

The more direct response is "isn't that true of all of us?"

Everyone that keeps begging for more schools to be added is saying that implicitly. But even leaving that aside, nobody in this conference is on each other's "most interested in playing" list (aside from the two rival pairs of course).

I don't see why you can get all fired up for the chance to play UMass home-and-away over two years (instead of a current CUSA team) but you wouldn't feel that way about Oregon State or Washington State? I don't know that it would be a good move for the conference (truly), or even what I would prefer for my team. But I don't understand being really broken up for missing a couple of games with any other CUSA team (for any of us, and always with the two rival pairs excepted).

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:00 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 03:29 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 02:37 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 02:05 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IMHO--CUSA will Not make any deal with the pac2.

They are not that dumb.

They realize how the dominoes work.

BIG IF HERE:

Hypothetical

pac2 somehow survives on its own (with Mac, CUSA help)

pac2 gets money--decides to use it to poach the MW

MW now needs teams and decides to add UTEP and NMSU--maybe even SHSU or La TECH

RESULT: This Destabilizes and weaken CUSA further!


My opinion CUSA will not help the pac2.

Of course there is another CRAZY possibility--that the MW would have 4 or less teams left and that CUSA would just add them for a Far Western wing. VERY unlikely In my opinion (spelled out for those who say I'm acting like these are facts).

**The pac2 are "using" the MAC/CUSA scheduling talk as a Bargaining ploy with the MW.

I'm not interested in helping any conference that didn't lift a finger to help CUSA claw back from near collapse.

Well, that would be none of them. Unless you're including the fact that the other G5s could have finished the conference off if they'd have worked together and they chose not to. Which worked out pretty well for y'all.

But I don't think a scheduling deal with the 2Pac would be "helping" them as charity. It would obviously be something good for us (or that our conference collectively decided was worth it). Maybe the knock-on effects of allowing them to exist a little longer comes back to bite us and maybe it doesn't, that risk would probably need to be part of the equation.

I don't feel very strongly about playing one less CUSA game in exchange for a 2Pac game (if that's what would be on the table) as such. Washington State is probably a bigger draw than KSU, but we're also more likely to lose. Right now in our program history, I think W's mean more than ticket sales but if we did something like this, I'm fine with it. Whatever. I'm not too scared of them turning around and sending a trickle down that costs us UTEP/NMSU either. That's possible, but hey - that's what that GOR is for, right? I don't want to lose those two schools, but it would sure cut the travel (and we'd all get the GOR money).

I think if the CUSA leaders want games with OSU and WSU more than they want games with each other, it's fine for them to agree to something like this. Get as much as you can out of the deal, and then do it or don't.

But it's not about helping anyone other than us.

Why do you want to play current CUSA teams less!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The simplest and least likely to be taken the wrong way answer is that this isn't necessarily what I'm saying.

At least not entirely (here).

Outside of the two pairs of rivals, I don't know that CUSA teams much care about playing one another per se. Obviously we need to play because we're in a conference together, but you can't tell me you wouldn't trade any of several CUSA games for a one-and-one with UAB or Troy or USA. Or any P5 (or darn near). So the question is whether you'd rather play home and away with NMSU or WSU? I don't think UTEP would want that trade, but I don't see why any other fanbase would feel really strongly about it one way or the other.

But the reason I'm not saying that (here) is that what I am saying is that it's the exact question for the conference to ask. Would Liberty prefer a one-and-one with OSU to an 8th conference game with FIU? Would Tech prefer a one-and-one with WSU to an 8th conference game with KSU? Or however it would work out. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk "yes" but I also don't see why not?

I assure you, after the last two weeks, no one at Sammy or Jax State is in a hurry to get LaTech off the schedule.

But I trust you'll remember the bold line the next time someone mentions adding new members, and how annoying steadfast determination to ignore the point can be.

(11-21-2023 04:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  With all due respect ... and I mean with all due respect.

Well, I mean.

The more direct response is "isn't that true of all of us?"

