Unpopular opinion here, but I'm with the unions on this one.

The Big 3 are probably going to make close to $50 billion in profits for 13,000 UAWs. You could double their pay for less than $1 billion of that $50 billion and you don't even really need to do that.

We need to go back to rebuilding an actual consumer class and not have so much of the massive production of our economy go to Chinese investors and BLM donations and establishment politician coffers and all the tax shelters that promote woke BS.

You have my vote.

I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

As all of us know, there is an important differentiation between private-sector and public-sector unions.

Private-sector unions have the (perhaps theoretical) limiting check on their behavior that if they push too hard they will tip over their own rice bowl. Public-sector unions have no such discipline, since it is only taxpayer rice bowls that are at risk.

I have an idea. How about keep the prices of cars the same or lower them, and/or get competitive financing for these cars, instead of the greedy unions come out and say, we want more money and keep everything the same going forward?

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Where's Blue Collar Joe to negotiate it...

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

I am no fan of unions either, but I can see their point - up to a point. This is just another PR stunt - Union goes big with a 43% raise and the Big 3 say - nah how about 10%.



Gas powered auto sales were through the roof post covid. Call it pent up demand or whatever. Auto makers made a bundle.

Auto makers are losing on the EVs - they are more expensive to make, too expensive for even the upper average buyer to buy, and they are losing the PR battle because the EV's are not predictable/reliable enough to truly take over.

BUT they are still being pushed to make more of them even as inventories are very high (and rising) as compared to gas cars.

Quote:I am no fan of unions either, but I can see their point - up to a point. This is just another PR stunt - Union goes big with a 43% raise and the Big 3 say - nah how about 10%.

Union already turned down a 22% increase

More cars built in the south.

Too bad, so sad fat, pastey, lazy yankee filth.

Get that big woman to help you

(09-20-2023 12:00 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

I am no fan of unions either, but I can see their point - up to a point. This is just another PR stunt - Union goes big with a 43% raise and the Big 3 say - nah how about 10%.



Gas powered auto sales were through the roof post covid. Call it pent up demand or whatever. Auto makers made a bundle.

Auto makers are losing on the EVs - they are more expensive to make, too expensive for even the upper average buyer to buy, and they are losing the PR battle because the EV's are not predictable/reliable enough to truly take over.

BUT they are still being pushed to make more of them even as inventories are very high (and rising) as compared to gas cars.

I can only imagine what the warranty reimbursement is for EVs. Gotta be through the roof.

(09-20-2023 11:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Yeah, agreed. But personally, I don't blame them for that.

Changes to pensions typically are for the financial benefit of the company and not the employee.

Now, a 32 hour work week and more pay? Nah. I'd tell them to take a hike.

For me, I'd be happy with traditional pension and a pre-ObamaCare healthcare package.


My daughter cost a total of $25 from the first co-pay through my wife's delivery.

Post ObamaCare and post Cadillac Plan, a coworker's out-of-pocket for twins was near $6,000.


NOTE: I don't remember if he said $4,600 or $5,600... so let's split is and say $5,000.

Regardless... pre-ObamaCare at $25 and post-ObamaCare at $5,000 is ridiculous.

(09-20-2023 12:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  More cars built in the south.

Too bad, so sad fat, pastey, lazy yankee filth.

Get that big woman to help you

That dress looks like it is smothering the kool aid man.

(09-20-2023 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Yeah, agreed. But personally, I don't blame them for that.

Changes to pensions typically are for the financial benefit of the company and not the employee.

Now, a 32 hour work week and more pay? Nah. I'd tell them to take a hike.

For me, I'd be happy with traditional pension and a pre-ObamaCare healthcare package.


My daughter cost a total of $25 from the first co-pay through my wife's delivery.

Post ObamaCare and post Cadillac Plan, a coworker's out-of-pocket for twins was near $6,000.


NOTE: I don't remember if he said $4,600 or $5,600... so let's split is and say $5,000.

Regardless... pre-ObamaCare at $25 and post-ObamaCare at $5,000 is ridiculous.

I believe the autoworkers are hourly and not salary, so if they want that 32 hour week, go for it.

(09-20-2023 12:48 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Yeah, agreed. But personally, I don't blame them for that.

Changes to pensions typically are for the financial benefit of the company and not the employee.

Now, a 32 hour work week and more pay? Nah. I'd tell them to take a hike.

For me, I'd be happy with traditional pension and a pre-ObamaCare healthcare package.


My daughter cost a total of $25 from the first co-pay through my wife's delivery.

Post ObamaCare and post Cadillac Plan, a coworker's out-of-pocket for twins was near $6,000.


NOTE: I don't remember if he said $4,600 or $5,600... so let's split is and say $5,000.

Regardless... pre-ObamaCare at $25 and post-ObamaCare at $5,000 is ridiculous.

I believe the autoworkers are hourly and not salary, so if they want that 32 hour week, go for it.

I think you're right about that. But working 4 days instead of 5. That's just soy boy right there.

(09-20-2023 11:12 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Unpopular opinion here, but I'm with the unions on this one.

