(10-09-2023 10:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 10:18 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  This would be a huge mistake.

Gonzaga is the Boise St. of basketball. Soon their lightning in the bottle will go out and they will return to the obscurity from whence they came

I disagree.

Boise State never really went beyond being the best of the G5.

In contrast, Gonzaga is getting All-Americans, blue chippers, and huge NIL deals where they are legitimately competing with Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Kansas for top talent even despite having subpar conference competition. Boise State has never been in the vicinity of competing with the likes of Ohio State and Alabama for talent in football. I think a lot of people are underestimating what Gonzaga has been able to achieve here.

They’ve also been to two of the last six national championship games

(10-09-2023 10:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 10:18 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  This would be a huge mistake.

Gonzaga is the Boise St. of basketball. Soon their lightning in the bottle will go out and they will return to the obscurity from whence they came

I disagree.

Boise State never really went beyond being the best of the G5.

In contrast, Gonzaga is getting All-Americans, blue chippers, and huge NIL deals where they are legitimately competing with Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Kansas for top talent even despite having subpar conference competition. Boise State has never been in the vicinity of competing with the likes of Ohio State and Alabama for talent in football. I think a lot of people are underestimating what Gonzaga has been able to achieve here.

What Mark Few has been able to achieve.

Look at what has happened to DePaul since Ray Meyer retired in 1984 (although his son had a few good years riding on his coattails). Only 2 NCAAs since 1992 and only 1 NCAA win since 1989. And Gonzaga doesn't have DePaul's other advantages in location and size.

McMurphy:

Quote:Besides men’s basketball, Gonzaga also would join the Big 12 in baseball, women’s soccer, volleyball and men’s and women’s tennis, a source said.

So Gonzaga would be a Big XII member in 7 sports?

MBB
WBB
Baseball
Women's Soccer
Volleyball
Men's Tennis
Women's Tennis

(10-09-2023 10:39 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  McMurphy:

Quote:Besides men’s basketball, Gonzaga also would join the Big 12 in baseball, women’s soccer, volleyball and men’s and women’s tennis, a source said.

So Gonzaga would be a Big XII member in 7 sports?

MBB
WBB
Baseball
Women's Soccer
Volleyball
Men's Tennis
Women's Tennis

Gonzaga also sponsors men's and women's cross country, golf, rowing and track. They'd be a full member in 13-15 sports. The only exception is men's soccer and even then they'd have a few options for a new home.

If Gonzaga takes "Big East" level money, or $4M, combined with Big 12 distributions from the Tournament, they will be way ahead financially. FOX might well cover this (small money) as it dovetails into their NIT replacement, adding more depth to their basketball portfolio.

For the Zags it assures a relevant future beyond the Mark Few era (avoid the Boise State fade). For the Big 12 it adds another school that will make the tournament. This probably happens.

(10-09-2023 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 10:03 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 09:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Here are the Forbes values of the top 20 most valuable basketball programs:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/college-...h-carolina

9 of the top 20 are in the new Big Ten (including new member UCLA).

4 are in the ACC.

4 are in the new SEC (including new member Texas).

2 are in the new Big 12 (Kansas and Arizona).

1 is in the Big East.

Once again, don’t conflate on-the-court competitiveness with brand value. The depth of the financial advantage that the Big Ten has in basketball compared to other leagues is actually greater than it is in football. Half of its league is in the top 20 here.

Some surprising ranks here, no?
The Big Ten schools and Louisville's rank not it's inclusion.

Louisville’s arena is a massive money-maker. The Big Ten generally has really good across-the-board basketball attendance, too. There are schools like Purdue, Nebraska and Iowa that are probably just outside of this top 20 based on their historical attendance.

Ah, the Yummy Arena, forgot about that, makes more sense now. It just seemed like OSU and Minnesota ranks were high, but I will defer to you knowing better than I.

Gonzaga would join in all sports. NCAA rules require that for Basketball membership. I think that list is for team sports that are scheduled by the Big 12. Individual sports like track, swimming, cross country, golf, only show up at the conference meet, and since they do their own scheduling have no impact on the Big 12.

(10-09-2023 11:05 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga would join in all sports. NCAA rules require that for Basketball membership. I think that list is for team sports that are scheduled by the Big 12.

Where is this in the NCAA bylaws? Miami joined the Big East without all its sports playing within it.

(10-09-2023 11:08 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 11:05 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga would join in all sports. NCAA rules require that for Basketball membership. I think that list is for team sports that are scheduled by the Big 12.

Where is this in the NCAA bylaws? Miami joined the Big East without all its sports playing within it.

Apples and oranges. You can be a FB only member of a FBS conference. That option doesn't exist for basketball only. They'd have to join for all their sports which the Big 12 sponsors.


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(10-09-2023 10:31 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I’m just perplexed by people that don’t like this potential move (and I said as much several months ago). This realignment actually creating great new matchups (Gonzaga vs. Kansas/Arizona/Houston/etc.) instead of destroying them. It should make the Big 12 more money and the games get better. Is there a risk that Gonzaga will revert back whenever Mark Few leaves? Sure… but that can be said about any successful long-time coach. I’d rather bet on Gonzaga’s sustainability over 99% of the other names constantly thrown out there in realignment (whether for football or basketball).

Ironically, the only reason Gonzaga is special is because of their location. The WCC is the West Coast version of the Big East, but with much much lower performing programs. Had Gonzaga been playing a Big East schedule year in and year out, their season win total would be much lower. They benefit from being the only power program outside the Pac 12 on the West Coast. USF was a power program back in the day, Loyola Marymount as well. These schools are analogous to Big East schools, it’s just hoops interest isn’t as great in LA as it is in NYC.

