(09-26-2023 10:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 08:06 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 07:27 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  To anyone outside the Republican party, this is the least surprising thing ever. To everyone in, it's gonna be real hard to spin this, I look forward to the attempts

It won't matter, you won't understand it either way. If you think there's something to this you're as moronic as the OP.

Exactly. This boils down to the preosecutor having a different opinion of value for specific assets than the Trump people placed on them. I would note that the lender apparently agreed with the Trump valuation at the time. I believe all the loans in question are either paid off or in good standing. Where else in the nation is a legal proceeding like this playing out? I would assume there are lender funded appraisals that reasonably support the property values. If not—-then the collateral never really mattered because it was essentially a signature loan

It has probably never ever happened.

(09-26-2023 10:32 PM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 10:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 08:06 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 07:27 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  To anyone outside the Republican party, this is the least surprising thing ever. To everyone in, it's gonna be real hard to spin this, I look forward to the attempts

It won't matter, you won't understand it either way. If you think there's something to this you're as moronic as the OP.

Exactly. This boils down to the preosecutor having a different opinion of value for specific assets than the Trump people placed on them. I would note that the lender apparently agreed with the Trump valuation at the time. I believe all the loans in question are either paid off or in good standing. Where else in the nation is a legal proceeding like this playing out? I would assume there are lender funded appraisals that reasonably support the property values. If not—-then the collateral never really mattered because it was essentially a signature loan

The judge agreed with the prosecutor because the value was bull****.

The lender clearly agreed with the value at the time of the loan. There should be a third party appraisal in the file—-and if there isn’t—-then the loan is basically a signature loan based more on credit worthiness than collateral value. My guess is this headed for an appeal where the case will completely fall apart.

(09-26-2023 11:32 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Am I the only one who wonders about the timing of this? Curious that it comes out the same day as news of Hunter receiving 260 from the Chinese with the beneficiary address that of his dear old daddy.

Loons: Nothing to see here! This is not the fraud you are looking for.

It's absolutely not a coincidence. Anyone with a functioning brain cell knows that.

It's also not a coincidence that the usual suspects are soiling themselves with glee because this time, THIS TIME, they've got him.

The judge based her idiotic findings on the tax assessed value. What an idiot. Hate has no limits. Borrowers don't determine value, lenders do.

(09-26-2023 08:26 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 08:18 PM)banker Wrote:  I would venture to guess I am one of a few, and perhaps the only, certified general appraiser on this board. I would also speculate that I am the only certified general appraiser that also spent 30 years financing multi-million dollar commercial real estate projects.

First, the simple part - An appraisal is an estimate of value, generally fair market value, and is an opinion based on the current market conditions and pertinent information available at the time of valuation.

The key words are estimate, opinion and market conditions at the effective date of valuation. I could order three appraisals on the exact same property and give each appraiser the exact same information. I will guarantee that I may get 3 similar conclusions or 3 very different conclusions, but I will definitely not get 3 of the same conclusion.

Next, and I’ve said it here before, no bank that lends any kind of money above small Savings and Loan/Credit Union levels, puts one bit of stock in what a customer tells you their real estate is worth. The cash flow tells you what the real estate is worth if you’re a banker. You won’t find a single banker who would get on a witness stand and say a customer defrauded a bank by overstating the value of real estate on a financial statement. To do so is an admission of failure to do your due diligence and they would get destroyed by a defense attorney. Customers aren’t appraisers, they generally give you one of three values for a piece of property - what they paid for it, the value of the last appraisal they had on it, or what they think it’s worth. The first doesn’t matter much (remember that value is based on current market conditions), the second may give an indication, but again is dated (could have lost/gained tenants, average remaining lease life, change in rates, etc), and the last is just an unqualified opinion.

Where you commit fraud on a financial statement is generally through omissions, off balance sheet debt, listing brokerage account values but not mentioning the assets are pledge as collateral, things like that.

This whole thing is crap. It’s like charging someone with theft when the “victim” gave the “criminal” the bike. No bank has alleged that Trump committed fraud against them.

Exactly. As I am a 20 year Residential Appraiser. EVERY borrower "Puffs" the value when they walk into the Originator's office

I think we all understand that as it's pretty straightforward. But trump isn't your run of the mill borrower. And specifically related to MAL, I believe the county appraisers value it like between 18 and 27 million in the last several years. But trump "puffed" the value to 1.5 BILLION. That's a snoop-dog level puff.

The guy stated his apartment was 200% larger than it was.
Why require loan docs & financial days if all of the information is presumed grossly inaccurate?

This case is the perfect illustration of what Donald Trump actually is… a complete fraud.

