(10-18-2023 07:52 PM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  Bower never won 10 games in a season. Fedora did in his fourth year (actually 12) and he is literally hated by some USM fans forever loyal to Bower because of it. That, if you think about it, is a root problem of the program. Too many supporters still looking for Bower.

you're not wrong ... the niche clique in the 'burg mostly thought Fedhat and Monk were both arseholes ... just like LE in hoops...

it's not beyond the scope of reality to state, "lesson(s) still NOT learned."

oh, wellzy...

#can'tfixdipshites #thinksmallplaysmall

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

bwahahahahahahahahaha .... somebody please dig up that locker room vid where he's preaching gospel that ping pongs back and forth to the hip hop dance festival ... epic fail...

just no, man...

(10-18-2023 01:27 PM)BirdofParadise Wrote:  I'll say this about Bower's teams. They were, more often than not, competitive against everyone, including teams from more prestigious conferences.

His teams would like up on defense and hit you in the mouth every play. Southern Miss hasn't had that since.

Bower was successful in a completely different college football environment. He refused to hire a spread offense coordinator and results became average once online recruiting service grew and diamonds in the rough no longer existed. Also, according to many players in the 2008 class, Bower didn’t even try to recruit them because he figured they’d go SEC and it was a waste of his time.

It was time for Bower to go. It could have been handled better, but it was time.

When we joined CUSA in 2005 Southern Miss is the game I loved, but not sure our WRs and RBs felt the same way. They were vicious hitters on defense, had big, fast LBers and nasty safeties.

I think the change from Bower changed their identity to more of a finesse team. A finesse team lives and dies by the QB and they just haven’t had a lot of luck there recently (like Marshall). Troy reminds me of USM from 15-20 years ago.

What’s odd is I think the same thing is happening to Alabama. They have gone from defense and running the ball believing that they need to score more to compete for championships. They have the ability to recruit great QBs, but when they miss on that one position, even with all their talent, they are not the same. Defense and running the ball never go out of style, but as Lou Holtz once said, alumni and donors like seeing the ball in the air.

(10-18-2023 08:17 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 07:52 PM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  Bower never won 10 games in a season. Fedora did in his fourth year (actually 12) and he is literally hated by some USM fans forever loyal to Bower because of it. That, if you think about it, is a root problem of the program. Too many supporters still looking for Bower.

you're not wrong ... the niche clique in the 'burg mostly thought Fedhat and Monk were both arseholes ... just like LE in hoops...

it's not beyond the scope of reality to state, "lesson(s) still NOT learned."

oh, wellzy...

#can'tfixdipshites #thinksmallplaysmall

Culturally, Hall fit in technically as one of us (Mississippian who talks familiar language) and was acceptable to the Bower Diehards. Wommack is actually “one of us” but he played for Fedora so therefore is unwashed in the eyes of the Jeffbyterians (Harbor Pointe’s label for the Bower lovers).

The Jeffbyterians pushed Hall with McClain. Wommack went to South. Three ass whippings later, the choice was obviously the wrong one. But at least one of those slick Fedora types isn’t coaching Southern Miss.

(10-19-2023 05:18 AM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 08:17 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 07:52 PM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  Bower never won 10 games in a season. Fedora did in his fourth year (actually 12) and he is literally hated by some USM fans forever loyal to Bower because of it. That, if you think about it, is a root problem of the program. Too many supporters still looking for Bower.

you're not wrong ... the niche clique in the 'burg mostly thought Fedhat and Monk were both arseholes ... just like LE in hoops...

it's not beyond the scope of reality to state, "lesson(s) still NOT learned."

oh, wellzy...

#can'tfixdipshites #thinksmallplaysmall

Culturally, Hall fit in technically as one of us (Mississippian who talks familiar language) and was acceptable to the Bower Diehards. Wommack is actually “one of us” but he played for Fedora so therefore is unwashed in the eyes of the Jeffbyterians (Harbor Pointe’s label for the Bower lovers).

The Jeffbyterians pushed Hall with McClain. Wommack went to South. Three ass whippings later, the choice was obviously the wrong one. But at least one of those slick Fedora types isn’t coaching Southern Miss.

The Bower clique fervently supported the Hopson and Hall hires.

I’ll say no more because that about covers it.

(10-18-2023 11:52 PM)banker Wrote:  When we joined CUSA in 2005 Southern Miss is the game I loved, but not sure our WRs and RBs felt the same way. They were vicious hitters on defense, had big, fast LBers and nasty safeties.

I think the change from Bower changed their identity to more of a finesse team. A finesse team lives and dies by the QB and they just haven’t had a lot of luck there recently (like Marshall). Troy reminds me of USM from 15-20 years ago.

What’s odd is I think the same thing is happening to Alabama. They have gone from defense and running the ball believing that they need to score more to compete for championships. They have the ability to recruit great QBs, but when they miss on that one position, even with all their talent, they are not the same. Defense and running the ball never go out of style, but as Lou Holtz once said, alumni and donors like seeing the ball in the air.

