Didn't see it in the recent Gonzaga/B12 thread, but Norlander gave some good updates regarding the Big 12 pursuit of Gonzaga:

- Yormark is driving basketball expansion for separate college basketball TV deal at end of the decade
- there is still pushback from Big 12 Presidents/ADs about the inclusion of Gonzaga. Yormark is pushing hard, but there is general sense "Gonzaga isn't going anywhere, so why add now?"
- lots of financial questions regarding the additions of the 4C schools (alluded to Jamie Pollard's quotes earlier). FOX/ESPN are still ironing out the details.
- Big 12 Leaders had a lot of questions for Yormark to bring back to Gonzaga, many of which they (Gonzaga) would likely not be thrilled with. Sense for pause and evaluation.
- Big 12 needs 75% to admit Gonzaga; they don't have that right now. 4Cs do not have a vote right now.
- ADs do not sound supportive about it right now.
- UConn is not involved with the Big 12 right now. Yormark has dismissed them as a near-term expansion candidate.

I would think if the big 12 expands a California school, San Diego state should be target #1. I would add them first and pair them with 1 from USF, Tulane, Oregon state or Gonzaga to get to 18.

(10-11-2023 10:15 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think if the big 12 expands a California school, San Diego state should be target #1. I would add them first and pair them with 1 from USF, Tulane, Oregon state or Gonzaga to get to 18.

That isn't the discussion. The discussion is "Does Gonzaga, as a non-football school and basketball brand" bring enough value to the Big 12 to gain entry to the conference.

Nobody is talking to SDSU, just like they weren't over the past two years. If there is any discussion about a California team in this situation, it will be about someone like St. Mary's to be paired as #2 team for Gonzaga.

(10-11-2023 10:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  - Big 12 needs 75% to admit Gonzaga; ... 4Cs do not have a vote right now.

They'd be foolish if they don't ask for, and seriously consider their opinions, though. I suspect the 4Cs are firm "Not now; let's wait until we are settled in."

(10-11-2023 10:36 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  - Big 12 needs 75% to admit Gonzaga; ... 4Cs do not have a vote right now.

They'd be foolish if they don't ask for, and seriously consider their opinions, though. I suspect the 4Cs are firm "Not now; let's wait until we are settled in."

Yeah lets listen to the 4 new schools whose stick their head in the ground attitudes killed the Pac12

(10-11-2023 10:36 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  - Big 12 needs 75% to admit Gonzaga; ... 4Cs do not have a vote right now.

They'd be foolish if they don't ask for, and seriously consider their opinions, though. I suspect the 4Cs are firm "Not now; let's wait until we are settled in."

It's a very political move, but when a conference adds a large block of new schools, it's important to assimilate them in over time and keep the core membership/values in place (to avoid the creation of factions, or eventually being overruled/outvoted). The Big 12 will have eight new members in the next 12 months (BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Houston, Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah). That will be 50% of the Big 12. Financials will always drive a majority of the decision-making, but the worst thing to happen would be two factions (old Big 12 v. new Big 12) in conference direction. It's also conceivable that WVU could "flip", as it doesn't share any history with the Big 12 members (prior to being invited. Houston and TCU at least share SWC lineage.

Gonzaga might be better of waiting

After the implosion of the ACC, Gonzaga might prefer being in a conference with more private schools than the public school heavy Big 12

(10-11-2023 10:29 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:15 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think if the big 12 expands a California school, San Diego state should be target #1. I would add them first and pair them with 1 from USF, Tulane, Oregon state or Gonzaga to get to 18.

That isn't the discussion. The discussion is "Does Gonzaga, as a non-football school and basketball brand" bring enough value to the Big 12 to gain entry to the conference.

Nobody is talking to SDSU, just like they weren't over the past two years. If there is any discussion about a California team in this situation, it will be about someone like St. Mary's to be paired as #2 team for Gonzaga.

There's debate whether Gonzaga will be profitable long-term for the Big XII. If there's debate around Gonzaga's long-term profitability, Saint Mary's or any other non-FB school doesn't have a chance. The list is Gonzaga (and a handful of Big East schools in a fantasy scenario) and that's it.

(10-11-2023 10:36 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  - Big 12 needs 75% to admit Gonzaga; ... 4Cs do not have a vote right now.

They'd be foolish if they don't ask for, and seriously consider their opinions, though. I suspect the 4Cs are firm "Not now; let's wait until we are settled in."

It would be a mistake to railroad Gonzaga into the league if there wasn't 75% support for it among the Four Corners. Talk about getting off on the wrong foot.

The way people pimp Gonzaga here you wonder why this isn't a no-brainer?

(10-11-2023 10:43 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:36 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  - Big 12 needs 75% to admit Gonzaga; ... 4Cs do not have a vote right now.

They'd be foolish if they don't ask for, and seriously consider their opinions, though. I suspect the 4Cs are firm "Not now; let's wait until we are settled in."

Yeah lets listen to the 4 new schools whose stick their head in the ground attitudes killed the Pac12

Riiigght. The B1G killed the PAC. Then the Big 12 did their part to finish it off. Again, the Big 12 is only stable because nobody from the SEC or B1G wants their schools.

(10-11-2023 11:02 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Gonzaga might be better of waiting

After the implosion of the ACC, Gonzaga might prefer being in a conference with more private schools than the public school heavy Big 12

Gotta disagree from Gonzaga’s perspective. There might be a debate within the Big 12 about whether expanding with Gonzaga is worth it, but there shouldn’t be any hesitation on Gonzaga’s side: if one of the P4 leagues or Big East invites them, they HAVE to take it.