Everyone that keeps begging for more schools to be added is saying that implicitly. But even leaving that aside, nobody in this conference is on each other's "most interested in playing" list (aside from the two rival pairs of course).

I don't see why you can get all fired up for the chance to play UMass home-and-away over two years (instead of a current CUSA team) but you wouldn't feel that way about Oregon State or Washington State? I don't know that it would be a good move for the conference (truly), or even what I would prefer for my team. But I don't understand being really broken up for missing a couple of games with any other CUSA team (for any of us, and always with the two rival pairs excepted).

You are right. There are exactly 2 CUSA teams that I really look forward to playing at this time, WKU and NMSU. WKU because they are from my home state and have had several relatives attend there. New Mexico St. because we really depended on and worked well with each other in the early Independence struggle.

I don’t dislike other CUSA teams. I am just kinda “meh” with them currently.

(11-21-2023 04:58 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:00 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 03:29 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 02:37 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  I'm not interested in helping any conference that didn't lift a finger to help CUSA claw back from near collapse.

Well, that would be none of them. Unless you're including the fact that the other G5s could have finished the conference off if they'd have worked together and they chose not to. Which worked out pretty well for y'all.

But I don't think a scheduling deal with the 2Pac would be "helping" them as charity. It would obviously be something good for us (or that our conference collectively decided was worth it). Maybe the knock-on effects of allowing them to exist a little longer comes back to bite us and maybe it doesn't, that risk would probably need to be part of the equation.

I don't feel very strongly about playing one less CUSA game in exchange for a 2Pac game (if that's what would be on the table) as such. Washington State is probably a bigger draw than KSU, but we're also more likely to lose. Right now in our program history, I think W's mean more than ticket sales but if we did something like this, I'm fine with it. Whatever. I'm not too scared of them turning around and sending a trickle down that costs us UTEP/NMSU either. That's possible, but hey - that's what that GOR is for, right? I don't want to lose those two schools, but it would sure cut the travel (and we'd all get the GOR money).

I think if the CUSA leaders want games with OSU and WSU more than they want games with each other, it's fine for them to agree to something like this. Get as much as you can out of the deal, and then do it or don't.

But it's not about helping anyone other than us.

Why do you want to play current CUSA teams less!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The simplest and least likely to be taken the wrong way answer is that this isn't necessarily what I'm saying.

At least not entirely (here).

Outside of the two pairs of rivals, I don't know that CUSA teams much care about playing one another per se. Obviously we need to play because we're in a conference together, but you can't tell me you wouldn't trade any of several CUSA games for a one-and-one with UAB or Troy or USA. Or any P5 (or darn near). So the question is whether you'd rather play home and away with NMSU or WSU? I don't think UTEP would want that trade, but I don't see why any other fanbase would feel really strongly about it one way or the other.

But the reason I'm not saying that (here) is that what I am saying is that it's the exact question for the conference to ask. Would Liberty prefer a one-and-one with OSU to an 8th conference game with FIU? Would Tech prefer a one-and-one with WSU to an 8th conference game with KSU? Or however it would work out. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk "yes" but I also don't see why not?

I assure you, after the last two weeks, no one at Sammy or Jax State is in a hurry to get LaTech off the schedule.

But I trust you'll remember the bold line the next time someone mentions adding new members, and how annoying steadfast determination to ignore the point can be.

To be totally clear - I do not want to play UMass, Delaware, SFA, Tarrleton State, EKU, Missouri State, or East New Hampshire Central Tech more than I want to play current CUSA.

I don't really know one way or the other how I'd feel about Oregon State or Washington State vs current CUSA.

I can think of many, many schools I'd rather play than any of current CUSA. But I don't see how this isn't the case for everyone. Is it not true for JSU? You're telling me that 8 out of these 9 teams is your dream conference schedule (or even just dream 2/3 of the total schedule)? Really?

