(11-03-2023 09:30 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  And, anyway, how would Stanford get out of the ACC GoR that the others can't break?

Right. I assume this is all 2036, which raises the question of relative financial strength of the ACC vs. the Big 12 at that time.

If the Big 12 is in a stronger position, I could see it trying to add 4 programs from the ACC. The best opportunity would be to strengthen its eastern flank by adding schools such as Miami and Georgia Tech. This would reduce the isolation of UCF, Cincy and WVU currently face and add some strong TV and recruiting markets.

If the ACC is in a stronger position, it could try to add a couple of western schools from the Big 12 to serve as travel partners for Cal. Arizona would be a great addition for this purpose. The ACC may also want to strengthen is presence in Texas.

Assuming neither the ACC or the Big 12 are in a position to raid each other, the ACC would definitely want to add some western schools as travel partners for Cal. Oregon State and Washington State anybody? It would also probably look to schools like Tulane and UConn.

(11-03-2023 09:54 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think ND would prefer Miami instead of Stanford if the big 10 was going to stop at 20 with ND and X. Yet, ND isn’t going to be forced to join the big 10.

I am curious as to why you think that ND would prefer Miami.

Frankly, I don't think (in the unlikely event it would join the Big Ten) that ND would prefer anyone at all.

(11-02-2023 07:05 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Sorry for starting this thread, but I can't resist.

*B1G Ten stops at 20 w/ Notre Dame and Stanford added
*SEC stops at 20 w/ North Carolina, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia added
*Both B1G and SEC sign long-term 12 to 15 year TV contracts that are clear in that they will not be paid any more money for adding any additional teams

ACC would be down to 12 teams (NC State, VA Tech, Louisville, Pitt, Miami, Syracuse, Duke, Boston College, Wake Forest, GA Tech, SMU, Cal)

XII would still be at 16

What happens next?

I think either Cal says we don't want the bad geography any more with the marquee teams gone, and finds a way into the XII with one other team

OR

the XII gets aggressive and goes after 4 teams such as Cal, VA Tech, Pitt, Miami

OR

the XII and the ACC outright merge or form a long-term TV rights alliance and WVU + UCF + Cinci slide to the ACC side and Cal slides to the XII side (14 for each side)

OR

No movement between ACC and XII, so USF and UConn get added to ACC

What is the time frame?

It's not likely that ND, Clemson, Miami and FSU leave the ACC before 2035 or so. It's zero possibility that any other ACC schools including Stanford leave the ACC before 2035.

If the time frame is after 2037, then the B12 schools will be free to leave in 2030. You may want to make sure the B12 membership won't change during that time first.

(11-03-2023 12:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  It's not likely that ND, Clemson, Miami and FSU leave the ACC before 2035 or so. It's zero possibility that any other ACC schools including Stanford leave the ACC before 2035.

Not likely and zero possibility?

Hmmm ...

(11-03-2023 01:55 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 12:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  It's not likely that ND, Clemson, Miami and FSU leave the ACC before 2035 or so. It's zero possibility that any other ACC schools including Stanford leave the ACC before 2035.

Not likely and zero possibility?

Hmmm ...

You can't leave something that already dissolved.

(11-03-2023 02:01 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 01:55 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 12:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  It's not likely that ND, Clemson, Miami and FSU leave the ACC before 2035 or so. It's zero possibility that any other ACC schools including Stanford leave the ACC before 2035.

Not likely and zero possibility?

Hmmm ...

You can't leave something that already dissolved.

Yeah. That's...not...happening

We are in end of time parlance now what with the build up in the Middle East and the global super powers taking an interest. Perhaps nothing needs to be changed at all in the ACC. But in realignment hell it appears that the pearly gates and golden streets belong to the SEC and Big 10. Given there is a vulgar connotation to the word poach, perhaps there are no legal provisions to the word "rapture".

Notre Dame would never be poached, that's gosh. No Notre Dame official will willingly give up independence and certainly would not accept responsibility for it. But if the Big 10 raptured Notre Dame that would be a whole new concept which might assuage Irish fans and it implies being "rescued" by God from a grave situation "end times of the ACC".

Since "rapture" is a divine intervention wholly unforeseen, I'm sure there is no GOR provision against it. Other ACC school might also be raptured by the SEC. And there would be no damages to be paid not only because of the divine rescue of some, but the fact that those left behind were deemed to be beyond the help of Heaven.

In this sense the defense against the GOR would be known as the "NETWORK" (movie) defense, because Howard Beal would have heard the voice of God and would have abandoned the empathy for those left behind because they would have been doomed due to "poor ratings."

(11-03-2023 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We are in end of time parlance now what with the build up in the Middle East and the global super powers taking an interest. Perhaps nothing needs to be changed at all in the ACC. But in realignment hell it appears that the pearly gates and golden streets belong to the SEC and Big 10. Given there is a vulgar connotation to the word poach, perhaps there are no legal provisions to the word "rapture".