D's needed the soundbite. Expect more of this type of stuff the closer we get to 2014. They aren't expecting any of their adherents to know anything about appraisals, etc.

I’m not a Trump fan but this Fraud by a Judge who has most likely NEVER been in business a day of his like may not understand Economics 101. How can anyone be charged with Fraud when it’s appraised values? Surely banks have their own. I mean I’ve gotten business loans on multiple occasions and they never asked what I fought the value of my assets were. This sounds like a Kangaroo Court.

I need some better explanation. This sounds like a back door Political deal.

Did Trump bribe the Appraiser? Did Trump buy off the Bank Executives?

If there is more to this it will be tossed out on Appeal.

Where is Tanq to explain?

(09-27-2023 07:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  D's needed the soundbite. Expect more of this type of stuff the closer we get to 2014. They aren't expecting any of their adherents to know anything about appraisals, etc.

I'm afraid you'll find that we aren't getting closer to 2014.

(09-27-2023 07:20 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  The judge based her idiotic findings on the tax assessed value. What an idiot. Hate has no limits. Borrowers don't determine value, lenders do.

The judge is likely guilty of this same crime. Oh the irony.

(09-27-2023 07:20 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  The judge based her idiotic findings on the tax assessed value. What an idiot. Hate has no limits. Borrowers don't determine value, lenders do.

*His idiot.

(09-27-2023 07:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The guy stated his apartment was 200% larger than it was.
Why require loan docs & financial days if all of the information is presumed grossly inaccurate?

This case is the perfect illustration of what Donald Trump actually is… a complete fraud.

And it's so ridiculous that this conversation even needs to be had. It's not like anyone didn't know he was a fraud to begin with. It's the same reason the Democrats dismissed him as a serious candidate to win: there's no way the Republicans would vote for such an obvious conman, would they? 8 years later, and it turns out that yes, yes they would.

(09-27-2023 07:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The guy stated his apartment was 200% larger than it was.
Why require loan docs & financial days if all of the information is presumed grossly inaccurate?

This case is the perfect illustration of what Donald Trump actually is… a complete fraud.

Seriously sounds like your the dunce. Who cares what anyone says the size or worth of their property is?

I need to sell you because you take my word face value!

(09-27-2023 07:53 AM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 07:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  D's needed the soundbite. Expect more of this type of stuff the closer we get to 2014. They aren't expecting any of their adherents to know anything about appraisals, etc.

I'm afraid you'll find that we aren't getting closer to 2014.

Also, has Biden started WWII yet?

(09-27-2023 08:18 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 07:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The guy stated his apartment was 200% larger than it was.
Why require loan docs & financial days if all of the information is presumed grossly inaccurate?

This case is the perfect illustration of what Donald Trump actually is… a complete fraud.

Seriously sounds like your the dunce.

(09-27-2023 08:18 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 07:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The guy stated his apartment was 200% larger than it was.
Why require loan docs & financial days if all of the information is presumed grossly inaccurate?

This case is the perfect illustration of what Donald Trump actually is… a complete fraud.

And it's so ridiculous that this conversation even needs to be had. It's not like anyone didn't know he was a fraud to begin with. It's the same reason the Democrats dismissed him as a serious candidate to win: there's no way the Republicans would vote for such an obvious conman, would they? 8 years later, and it turns out that yes, yes they would.

While he very well may be a Fraud you are proving more and more to a Lemming of equal proportions. You don’t question this? You are OK with a Judge making a decision that unless there is some evidence of wrongdoing to make this judgement based on Trump said his property was worth and the lenders bought it?

Did Trump sell the Eiffel Tower to her as well?

Gross Ignorance in action unless there is more to this case.

(09-27-2023 08:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 08:18 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 07:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The guy stated his apartment was 200% larger than it was.
Why require loan docs & financial days if all of the information is presumed grossly inaccurate?

This case is the perfect illustration of what Donald Trump actually is… a complete fraud.

Seriously sounds like your the dunce.

Pray tell Tommy boy please elaborate on how the Lenders were frauded?

trump should not have listed the brooklyn bridge as an asset

(09-27-2023 08:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 07:53 AM)tennis2k4 Wrote:  

(09-27-2023 07:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  D's needed the soundbite. Expect more of this type of stuff the closer we get to 2014. They aren't expecting any of their adherents to know anything about appraisals, etc.

I'm afraid you'll find that we aren't getting closer to 2014.

Also, has Biden started WWII yet?

He can’t remember what he did last week!

SEE Afghanistan

(09-27-2023 08:28 AM)Unionman76 Wrote:  trump should not have listed the brooklyn bridge as an asset

Agreed, Fifth Avenue was the better choice.