And if it is (or even if you're just going to get mad at me for "not supporting CUSA enough" then it's disingenuous to keep saying "sure would love to have Delaware" or "gosh, I hope UMass joins us" or "I wonder if we could get these 4 teams to join" or whatever (and I'm not saying you do this, but it's definitely a thing).

(11-21-2023 05:04 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  With all due respect ... and I mean with all due respect.

Well, I mean.

The more direct response is "isn't that true of all of us?"

Everyone that keeps begging for more schools to be added is saying that implicitly. But even leaving that aside, nobody in this conference is on each other's "most interested in playing" list (aside from the two rival pairs of course).

I don't see why you can get all fired up for the chance to play UMass home-and-away over two years (instead of a current CUSA team) but you wouldn't feel that way about Oregon State or Washington State? I don't know that it would be a good move for the conference (truly), or even what I would prefer for my team. But I don't understand being really broken up for missing a couple of games with any other CUSA team (for any of us, and always with the two rival pairs excepted).

You are right. There are exactly 2 CUSA teams that I really look forward to playing at this time, WKU and NMSU. WKU because they are from my home state and have had several relatives attend there. New Mexico St. because we really depended on and worked well with each other in the early Independence struggle.

And this is fine. It's ok. None of us have any other options that we prefer.

It's not ideal, but we also don't have to pretend that this group of teams is anything other than what it is. It's why I honestly think I'd just as soon have 8 members (now or in the event of losing two) as 10 (with 9 being better than either). Because we could all just schedule someone (or lots of someones) OOC instead. That we'd rather play!

And I very much include Tech in this for all of y'all. I hope that's clear. I am not saying we're too good to play FIU, I'm saying that if we hadn't ended up in the same conference of necessity, there would be no interest in playing each other from either side (in general).

(11-21-2023 04:58 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:00 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 03:29 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 02:37 PM)smith79jordan Wrote:  I'm not interested in helping any conference that didn't lift a finger to help CUSA claw back from near collapse.

Well, that would be none of them. Unless you're including the fact that the other G5s could have finished the conference off if they'd have worked together and they chose not to. Which worked out pretty well for y'all.

But I don't think a scheduling deal with the 2Pac would be "helping" them as charity. It would obviously be something good for us (or that our conference collectively decided was worth it). Maybe the knock-on effects of allowing them to exist a little longer comes back to bite us and maybe it doesn't, that risk would probably need to be part of the equation.

I don't feel very strongly about playing one less CUSA game in exchange for a 2Pac game (if that's what would be on the table) as such. Washington State is probably a bigger draw than KSU, but we're also more likely to lose. Right now in our program history, I think W's mean more than ticket sales but if we did something like this, I'm fine with it. Whatever. I'm not too scared of them turning around and sending a trickle down that costs us UTEP/NMSU either. That's possible, but hey - that's what that GOR is for, right? I don't want to lose those two schools, but it would sure cut the travel (and we'd all get the GOR money).

I think if the CUSA leaders want games with OSU and WSU more than they want games with each other, it's fine for them to agree to something like this. Get as much as you can out of the deal, and then do it or don't.

But it's not about helping anyone other than us.

Why do you want to play current CUSA teams less!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The simplest and least likely to be taken the wrong way answer is that this isn't necessarily what I'm saying.

At least not entirely (here).

Outside of the two pairs of rivals, I don't know that CUSA teams much care about playing one another per se. Obviously we need to play because we're in a conference together, but you can't tell me you wouldn't trade any of several CUSA games for a one-and-one with UAB or Troy or USA. Or any P5 (or darn near). So the question is whether you'd rather play home and away with NMSU or WSU? I don't think UTEP would want that trade, but I don't see why any other fanbase would feel really strongly about it one way or the other.

But the reason I'm not saying that (here) is that what I am saying is that it's the exact question for the conference to ask. Would Liberty prefer a one-and-one with OSU to an 8th conference game with FIU? Would Tech prefer a one-and-one with WSU to an 8th conference game with KSU? Or however it would work out. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk "yes" but I also don't see why not?

