(11-11-2023 07:48 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Absolute stinker, No question about it. But some of these comments are so laughable and outrageous that hopefully it will just expose more ‘fans’ here as being complete frauds who only want to push their own agendas and stopped being fans decades ago.

First, give credit to Harvard. They are good - an NCAA team from a few years back who can get there again this year. Number two is the type of freshman who used to end up at Georgetown or maybe Villanova. Harvard is going to love him the next four years. They wanted this game from the get-go and had the drive and intensity to win that we did not.

The men have a roster in place that could allow them to fix some flaws. Some things are fixable. Some are not. The schedule has plenty of games that are similar to last night. I will continue to be a true fan and hope they get it figured out and last night will prove to be the exception and not the standard going forward.

Rice recruited Mack (#2) somewhat heavily, if I recall correctly. Kind of funny his 2nd college game ended up being at Tudor.

Here's the problem. Every fanbase is prone to overreact early in the season. It's the most natural thing in college sports. But there's a difference between overreaction and observing a worrying continuation of past problems. Right now, it's hard to argue that we're not doing the latter.

There have been a few "staple flaws" of Pera-coached teams in the past. One is the defense. Part of that is individuals not being up to the task, but part of that is coaching. Another of the flaws is the offensive system. We rely too heavily on Fiedler and when a team shuts him down, we don't have enough individual playmakers. There are other issues, but those are the main two.

The reason people on this board are so down after this game is not because we lost game 2 of the season to Harvard. It could've been Harvard or Purdue Fort Worth or Austin Peay or whomever. It's *how* we lost, how we were exposed, and the fact that the flaws that we're so used to seem to still be present. There were *so many* defensive breakdowns: late to shooters, getting beaten on drives and 1v1, being slow in the P&R, etc. Add to that our lack of paint presence, and we look, well, similar to years past. And then there were the offensive woes. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll be improved offensively. We'll put up some gaudy numbers against bad defenses. But that's not the improvement I'm looking for. I'm looking for the signs that when we come up against well-disciplined defenses, we've got the guys or system to break them down. I didn't see that.

I mentioned this in the St. Thomas thread, but there were signs in that game that the defensive issues hadn't been sorted. It's pretty inexcusable to give up 89 points at home in the second game of the season, when it's your 7th year at the helm. Setting aside all of the other analysis, I don't think it makes somebody a fraud to point that out.

Hopefully we do what we did last year. Use this game as needed introspection and then go on a streak of winning games. But it's easy to see why so many might be frustrated.

(11-11-2023 07:48 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Absolute stinker, No question about it. But some of these comments are so laughable and outrageous that hopefully it will just expose more ‘fans’ here as being complete frauds who only want to push their own agendas and stopped being fans decades ago.

First, give credit to Harvard. They are good - an NCAA team from a few years back who can get there again this year. Number two is the type of freshman who used to end up at Georgetown or maybe Villanova. Harvard is going to love him the next four years. They wanted this game from the get-go and had the drive and intensity to win that we did not.

The men have a roster in place that could allow them to fix some flaws. Some things are fixable. Some are not. The schedule has plenty of games that are similar to last night. I will continue to be a true fan and hope they get it figured out and last night will prove to be the exception and not the standard going forward.

I think the Rice 'fans' fall into three buckets.

Bucket 1 has left. They have decided other things in their lives are more important than watching the products being put on field/court. You see that on engagement in places like here and overall attendance. Maybe they return when relevance returns...but for now, they are gone.

Bucket 2 will support the Owls and be there no matter what. That bucket shrinks each year but there are a still a few left.

Bucket 3 are fans of Rice but want to see change in the $ sports. They are fatigued watching the same mistakes, same issues over-and-over again each year keeping the Owls from having more W's and thus relevance. But the administration prioritizes 'stability' over 'change' and sub .500 results from coaches in jobs for many years speak for themselves.

For MBB, it is only second game of the year but sure looked like a 'rinse/repeat' of prior years vs. a team that will be making any noise in March. That is what you are seeing on this thread. Maybe blown out of proportion a bit given second game but I think that is b/c last night looked like a microcosm of the $ sports at Rice.

Last night was a stinker, and the defensive lapses of years past remains. However, equating last night's game with the football loss to UConn and treating this Harvard team as if it was a JV high school squad was over the top negative. The Harvard team I saw last night is a very well coached, very athletic and quality squad. They're not going to have halves like the 1H last night when they couldn't miss an outside shot. That was unlucky for us, though we did provide them with the space to take those shots. However, their offensive movement and stiffling defense will win them a lot of games this year. This was not a bad team as some have made them out to be.