Notre Dame would never be poached, that's gosh. No Notre Dame official will willingly give up independence and certainly would not accept responsibility for it. But if the Big 10 raptured Notre Dame that would be a whole new concept which might assuage Irish fans and it implies being "rescued" by God from a grave situation "end times of the ACC".

Since "rapture" is a divine intervention wholly unforeseen, I'm sure there is no GOR provision against it. Other ACC school might also be raptured by the SEC. And there would be no damages to be paid not only because of the divine rescue of some, but the fact that those left behind were deemed to be beyond the help of Heaven.

In this sense the defense against the GOR would be known as the "NETWORK" (movie) defense, because Howard Beal would have heard the voice of God and would have abandoned the empathy for those left behind because they would have been doomed due to "poor ratings."

More references here than an Archer episode. Well done!

I was thinking earlier about the pitchforks out for Michigan. The more I think on that, the more I think that they wouldn't choose to leave the conference that they built...unless it was to build a new Conference. ND will never "join" Conference, but what if they built it from the ground up? Michigan + ND make a few calls to certain parties, the SEC schools say "no thanks", but now the genie is out of the bottle and conversations start happening in earnest in the places that matter. Ann Arbor. Columbus. Tuscaloosa. South Bend. All the big SEC Brands + PSU and USC. Probably FSU. What do we end up with?

ND
Michigan
Alabama
Texas
Ohio St
Georgia
Florida
Penn St
A&M
OU
Auburn
Tennessee
LSU
USC

That's 14, add in ~ 10 more of the best of the rest like Wisconsin, FSU, Nebraska, Oregon, etc etc. And it all got started b/c a n00b B1G Commissioner couldn't tell his AD's no.

(11-03-2023 09:29 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 07:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  ND must be forced, they will not cave if they can continue to skirt the rules

They don't 'skirt the rules'. They write the rules.

Go Irish!

Something we can finally agree on, Loki. Go Irish!

(11-03-2023 09:25 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 07:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  ND must be forced, they will not cave if they can continue to skirt the rules

I'm always amazed by this popular idea that schools should be "forced" to join a conference....as if CFB wasn't better when there were a lot more independents.

Better for whom? Unless you’re ND or one of the service academies independence kind of sucks, and the service academies are even independent anymore.

My thoughts would be UCF, Cincinnati and West Virginia join the ACC.
Cal goes to big 12
Both could stay at 14.
If more schools are needed
ACC gets
Memphis and ECU (or just best school available)

Big 12 adds
Utsa and San Diego State. Adds another team to shore up Texas plus a extra dip into California for the C4 schools.

Big 12 and ACC would be at 16. This should be the ACC and Big 12 time to find schools #17 to #20 if need be after.

(11-03-2023 12:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 09:54 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think ND would prefer Miami instead of Stanford if the big 10 was going to stop at 20 with ND and X. Yet, ND isn’t going to be forced to join the big 10.

I am curious as to why you think that ND would prefer Miami.

Frankly, I don't think (in the unlikely event it would join the Big Ten) that ND would prefer anyone at all.

The reason why ND would prefer someone is pretty simple: the conference belongs to Michigan and Ohio State. ND would run the risk of being outvoted at every end, and would need allies to guard against that possibility.

Toward that end, the best choice for ND might be Pitt, in that Pitt certainly would need ND to get in moreso than either Stanford or Miami would.

(11-03-2023 02:44 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 09:25 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 07:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  ND must be forced, they will not cave if they can continue to skirt the rules

I'm always amazed by this popular idea that schools should be "forced" to join a conference....as if CFB wasn't better when there were a lot more independents.

Better for whom? Unless you’re ND or one of the service academies independence kind of sucks, and the service academies are even independent anymore.

Not necessarily any "whom." Notice I said "CFB"--meaning college football, aka the whole, overarching kit-and-kaboodle.

But, yeah, when Florida State could have an anyone, anytime, anywhere mentality and take themselves from the dregs to elite status: that was pretty awesome. When schools that had great fanbases like Southern Miss and ECU were part of the power structure: Yeah, that was pretty awesome. When Penn State had great rivalries with Pitt, Syracuse, and West Virginia: yeah, awesome. When Miami was the misfits of the CFB world: awesome.

If you missed it, sorry. Nothing's really changed for Rutgers except y'all make more money. Fans don't get any of that money, though. It's the driver, but, overall, CFB is worse off for it.

(11-03-2023 03:05 PM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 12:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 09:54 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think ND would prefer Miami instead of Stanford if the big 10 was going to stop at 20 with ND and X. Yet, ND isn’t going to be forced to join the big 10.

I am curious as to why you think that ND would prefer Miami.

Frankly, I don't think (in the unlikely event it would join the Big Ten) that ND would prefer anyone at all.

The reason why ND would prefer someone is pretty simple: the conference belongs to Michigan and Ohio State. ND would run the risk of being outvoted at every end, and would need allies to guard against that possibility.