I assure you, after the last two weeks, no one at Sammy or Jax State is in a hurry to get LaTech off the schedule.

But I trust you'll remember the bold line the next time someone mentions adding new members, and how annoying steadfast determination to ignore the point can be.

The other part of this is that I do feel that way. I just wasn't making that point here.


And if you want to add UMass, you feel that way, too.

(11-21-2023 05:04 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:31 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  With all due respect ... and I mean with all due respect.

Well, I mean.

The more direct response is "isn't that true of all of us?"

Everyone that keeps begging for more schools to be added is saying that implicitly. But even leaving that aside, nobody in this conference is on each other's "most interested in playing" list (aside from the two rival pairs of course).

I don't see why you can get all fired up for the chance to play UMass home-and-away over two years (instead of a current CUSA team) but you wouldn't feel that way about Oregon State or Washington State? I don't know that it would be a good move for the conference (truly), or even what I would prefer for my team. But I don't understand being really broken up for missing a couple of games with any other CUSA team (for any of us, and always with the two rival pairs excepted).

You are right. There are exactly 2 CUSA teams that I really look forward to playing at this time, WKU and NMSU. WKU because they are from my home state and have had several relatives attend there. New Mexico St. because we really depended on and worked well with each other in the early Independence struggle.

I don’t dislike other CUSA teams. I am just kinda “meh” with them currently.

I doubt your school is the only one feeling that way. I think most everyone here would rather be in the sbc, given most have rivals there. Or the MWC in the western folks’ case.

CUSA is a unique conference because none of its members want to be in it and the conference does not any of the members.

(11-21-2023 08:33 PM)R40 Wrote:  CUSA is a unique conference because none of its members want to be in it and the conference does not any of the members.

V

Nothing wrong with being the Conference of Misfit Toys. Embrace the moniker until we improve or find something better, but at least we're not the MAC.

(11-21-2023 09:19 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  

(11-21-2023 08:33 PM)R40 Wrote:  CUSA is a unique conference because none of its members want to be in it and the conference does not any of the members.

V

Nothing wrong with being the Conference of Misfit Toys. Embrace the moniker until we improve or find something better, but at least we're not the MAC.

Lol, no you're not and we're thankful for that!

You know you’re a crappy conference when CUSA fans are talking down on you…

(11-21-2023 04:21 PM)inutech Wrote:  Obviously we need to play because we're in a conference together, but you can't tell me you wouldn't trade any of several CUSA games for a one-and-one with UAB or Troy or USA.

UAB, sure. troy state, maybe. But absolutely no one from JSU (other than a few select folks from the Mobile area) cares anything about USA. We have no history with them, and USA is 5 hours away on the opposite end of the state diagonally from Jacksonville. Give us WKU and MTSU any day over the Jags.

Not trying to start an argument over this minor quibble, inutech. Just pointing it out for anyone who's listening...

As for the realignment shuffle, I don't want to lose anyone, ideally. UTEP and NMSU add a lot, despite the distance, and having both of them together create an ideal "travel partner" scenario.

It'd be nice if we could find a travel partner for FIU, but that's not likely. But for whatever it's worth, having a conference presence in south Florida is not a bad thing for recruiting.

Liberty is technically on an island as well, but they're so active online, they FEEL closer, and more importantly, because their alumni are so spread out, at least over the eastern part of the country, they almost always bring a decent crowd. And absolutely no one in CUSA should argue against what they bring competitively.

But if the 2PAC thing leads to some kind of desperation move by the remaining MWC teams, and we lose UTEP and NMSU, it hardly leaves CUSA in dire straits. Sure, we'd have to backfill with (probably) lesser FCS schools, but the upside would be a tighter footprint and more regional feel for the conference.

Of course, adding UMass would muddy that "regional feel" a bit, but we'll let that one go...

