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The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
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ballantyneapp Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 12:36 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:58 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:28 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:23 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  03-lmfao

What was the excuse last year???

a true unc fan would choke on their zinfandel and gruyere before giving a compliment to App State football.

Sure, it's fun to lean into the stereotype, but there are more blue-collar Carolina fans than App State fans in total.

and they would choke on their 2 buck Chuck and Velveeta before giving App State football a compliment!

Idk, I suppose recently you all have taken an ECU like place in our hearts. I don’t ever remember playing App State. I remember Wake vs App State being a yearly (?) event.

I looked it up, this was only the fourth all-time meeting. Besides the 1940 slugfest, they’ve all been within the last five seasons. I guess I just don’t have the animosity, but I totally get where Mack is coming from. App State is a proud football program that will be competitive no matter what, and Carolina is suppose to win.

obviously we are not historical rivals. We are simply peer programs (as evidenced by our 3 games) that engage in enjoyable and competitive contests that have a lot of regional interest. You know, like college football.

The ostensible superiority of UNC FOOTBALL fans is where the jokes come in.
09-11-2023 01:27 PM
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Porcine Offline
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Post: #42
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
Little brother punched Lord Mack in the mouth and now he's crying to Daddy to impose sanctions to crush the rebellion.
09-11-2023 01:39 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #43
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
Lauren Brownlow, who made the tweet in my OP, has a conversation about this whole topic with Joe Ovies, co-host of a local ESPN Radio show in the Raleigh area.



09-11-2023 01:46 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #44
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 12:56 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Somewhat related question:

What does it take for App to get to the point where, like Boise State, UCF, Cincinnati, and Houston (before they moved up), they can get neutral site type games with P5 and where a loss to them is considered understandable and not the end of the world.

I clearly remember UGA losing to Boise State around 2010 or so, and they went on to win the SEC East. Another year, Va. Tech lost to Boise and went on to win the ACC. Houston got H&H's with Oklahoma and other schools, plus neutral site games with P5's. Cincinnati had H&H's with many P5's during their AAC tenure.

Basically, how does App State become an attractive opponent because they'd be a quality win/respectable loss rather than "all downside/no upside" in the eyes of athletic directors, the way Boise State still does today.

I think the common denominator of all of those G5 teams mentioned is that they were able to get to CFP or former BCS bowls and have success with them.

Houston, UCF and Cincinnati also provided access to 3 key recruiting areas as a selling point. Boise State was more about national branding.

IMHO, App State needs to be a mix of Boise State and those urban schools: it’s a better recruiting territory compared to Boise State at least when looking at the state overall, but they also need more national recognition compared to the urban schools because they’re not offering a recruiting-rich trip to Texas, Florida or Ohio in the process.

Granted, the bar is just going to get harder because I think the P4 (and especially the P2) will be less likely to go on the road to G5 opponents than ever going forward.
09-11-2023 01:54 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #45
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
As a long-time fan of both Memphis (member of a "group" league) and North Carolina (member of a "power" league), I have mixed emotions about this topic. Will weigh in tonight.

But I'll note this now: App State offers an outstanding football program. Doesn't matter who the coach is, as the players are always damn good and the fan base is passionate — every single season it seems. Full props to that program and to the classy App fans on this board (particularly MinRaleigh).
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 02:01 PM by bill dazzle.)
09-11-2023 02:00 PM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 09:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I know we have a lot of G5 fans on the forum and they hate hearing it, but if you’re in a power conference position… yes, you absolutely want those non-power games to be completely boring. There are enough existing games that are going to provide plenty of excitement and losses in the conference that no one wants anything other than a total blowout to be happy. I mean, I cheer for a pretty bad Illinois football program and no one in the fan base thought 2 weeks ago, “Wow! That was an exciting game against Toledo because it was such a nail-biter! Love that college football is back!” Instead, the fact that it was too nerve-wracking of a game (very different than “exciting”) was totally deflating where we were questioning whether we’d win any Big Ten games this year besides maybe Northwestern. We absolutely, positively want those games to be 100% boring blowouts because we have Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, et. al coming up on the schedule where the risk of boredom comes from *us* being blown out.

It's the smart thing to do from a gamesmanship perspective, not that I agree with it.

P5 doesn't want to play good G5 teams.
G5 doesn't want to play good FCS teams.
FCS teams don't want to play good D2 teams.

Lose Lose situation. For example, Montana may very well lose to D2 Ferris State this weekend. They will be better than probably half of the FCS but Montana will get zero credit for winning every ranked program is expected to win a D2 game no matter who it is.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 02:20 PM by nodak651.)
09-11-2023 02:18 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #47
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 12:36 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:58 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:28 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:23 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  03-lmfao

What was the excuse last year???

a true unc fan would choke on their zinfandel and gruyere before giving a compliment to App State football.