Toward that end, the best choice for ND might be Pitt, in that Pitt certainly would need ND to get in moreso than either Stanford or Miami would.

That’s certainly a big reason that ND is so hesitant to join the B1G, just as OUT were so hesitant to join the SEC. But for OUT, they were able to witness up close that A&M and Missouri were well treated for a decade by the SEC, enabling them to make the move with some measure of assurance. All ND has to go by when looking at the B1G is how Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland, Oregon and Washington were treated like unwanted step children.

The only way to avoid this, if they ever want to join a conference at all ofc, is to make their own. Today they can’t get anyone from the SEC or B1G, so their most likely move would be to be a founding member of Conference 1, if that ever happens ofc.

(11-03-2023 02:44 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 09:25 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 07:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  ND must be forced, they will not cave if they can continue to skirt the rules

I'm always amazed by this popular idea that schools should be "forced" to join a conference....as if CFB wasn't better when there were a lot more independents.

Better for whom? Unless you’re ND or one of the service academies independence kind of sucks, and the service academies are even independent anymore.

But the reason Independence sucks is that there aren't enough other Independents to schedule games in October and November.

So the fact that Independence sucks now does not mean that Independence always sucked.

It's just, a media contract reduces the risks face by media partners when the "big name" school has an off year, because somebody is going to win the conference, while if you have contracts with six different big name independents, they actually can all have a bad year at the same time without the "somebody has got to win the conference games" effect to bail them out.

(11-03-2023 04:04 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 02:44 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 09:25 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(11-02-2023 07:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  ND must be forced, they will not cave if they can continue to skirt the rules

I'm always amazed by this popular idea that schools should be "forced" to join a conference....as if CFB wasn't better when there were a lot more independents.

Better for whom? Unless you’re ND or one of the service academies independence kind of sucks, and the service academies are even independent anymore.

But the reason Independence sucks is that there aren't enough other Independents to schedule games in October and November.

And this is why they were contemplating a full membership in a larger ACC deal prior to that blowing up internally in 2011 and that blow up is the reason Notre Dame got to sign on with the ACC as a partial member the way they had with the Big East and were willing to do so precisely for the reasons you just stated. It's damned hard for an independent to fill games during most conference's conference play. And late date games are more of a gestalt for most programs in conferences.

(11-03-2023 02:24 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(11-03-2023 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  We are in end of time parlance now what with the build up in the Middle East and the global super powers taking an interest. Perhaps nothing needs to be changed at all in the ACC. But in realignment hell it appears that the pearly gates and golden streets belong to the SEC and Big 10. Given there is a vulgar connotation to the word poach, perhaps there are no legal provisions to the word "rapture".

Notre Dame would never be poached, that's gosh. No Notre Dame official will willingly give up independence and certainly would not accept responsibility for it. But if the Big 10 raptured Notre Dame that would be a whole new concept which might assuage Irish fans and it implies being "rescued" by God from a grave situation "end times of the ACC".

Since "rapture" is a divine intervention wholly unforeseen, I'm sure there is no GOR provision against it. Other ACC school might also be raptured by the SEC. And there would be no damages to be paid not only because of the divine rescue of some, but the fact that those left behind were deemed to be beyond the help of Heaven.

In this sense the defense against the GOR would be known as the "NETWORK" (movie) defense, because Howard Beal would have heard the voice of God and would have abandoned the empathy for those left behind because they would have been doomed due to "poor ratings."

More references here than an Archer episode. Well done!

I was thinking earlier about the pitchforks out for Michigan. The more I think on that, the more I think that they wouldn't choose to leave the conference that they built...unless it was to build a new Conference. ND will never "join" Conference, but what if they built it from the ground up? Michigan + ND make a few calls to certain parties, the SEC schools say "no thanks", but now the genie is out of the bottle and conversations start happening in earnest in the places that matter. Ann Arbor. Columbus. Tuscaloosa. South Bend. All the big SEC Brands + PSU and USC. Probably FSU. What do we end up with?

ND
Michigan
Alabama
Texas
Ohio St
Georgia
Florida
Penn St
A&M
OU
Auburn
Tennessee
LSU
USC

That's 14, add in ~ 10 more of the best of the rest like Wisconsin, FSU, Nebraska, Oregon, etc etc. And it all got started b/c a n00b B1G Commissioner couldn't tell his AD's no.

Michigan twice blocked Notre Dame from joining the Big Ten;
twice initiated a hiatus of 30+ years in the series;
pressured Big Ten members to drop Notre Dame from their schedules to the point that four long-time Big Ten members (Illinois, Indiana, Iowa and Wisconsin) have played Notre Dame a combined total of two times since 1968.

If you want something more recent, check out the gamesmanship surrounding the most recent cancellation of the series.

I understand that a lot of people like to post fantasies on here. This, however, would be the mother of all fantasies.