Losing UTEP and NMSU would be a total zero other than basketball. Tarleton is already as good as UTEP. Missouri State will be better long term in the conference than New Mexico State once Kill leaves. And even with Kill, they are 50-50.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-oregon-...32163.html


Latest report--Today from Ross Dellenger and Yahoo Sports---

The pac2 and MW are finalizing their 2024 Football scheduling agreement. Will be announced in a few days.

MW teams will play 7 league games + 1 vs OSU or WSU (not counted in standings).

--pac2 to Pay MW 14M fee. Pete Thamel (referenced earlier in thread) appears to be inaccurate on any MAC/CUSA/pac2 scheduling agreement taking place.

I don’t want to lose UTEPNMSU, but I hope they either both leave or both stay. If just one goes we have another island situation. I think we can all agree on this.

Nothing can be done about FIU. Nothing personal, but if the AAC needed replacements and decided to give FAU a neighbor, it would be fine with me. I get having a Florida presence is somewhat helpful, but meh.

I’m thrilled to be in a conference with Kennesaw. MTSU is fun due to geography and to a lesser extent WKU. Liberty has a “name” and could be the conference bellcow.

But if we were in the Sun Belt and we arranged a game with any of the others it really wouldn’t excite me. Maybe LaTech. But that’s the issue having such a spread out league. That’s what I like about the MAC. Nobody is really an outlier other than maybe Buffalo and they aren’t that far from Cleveland.

The Sun Belt has done a great job. The conference leaders knew they needed to sponsor football in order to survive. So they grabbed whoever they could. They slowly forced out the affiliates and non-FB members to get to the southeastern based league they are today.

(11-29-2023 07:11 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  I don’t want to lose UTEPNMSU, but I hope they either both leave or both stay. If just one goes we have another island situation. I think we can all agree on this.

Nothing can be done about FIU. Nothing personal, but if the AAC needed replacements and decided to give FAU a neighbor, it would be fine with me. I get having a Florida presence is somewhat helpful, but meh.

I’m thrilled to be in a conference with Kennesaw. MTSU is fun due to geography and to a lesser extent WKU. Liberty has a “name” and could be the conference bellcow.

But if we were in the Sun Belt and we arranged a game with any of the others it really wouldn’t excite me. Maybe LaTech. But that’s the issue having such a spread out league. That’s what I like about the MAC. Nobody is really an outlier other than maybe Buffalo and they aren’t that far from Cleveland.

The Sun Belt has done a great job. The conference leaders knew they needed to sponsor football in order to survive. So they grabbed whoever they could. They slowly forced out the affiliates and non-FB members to get to the southeastern based league they are today.

If JSU is in the SBC we only have a few schools who would thrill you. troy state, GSU and ...., playing USA, GaSo, App, JMU or whoever is about the same as La Tech, UTEP or whoever you want to name.

Being in the Sun Belt would be about the same. We’d have a rival in Atlanta (who I really hate after they almost let ODU take our bowl spot) but I don’t know if they would feel that way about us as they already have the other GSU on the schedule.

I am happy here and appreciate the opportunity CUSA gave us. Sure, they were desperate but they could have taken another FCS instead. Yes, geography is always going to be the Achilles heel for CUSA, but in a few years we’ll have played everyone several times and gotten a feel for them. We have a few reasonably close members which is a heck of a lot better than we had in the OVC and ASUN. And everyone plays football, let’s keep it that way.

(11-29-2023 08:43 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  Being in the Sun Belt would be about the same. We’d have a rival in Atlanta (who I really hate after they almost let ODU take our bowl spot) but I don’t know if they would feel that way about us as they already have the other GSU on the schedule.

I am happy here and appreciate the opportunity CUSA gave us. Sure, they were desperate but they could have taken another FCS instead. Yes, geography is always going to be the Achilles heel for CUSA, but in a few years we’ll have played everyone several times and gotten a feel for them. We have a few reasonably close members which is a heck of a lot better than we had in the OVC and ASUN. And everyone plays football, let’s keep it that way.

For whatever reason, GSU never struck the nerve with JSU folks like KSU. Guess we have more students from NW ATL than downtown?