Whether regular season basketball is undervalued TV-wise deserves a lot of skepticism (and I say that as someone that believes that the Big Ten and schools like my alma mater of Illinois would benefit the most from basketball TV rights increasing in value, so I hope that I’m wrong).

However, where there shouldn’t be skepticism is a future world where the P4 and Big East take outsized control of NCAA Tournament revenue in the way that the P4 already does for football. IMHO, THAT is where the future value of having the best basketball brands will lie. That’s a world where being outside of the P4/Big East in basketball will become just as disadvantageous as it is for anyone outside of the P4/Notre Dame for football, so Gonzaga should be seeking a safe harbor in one of the power basketball leagues while it has the leverage to do so. The proposed Fox-run consolation basketball tournament with the Big Ten, Big East and Big 12 that would effectively gut the NIT is just the canary in the coal mine for the bigger prize of the NCAA Tournament itself. (Note that I won’t go as far as some others in believing that the power conferences would just hold their own tournament. However, I definitely believe that the power conferences want to take 80-plus percent of the revenue from the current tournament structure in the same way as the CFP.)

Passivity has proven to be a consistent loser in conference realignment for the past 30 years. Waiting for something better has virtually always backfired - you take the bird on hand and go from there.

Gonzaga needs to be working the phones to see if it can cut a deal with either the Big East or the Big 12. The latter seems a "better" option as the Big 12 has the potential to be the best men's hoops league in the country on a consistent basis. But the Big East would be a very solid choice for GU.

Being a member of the WCC once the current NCAA Tournament model is changed could be bad for Gonzaga.

Seems like Gonzaga is Yormark’s pet project. ADs and presidents would balk at it.

We will see but I won’t bet on it.

(10-11-2023 11:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  The way people pimp Gonzaga here you wonder why this isn't a no-brainer?

You may actually be right about this for a change, but I don't see how Zaga doesn't help the BBall package, when the late night package is pretty much Zona and nobody else (I guess BYU can have a decent year from time to time). Obviously past performance is not indicative yada yada yada...

I don't think the 4C would vote for them either, although BYU is probably a yes vote. UC, WVU, and UCF would certainly be no's.

You need 12, so you really need all midwest 8 plus BYU and most of the four corners to vote yes (or if added now, central eight and/or BYU). ISU is also chirping, so that's a huge setback for Yormark.

Just a cluster ****.

Gonzaga is an R3 school and is far behind Boise State in academics. They might be better off in the PAC 12 with the merger with the MWC since San Jose State is also an R3.

if the 4th TV window [10:30 est] is not worth pursuing
how does Gonzaga change that

(10-11-2023 12:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Gonzaga is an R3 school and is far behind Boise State in academics. They might be better off in the PAC 12 with the merger with the MWC since San Jose State is also an R3.

Gonzaga, like many Catholic universities, places more emphasis on teaching than on research. GU is a very respected university.

(10-11-2023 10:29 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:15 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think if the big 12 expands a California school, San Diego state should be target #1. I would add them first and pair them with 1 from USF, Tulane, Oregon state or Gonzaga to get to 18.

That isn't the discussion. The discussion is "Does Gonzaga, as a non-football school and basketball brand" bring enough value to the Big 12 to gain entry to the conference.

Nobody is talking to SDSU, just like they weren't over the past two years. If there is any discussion about a California team in this situation, it will be about someone like St. Mary's to be paired as #2 team for Gonzaga.

St. Mary's plays in a gym that is similar sized (3,500) and less impressive than most large high schools. And they rarely sell it out (unless Gonzaga is in town) because they are a small school with a small fanbase.

The school is also rapidly shrinking.

St. Mary's fall enrollment by year (link)
4030 - 2015
3908 - 2016
3913 - 2017
3881 - 2018
3692 - 2019
3439 - 2020
3166 - 2021
2765 - 2022

Zero chance they are in the discussion.

(10-11-2023 01:24 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:29 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  

(10-11-2023 10:15 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would think if the big 12 expands a California school, San Diego state should be target #1. I would add them first and pair them with 1 from USF, Tulane, Oregon state or Gonzaga to get to 18.

That isn't the discussion. The discussion is "Does Gonzaga, as a non-football school and basketball brand" bring enough value to the Big 12 to gain entry to the conference.

Nobody is talking to SDSU, just like they weren't over the past two years. If there is any discussion about a California team in this situation, it will be about someone like St. Mary's to be paired as #2 team for Gonzaga.

St. Mary's plays in a gym that is similar sized (3,500) and less impressive than most large high schools. And they rarely sell it out (unless Gonzaga is in town) because they are a small school with a small fanbase.

The school is also rapidly shrinking.

St. Mary's fall enrollment by year (link)
4030 - 2015
3908 - 2016
3913 - 2017
3881 - 2018
3692 - 2019
3439 - 2020
3166 - 2021
2765 - 2022

Zero chance they are in the discussion.

It's impressive that Saint Mary's does so well, seemingly every year — despite that gym. Maybe the program's coaching staff uses the facility, in an inventive way, as a positive recruiting tool. An example (though on a much higher level) is Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium. Though not contemporary and seating only about 9,300, the arena has not hurt Duke. In fact, Duke uses Cameron to its advantage.

Sometimes, I think folks (not suggesting you) get too hung up on arenas that are unconventional, assuming such facilities are "inferior" to modern-day arenas.

We Vanderbilt fans are very happy with Memorial Gym, despite its various flaws and outdated elements.