In the late ‘90s-early 2000s, we were still trying to win low-scoring games while the programs around us started wiggling their hineys on offense and building around QBs. Stopping those offenses for 60 minutes was impossible. You had to put up at least a fair amount of points to have a chance, and we often couldn’t because that’s just not how we did things.

We’d won 3 CUSA championships in a row out the gate. Then we won 1 in 4 years. After 3 more years without one and the program very obviously slipping (a home loss to a winless Rice team that finished 3-9 was the breaking point), we brought in Fedora. Then we hired a career SEC defensive assistant specifically to get us back to playing football “the right way,” i.e., defense and running the ball.

The program’s been a dumpster fire since, with the only bright spot coming under the leadership of…hmmm…another Fedora-type offensive guru with a QB who’s now in the NFL. You damned right, I want to see the ball in the air, because that sh*t works. Name one G5 in the past 25 years that did something big by winning 13-10 every week.

(10-19-2023 07:33 AM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 11:52 PM)banker Wrote:  When we joined CUSA in 2005 Southern Miss is the game I loved, but not sure our WRs and RBs felt the same way. They were vicious hitters on defense, had big, fast LBers and nasty safeties.

I think the change from Bower changed their identity to more of a finesse team. A finesse team lives and dies by the QB and they just haven’t had a lot of luck there recently (like Marshall). Troy reminds me of USM from 15-20 years ago.

What’s odd is I think the same thing is happening to Alabama. They have gone from defense and running the ball believing that they need to score more to compete for championships. They have the ability to recruit great QBs, but when they miss on that one position, even with all their talent, they are not the same. Defense and running the ball never go out of style, but as Lou Holtz once said, alumni and donors like seeing the ball in the air.

In the late ‘90s-early 2000s, we were still trying to win low-scoring games while the programs around us started wiggling their hineys on offense and building around QBs. Stopping those offenses for 60 minutes was impossible. You had to put up at least a fair amount of points to have a chance, and we often couldn’t because that’s just not how we did things.

We’d won 3 CUSA championships in a row out the gate. Then we won 1 in 4 years. After 3 more years without one and the program very obviously slipping (a home loss to a winless Rice team that finished 3-9 was the breaking point), we brought in Fedora. Then we hired a career SEC defensive assistant specifically to get us back to playing football “the right way,” i.e., defense and running the ball.

The program’s been a dumpster fire since, with the only bright spot coming under the leadership of…hmmm…another Fedora-type offensive guru with a QB who’s now in the NFL. You damned right, I want to see the ball in the air, because that sh*t works. Name one G5 in the past 25 years that did something big by winning 13-10 every week.

So Miss trumped down sch for Federa, his 12 win season was in weakened C-USA,
with 3 SB & 1 power school OOC, granted he beat Vir & ranked Hous in CCG.
6-2 record was 3rd in C-USA, winning the east div.

the 8 other seasons So Miss won 9 or more games, 3-5 power conf schools were played

to answer ur ?, Academy's, EC, Marshall, Toledo, No ILL,

(10-19-2023 11:07 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  So Miss trumped down sch for Federa, his 12 win season was in weakened C-USA

CUSA’s membership changed prior to the 2005 season and then again prior to the 2013 season. Coach Bower competed in the same CUSA his last 2 seasons as Fedora and Johnson did behind him.

Quote:with 3 SB & 1 power school OOC, granted he beat Vir & ranked Hous in CCG.
6-2 record was 3rd in C-USA, winning the east div.

the 8 other seasons So Miss won 9 or more games, 3-5 power conf schools were played

to answer ur ?, Academy's, EC, Marshall, Toledo, No ILL,

Our 2011 OOC was an 8-5 La. Tech; that Virginia team, which finished 8-5 and tied for 2nd in the ACC Coastal; a Navy team that was mediocre but had won 9 games the year before and won 8 the next; and the usual FCS tune-up in Southeastern La. The Houston team was undefeated and in the Top 10 when we beat them. That schedule was no cakewalk.

I hate having to disparage arguably our most successful coach all-time, but what people don’t realize is that when you really dig in, most of Bower’s wins came vs. bad teams. Yeah, he played a lot of tough P5 opponents, but also played a crapload of patsies in the earlier incarnations of CUSA. His all-time record vs. winning teams is actually pretty terrible.

But again, he’s been gone for 16 f***ing years. 12 more have passed since Fedora left. Arguing their relative merits and faults is pretty pointless at this juncture.

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

Are you serious, Clark?

(10-19-2023 12:48 PM)USM3000 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

Are you serious, Clark?

I don't think he was.

(10-19-2023 12:54 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 12:48 PM)USM3000 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

Are you serious, Clark?

I don't think he was.