The Big 3 are probably going to make close to $50 billion in profits for 13,000 UAWs. You could double their pay for less than $1 billion of that $50 billion and you don't even really need to do that.

We need to go back to rebuilding an actual consumer class and not have so much of the massive production of our economy go to Chinese investors and BLM donations and establishment politician coffers and all the tax shelters that promote woke BS.

Im not. They rejected a 21% increase. Was your last raise 21%? Even at a 21% raise, its already going to cause the affordability of new autos for American middle class consumers to get even worse. I have no idea how much more it will take to make the union happy---but apparently it must be substantially more than 21%.

The real problem for the middle class is the auto makers are producing only their high profit models loaded up with expensive options. Furthermore, they have all but stopped making economy cars for the masses and are limiting production in order to artificially keep new car prices high. Paying the union workers more wont help John Q Public with car affordability---and in the long run---Im not so sure it will even help the union workers to the degree it makes US built cars even less affordable. What will help the American middle class is for just one car maker to decide they want to capture that abandoned middle-to-lower class consumer market place by providing reliable and serviceable vehicles that slot into the now non-existent sub $20K new car market. Basically---someone needs to come up with a reliable functional modern day Model-T for the masses----and build a crap load of them. One automaker does that----and the whole "low inventory---high margin" economic strategy auto makers are currently using to keep prices high will unwind.

(09-20-2023 12:37 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  More cars built in the south.

Too bad, so sad fat, pastey, lazy yankee filth.

Get that big woman to help you

That dress looks like it is smothering the kool aid man.

Dammit I can't unsee that now :(

(09-20-2023 01:08 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:48 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Yeah, agreed. But personally, I don't blame them for that.

Changes to pensions typically are for the financial benefit of the company and not the employee.

Now, a 32 hour work week and more pay? Nah. I'd tell them to take a hike.

For me, I'd be happy with traditional pension and a pre-ObamaCare healthcare package.


My daughter cost a total of $25 from the first co-pay through my wife's delivery.

Post ObamaCare and post Cadillac Plan, a coworker's out-of-pocket for twins was near $6,000.


NOTE: I don't remember if he said $4,600 or $5,600... so let's split is and say $5,000.

Regardless... pre-ObamaCare at $25 and post-ObamaCare at $5,000 is ridiculous.

I believe the autoworkers are hourly and not salary, so if they want that 32 hour week, go for it.

I think you're right about that. But working 4 days instead of 5. That's just soy boy right there.

damn man, I only work 4

(09-20-2023 01:08 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:48 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but I'm also with the workers on this one.

I think their demands are too much, but start high so you have some negotiation room.

The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Yeah, agreed. But personally, I don't blame them for that.

Changes to pensions typically are for the financial benefit of the company and not the employee.

Now, a 32 hour work week and more pay? Nah. I'd tell them to take a hike.

For me, I'd be happy with traditional pension and a pre-ObamaCare healthcare package.


My daughter cost a total of $25 from the first co-pay through my wife's delivery.

Post ObamaCare and post Cadillac Plan, a coworker's out-of-pocket for twins was near $6,000.


NOTE: I don't remember if he said $4,600 or $5,600... so let's split is and say $5,000.

Regardless... pre-ObamaCare at $25 and post-ObamaCare at $5,000 is ridiculous.

I believe the autoworkers are hourly and not salary, so if they want that 32 hour week, go for it.

I think you're right about that. But working 4 days instead of 5. That's just soy boy right there.

Lets look at this another way....

a ton of non-manufacturing jobs get paid for 40 and actually work way less than 32 hours. How else do you explain people posting on twitter, facebook, sports boards, and even this board for a large portion of their workday? Out of those I bet a large % hardly post after 5pm or on weekends....post total drops by 50 to 75%.

(09-20-2023 02:44 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 01:08 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:48 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 11:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  The pensions coming back is probably a non starter.

Yeah, agreed. But personally, I don't blame them for that.

Changes to pensions typically are for the financial benefit of the company and not the employee.

Now, a 32 hour work week and more pay? Nah. I'd tell them to take a hike.

For me, I'd be happy with traditional pension and a pre-ObamaCare healthcare package.


My daughter cost a total of $25 from the first co-pay through my wife's delivery.

Post ObamaCare and post Cadillac Plan, a coworker's out-of-pocket for twins was near $6,000.


NOTE: I don't remember if he said $4,600 or $5,600... so let's split is and say $5,000.

Regardless... pre-ObamaCare at $25 and post-ObamaCare at $5,000 is ridiculous.

I believe the autoworkers are hourly and not salary, so if they want that 32 hour week, go for it.

I think you're right about that. But working 4 days instead of 5. That's just soy boy right there.

Lets look at this another way....

a ton of non-manufacturing jobs get paid for 40 and actually work way less than 32 hours. How else do you explain people posting on twitter, facebook, sports boards, and even this board for a large portion of their workday? Out of those I bet a large % hardly post after 5pm or on weekends....post total drops by 50 to 75%.

Yup you can look to our resident pole grinder TJP to prove the point. He is fired up and rolling along from 7AM until about 4PM on the weekdays..... Basically nothing on the weekends or after work hours.