(11-11-2023 09:56 AM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(11-11-2023 07:48 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Absolute stinker, No question about it. But some of these comments are so laughable and outrageous that hopefully it will just expose more ‘fans’ here as being complete frauds who only want to push their own agendas and stopped being fans decades ago.

First, give credit to Harvard. They are good - an NCAA team from a few years back who can get there again this year. Number two is the type of freshman who used to end up at Georgetown or maybe Villanova. Harvard is going to love him the next four years. They wanted this game from the get-go and had the drive and intensity to win that we did not.

The men have a roster in place that could allow them to fix some flaws. Some things are fixable. Some are not. The schedule has plenty of games that are similar to last night. I will continue to be a true fan and hope they get it figured out and last night will prove to be the exception and not the standard going forward.

Rice recruited Mack (#2) somewhat heavily, if I recall correctly. Kind of funny his 2nd college game ended up being at Tudor.

Here's the problem. Every fanbase is prone to overreact early in the season. It's the most natural thing in college sports. But there's a difference between overreaction and observing a worrying continuation of past problems. Right now, it's hard to argue that we're not doing the latter.

There have been a few "staple flaws" of Pera-coached teams in the past. One is the defense. Part of that is individuals not being up to the task, but part of that is coaching. Another of the flaws is the offensive system. We rely too heavily on Fiedler and when a team shuts him down, we don't have enough individual playmakers. There are other issues, but those are the main two.

The reason people on this board are so down after this game is not because we lost game 2 of the season to Harvard. It could've been Harvard or Purdue Fort Worth or Austin Peay or whomever. It's *how* we lost, how we were exposed, and the fact that the flaws that we're so used to seem to still be present. There were *so many* defensive breakdowns: late to shooters, getting beaten on drives and 1v1, being slow in the P&R, etc. Add to that our lack of paint presence, and we look, well, similar to years past. And then there were the offensive woes. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll be improved offensively. We'll put up some gaudy numbers against bad defenses. But that's not the improvement I'm looking for. I'm looking for the signs that when we come up against well-disciplined defenses, we've got the guys or system to break them down. I didn't see that.

I mentioned this in the St. Thomas thread, but there were signs in that game that the defensive issues hadn't been sorted. It's pretty inexcusable to give up 89 points at home in the second game of the season, when it's your 7th year at the helm. Setting aside all of the other analysis, I don't think it makes somebody a fraud to point that out.

Hopefully we do what we did last year. Use this game as needed introspection and then go on a streak of winning games. But it's easy to see why so many might be frustrated.

All true. But when the same people are willing to criticize so frequently in a stinker, but disappear in a good win, then that’s obvious they are rooting for failure. And when they make outrageous statements about just about every sport but one sport that has the same level of mediocrity as the sports they are relentlessly criticizing, then it’s obvious they have an agenda.

Both things are fine. We have freedom of speech here. But let’s not try to fool people and pretend you care about Rice athletics succeeding.

Let’s see. Harvard has been about .500 in the Ivies for years. They have a good coach in Amaker but they lost 5 of their top scorers from last year and their stud scorer transferred to St. John’s. On paper I think they had less than 20 ppg returning. They can’t reload through the transfer portal. Rice on paper has perhaps their “highest” rated team ever, returned 4 starters. So yes it is fair to be highly critical getting blown out at home in front of a decent crowd some of whom may not return. Hopefully just like Pepperdine last year we can wake up and turn things around. At the end of the year we will see how good Harvard will be, but they were not some defensive juggernaut. I want Rice to win as much as anybody and will never criticize our student athletes. Coaching and preparation are different. This year coach has a deeper bench and we can’t say we ran out of gas like we obviously did in some games last year later in the season. Defense wins games in hoop and we still ain’t got it.

As elw pointed out, criticism of this game is not done in isolation, but rather as noticing the continuum of 7 years with poor defense, inconsistent outside shooting and little inside presence. Add to that the fact that Harvard is retooling, while Rice has a ton of experienced players, and negative comments are expected.

And I believe that such criticism is more valid for those of us who actually graduated from Rice, and as such, have more "skin in the game".

Fielder is shooting .659 in his career. No reason why he shouldn't be getting at least 10 shot attempts every game.

(11-11-2023 02:03 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  As elw pointed out, criticism of this game is not done in isolation, but rather as noticing the continuum of 7 years with poor defense, inconsistent outside shooting and little inside presence. Add to that the fact that Harvard is retooling, while Rice has a ton of experienced players, and negative comments are expected.