People really need to stop ignoring the Mark Few factor. Jay Wright retired, how’s Villanova? Villanova actually won national championships. Plural.

(10-09-2023 11:21 AM)b2b Wrote:  Apples and oranges. You can be a FB only member of a FBS conference. That option doesn't exist for basketball only. They'd have to join for all their sports which the Big 12 sponsors.

To the point above, Miami did not play baseball in the Big East conference (even thought the conference sponsored baseball) to protect their at-large bid but played its other sports there.

(10-09-2023 11:27 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 11:21 AM)b2b Wrote:  Apples and oranges. You can be a FB only member of a FBS conference. That option doesn't exist for basketball only. They'd have to join for all their sports which the Big 12 sponsors.

To the point above, Miami did not play baseball in the Big East conference (even thought the conference sponsored baseball) to protect their at-large bid but played its other sports there.

Right, it essentially boils down to a conference not allowing a school to park its Olympic sports there while placing basketball in another conference. No conference wants to do that so they don’t agree to it.

The WCC isn’t going to say “sure, take away your conference revenue generating basketball program and we’ll keep the rest of your non-revenue programs warm and cozy.”

Football is a different animal. The A10 doesn’t care the least what schools do with their football programs.

(10-09-2023 11:21 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 11:08 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 11:05 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga would join in all sports. NCAA rules require that for Basketball membership. I think that list is for team sports that are scheduled by the Big 12.

Where is this in the NCAA bylaws? Miami joined the Big East without all its sports playing within it.

Apples and oranges. You can be a FB only member of a FBS conference. That option doesn't exist for basketball only. They'd have to join for all their sports which the Big 12 sponsors.


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No you don't. Conferences have to have a certain number of full members. Beyond that it doesn't matter.

Now nobody does it because it has never made any sense. It would not make any sense for any other conference to take all of Gonzaga's non-rev sports. But there is nothing theoretically stopping the Big 12 from taking only Gonzaga's basketball.

(10-09-2023 09:27 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 09:15 AM)thespywhozaggedme Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 09:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 08:58 AM)thespywhozaggedme Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 08:31 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  We'll see if a McMurphy/Thamel/Dellenger confirms. I'm not trusting of Seth Davis for realignment.

He’s not going to publish that article if it was just made up and his editors would not allow him to do that anyway. That’s a little too conspiratorial for my taste.

IWokeUpLikeThis did not suggest Seth Davis "just made up" the information. Instead, he perhaps wonders (and I do, too) if Davis either 1. got misinformation from what he felt was a legit source; or 2. was a bit sloppy in gathering his info.

How the heck did you get all of that from what he posted? That’s some hard-core extrapolation. Lol.

No, the only person who did hard-core extrapolation was you when you claimed I was making up a conspiracy theory that Seth Davis made everything up in the report. There wasn't a single thing in my post suggesting that.

Bill dazzle actually used common sense and recognized the far more likely reason I'd need confirmation from McMurphy/Dellenger/Thamel is because Seth Davis doesn't have a track record of reliability for realignment. He could have sources, but he hasn't demonstrated a track record of reliable sources -- and those are hard to come by in realignment.

Like bill dazzle said, there could be elements of truth in Seth's report (Yormark presented on Gonzaga) but there could also be misinformation from unreliable sources (Big XII is negotiating with Gonzaga). That's why I'd like confirmation from Dellenger/McMurphy/Thamel.

Looks like Davis was accurate in his reporting as B. McMurphy is now also reporting.

Thanks for the kind words, IWULT.

(10-09-2023 10:34 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 10:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 10:18 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  This would be a huge mistake.

Gonzaga is the Boise St. of basketball. Soon their lightning in the bottle will go out and they will return to the obscurity from whence they came

I disagree.

Boise State never really went beyond being the best of the G5.

In contrast, Gonzaga is getting All-Americans, blue chippers, and huge NIL deals where they are legitimately competing with Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Kansas for top talent even despite having subpar conference competition. Boise State has never been in the vicinity of competing with the likes of Ohio State and Alabama for talent in football. I think a lot of people are underestimating what Gonzaga has been able to achieve here.

They’ve also been to two of the last six national championship games

Please see Georgetown after John Thompson left.

I don’t know if ESPN would pay for it but maybe Fox would.

If the goal is to build a stonger basketball conference, then grab Gonzaga and UConn and pay less than $5 million for each. I think UConn would still take it if the full admission and full pay for the next cycle (2030) is guaranteed.

(10-09-2023 10:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-09-2023 10:18 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  This would be a huge mistake.

Gonzaga is the Boise St. of basketball. Soon their lightning in the bottle will go out and they will return to the obscurity from whence they came

I disagree.

Boise State never really went beyond being the best of the G5.

In contrast, Gonzaga is getting All-Americans, blue chippers, and huge NIL deals where they are legitimately competing with Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Kansas for top talent even despite having subpar conference competition. Boise State has never been in the vicinity of competing with the likes of Ohio State and Alabama for talent in football. I think a lot of people are underestimating what Gonzaga has been able to achieve here (particularly when this forum generally sees conference membership as determining the ceiling for sustained success, yet Gonzaga has blown through that ceiling).

Oklahoma begs to differ.

Dodd joining in

I think it'll be all-sports. I don't think BY and Zaga have the pull to get some waiver from the NCAA. More than likely, it will eventually morph into an all-Olympic sports deal, even if it just starts with a handful, for whatever reason they come up with.

(10-09-2023 11:55 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Please see Georgetown after John Thompson left.

10 NCAA bids, three Sweet 16, one Final Four. Still credible considering a decade of literally nothing since 2013.