I mean Cousin Eddie was dumb enough to leave a place that he could've continued doing what he was doing and be loved to go to Florida where he was expected a CFP appearance year 1 and a championship year 2, and if it didn't happen, he was gonna be shown the door at the end of year 3.

(10-18-2023 12:29 PM)ChooChoo Wrote:  What happened to Southern Miss? We did. The SBC. They were the darlings of the southern independents and in gulf region for FBS. You add 6 FBS to their recruiting territory TX St, ULM, USA, Troy, GS, GSU then the talent pool isn’t nearly as deep. I do think they’ll be back though. We need a strong USM.

The first guy to get it.

However bad coaching hires certainly is the main problem at the moment. We used to get really good players that either didn’t get SEC attention or kids that just wanted to come to USM. Today those kids don’t entertain any G5 school if any P5 offers them. The kids that do fall through the cracks have many more choices. We will all suffer the same fate at some point. We will not keep good coaches and a single bad hire can damage a program for a decade. See USM….

NIL….the running back at Ole Miss is getting $900,000 this year. No way to battle that at any G5 or even most P5s. And has anyone noticed the absence of players being declared academically ineligible?

(10-19-2023 01:00 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 12:54 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 12:48 PM)USM3000 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

Are you serious, Clark?

I don't think he was.

I mean Cousin Eddie was dumb enough to leave a place that he could've continued doing what he was doing and be loved to go to Florida where he was expected a CFP appearance year 1 and a championship year 2, and if it didn't happen, he was gonna be shown the door at the end of year 3.

A billion dollars richer. I’d take that job in a New York minute.

[/quote]

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.
[/quote]

Are you serious, Clark?
[/quote]

I don't think he was.
[/quote]

(10-19-2023 12:48 PM)USM3000 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

Are you serious, Clark?

Yes, Mullen was a consistent winner at State. I don't care if we hired Joe Biden. We just need to win.

(10-20-2023 12:03 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 12:48 PM)USM3000 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 05:37 PM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 01:16 PM)Bulldogtrojan Wrote:  The person that hired Will Hall is the same person that hired Chip Lindsey. Food for thought....

Will Hall looked good on paper. It just didn't work out. I hope they at least give Dan Mullen a call. At least he knows this state.

Are you serious, Clark?

Yes, Mullen was a consistent winner at State. I don't care if we hired Joe Biden. We just need to win.

Yeah, it was more of a joke about Mullen looking like Cousin Eddie. And I agree, just win, baby. Just win.

(10-18-2023 07:52 PM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  Bower never won 10 games in a season. Fedora did in his fourth year (actually 12) and he is literally hated by some USM fans forever loyal to Bower because of it. That, if you think about it, is a root problem of the program. Too many supporters still looking for Bower.

Bowah only corched 11 games a year whilst the head man...not as many bowl games either..(edit didn't realize this had already been posted)

Bowah has been a friend since college (oh gosh, just showed me age)...but things did get stagnant his last few years, especially after the tragic death of his beloved daughter...

Having "said" that, looking for the next Bowah is akin to looking for the next Tom Osbourne or the next Frank Beamer (ask Nebraska or Va Tech)....ain't gonna happen...and we don't need a corch who wins by interview by a buncha azz kizzers ("God Bless 'murica, my chil'ren and Miss'sippi" )...Fedora said he was here to kick azz and take names, and that's the kinda "interview" uSm needs.

So much more but so little time my friends...

(10-19-2023 07:12 AM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(10-19-2023 05:18 AM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 08:17 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-18-2023 07:52 PM)FairwayEagle Wrote:  Bower never won 10 games in a season. Fedora did in his fourth year (actually 12) and he is literally hated by some USM fans forever loyal to Bower because of it. That, if you think about it, is a root problem of the program. Too many supporters still looking for Bower.

you're not wrong ... the niche clique in the 'burg mostly thought Fedhat and Monk were both arseholes ... just like LE in hoops...

it's not beyond the scope of reality to state, "lesson(s) still NOT learned."

oh, wellzy...

#can'tfixdipshites #thinksmallplaysmall

Culturally, Hall fit in technically as one of us (Mississippian who talks familiar language) and was acceptable to the Bower Diehards. Wommack is actually “one of us” but he played for Fedora so therefore is unwashed in the eyes of the Jeffbyterians (Harbor Pointe’s label for the Bower lovers).

The Jeffbyterians pushed Hall with McClain. Wommack went to South. Three ass whippings later, the choice was obviously the wrong one. But at least one of those slick Fedora types isn’t coaching Southern Miss.

The Bower clique fervently supported the Hopson and Hall hires.

I love Jeff...but I don't think all of us who respect him are part of a "clique"....I HATED the Elosssssssssss hire....loved the Fedora hire...was skeptical of the Hall, Hop AND Monkee hires, but HOPED they all worked out (obviously only one did)