And I believe that such criticism is more valid for those of us who actually graduated from Rice, and as such, have more "skin in the game".

Personal opinion ... what this program needs (football too but probably a heavier lift) is a true breakthrough season. A 25-5 kind of season. One that gets us in at least the at-large conversation.

Given everything we have coming back + the recruiting/transfer class, felt like there at a least a slight chance of that this season. A double digit home loss to Harvard would indicate otherwise.

Doesn't mean it's a lost season, but would seem to suggest that the far upside scenario is probably not a thing. The good news ... plenty of opportunities to prove otherwise by Thanksgiving.

As a long time follower of Rice Men’s basketball I struggle with some of the aspects of how the game is played now, with many of the “push the tempo” teams that rely on 3-point shots giving up points with mediocre defense and not challenge for rebounds. (That is one of the reasons i like watching Kelvin Sampson’s teams play…they start with lockdown defense and are relentless in fighting for every board)

Nonetheless, I think Coach Pera has improved the team every year he has been a head coach at Rice. Over the past 6 years his teams have won, 7, 13, 15, 15, 16, and 19 games and has been to the post season the past two years, as well as taking a highly ranked Texas team to overtime last season. Rice is now beginning to get the attention of some 3 and 4 star recruits and at least be in serious conversations with them. These are all positives.

I agree that he missed an opportunity to recruit a defensive specialist coach when he had a position opening last season. I do like how he has taken a former Rice player (Van Green) and is developing his coaching skills.

It is frustrating to lose games like this one with Harvard. But it is not gloom and doom on South Main. I like the talent on this team and they will be fun to watch develop and play this season.

Glad I hit a nerve with the U Conn comment but here’s why I made it.
We often decide before a game that we are better than this team because of rankings or records. U Conn was clearly ranked below us but persisted through the game and beat us by one possession. The Harvard game wasn’t against a JV team but on paper was men against boys. We have “super seniors” due to Covid, our longest team I can remember three 6’11 guys and one 6’9 super recruit and a ton more court experience. Our guards used to all be too short to play man to man effectively but now only Evee is less than 6’4. Harvard lets you play 4 years and then you graduate and seldom a transfer in, they were younger with much less NCAA court time and just kicked our ass. Others have rightfully been pushing for a defensive coach for years and we get constantly exposed. Harvard didn’t just beat us but won the game by multiple possessions. I didn’t see the entire game just a few clips but looked like layup after layup in the play by play. We weren’t ready and couldn’t adjust. We see the same in football where the preparation is lacking and we lose another we “should have won “.( see next 2 weeks ), hope I’m wrong.
I want Rice athletics to succeed more than anything. Remember sitting in the Jungle Gym in 1969 when we won conference with basically 7-8 guys and I think a 6’9 center. Basketball is the only major sport that you can win with good schemes, better preparation than the other team and a handful of good players. Why can’t we? We know the answer but don’t do anything.

Harvard beat Northeastern (middle of the pack in the CAA preseason) by 24 tonight.

(11-14-2023 10:59 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Harvard beat Northeastern (middle of the pack in the CAA preseason) by 24 tonight.

It was a 37 point lead midway through the second half before they emptied the bench.

Things don’t get easier. Top 20 Texas team on the road Thursday and then a really challenging tournament in Vegas next week. One of the teams there (UCI) just beat a top 25 USC team by 10.

(11-15-2023 01:16 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(11-14-2023 10:59 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Harvard beat Northeastern (middle of the pack in the CAA preseason) by 24 tonight.

It was a 37 point lead midway through the second half before they emptied the bench.

Things don’t get easier. Top 20 Texas team on the road Thursday and then a really challenging tournament in Vegas next week. One of the teams there (UCI) just beat a top 25 USC team by 10.

So Harvard might be better than most thought. Let’s go win some games

(11-15-2023 01:16 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(11-14-2023 10:59 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Harvard beat Northeastern (middle of the pack in the CAA preseason) by 24 tonight.

It was a 37 point lead midway through the second half before they emptied the bench.

Things don’t get easier. Top 20 Texas team on the road Thursday and then a really challenging tournament in Vegas next week. One of the teams there (UCI) just beat a top 25 USC team by 10.

I'll be at (at least) the Tuesday game in LV against Indiana State. Trying to clear schedule for at least one more. All three games will be against teams roughly in the #50-#100 range in KenPom ... great opportunity at a neutral site.