Sure, it's fun to lean into the stereotype, but there are more blue-collar Carolina fans than App State fans in total.

and they would choke on their 2 buck Chuck and Velveeta before giving App State football a compliment!

Idk, I suppose recently you all have taken an ECU like place in our hearts. I don’t ever remember playing App State. I remember Wake vs App State being a yearly (?) event.

I looked it up, this was only the fourth all-time meeting. Besides the 1940 slugfest, they’ve all been within the last five seasons. I guess I just don’t have the animosity, but I totally get where Mack is coming from. App State is a proud football program that will be competitive no matter what, and Carolina is suppose to win.

Why are they supposed to win?

UNC football isn't on some pedestal of college football great programs. They are pre-season ranked every year and never amount to a conference championship. In fact, I believe in Mack's best year he still fell behind an actual blueblood in Florida State. Mack may think he's too good to play App State in football (because of his TEXAS days), but UNC surely isnt.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 02:58 PM by HP-TBDPITL.)
09-11-2023 02:56 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #48
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
My solution probably angers both the P crowd and the G crowd:

Shrink FBS down to about 100 teams and eliminate the 1 FCS opponent counts toward bowl eligibility rule. Force teams to schedule opponents who have similar resources.

The schools and networks have this more home games = more revenue = better for all involved attitude when quite frankly 2/3rds of OOC games nowadays are a foregone conclusion before they even start and are barely watchable. I have zero interest in watching mediocre competition get slaughtered by big time opponents. It’s unsporting.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 03:02 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
09-11-2023 03:02 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #49
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 02:56 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 12:36 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:58 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:28 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  a true unc fan would choke on their zinfandel and gruyere before giving a compliment to App State football.

Sure, it's fun to lean into the stereotype, but there are more blue-collar Carolina fans than App State fans in total.

and they would choke on their 2 buck Chuck and Velveeta before giving App State football a compliment!

Idk, I suppose recently you all have taken an ECU like place in our hearts. I don’t ever remember playing App State. I remember Wake vs App State being a yearly (?) event.

I looked it up, this was only the fourth all-time meeting. Besides the 1940 slugfest, they’ve all been within the last five seasons. I guess I just don’t have the animosity, but I totally get where Mack is coming from. App State is a proud football program that will be competitive no matter what, and Carolina is suppose to win.

Why are they supposed to win?

UNC football isn't on some pedestal of college football great programs. They are pre-season ranked every year and never amount to a conference championship. In fact, I believe in Mack's best year he still fell behind an actual blueblood in Florida State. Mack may think he's too good to play App State in football (because of his TEXAS days), but UNC surely isnt.

Carolina was supposed to win because they are ranked and favored in the desert.
09-11-2023 03:10 PM
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JUSTGOPLAY Offline
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Post: #50
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 11:49 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:23 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  It was a great game, no doubt.

Carolina came out flat—likely in part due to the NCAA's ruling last week. Regardless, the kicker should never have missed the game winner in regulation. You can't rely on a mediocre kicker if you want to win anything.

:lmfao:

What was the excuse last year???

:lmfao:

Kicker is a Cincinnati transfer!

What were you thinking, Mack!

He was good for us, so...

I'll take the kid Satterfield brought in over that guy. He is money!
09-11-2023 03:13 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #51
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 03:10 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 02:56 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 12:36 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:58 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  Sure, it's fun to lean into the stereotype, but there are more blue-collar Carolina fans than App State fans in total.

and they would choke on their 2 buck Chuck and Velveeta before giving App State football a compliment!

Idk, I suppose recently you all have taken an ECU like place in our hearts. I don’t ever remember playing App State. I remember Wake vs App State being a yearly (?) event.

I looked it up, this was only the fourth all-time meeting. Besides the 1940 slugfest, they’ve all been within the last five seasons. I guess I just don’t have the animosity, but I totally get where Mack is coming from. App State is a proud football program that will be competitive no matter what, and Carolina is suppose to win.

Why are they supposed to win?

UNC football isn't on some pedestal of college football great programs. They are pre-season ranked every year and never amount to a conference championship. In fact, I believe in Mack's best year he still fell behind an actual blueblood in Florida State. Mack may think he's too good to play App State in football (because of his TEXAS days), but UNC surely isnt.

Carolina was supposed to win because they are ranked and favored in the desert.

But they are ranked this time EVERY year. None of that matters when they take the field. Mack is 30-22 right now in this stint...there is nothing Top 25 about that. Fedora was 45-43 before him. Straight avg. In fact, if you go back to when Mack Brown left for Texas, UNC football has a losing record. They are 138-157.

No wonder they struggle when playing App State.
09-11-2023 03:39 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #52
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 02:18 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 09:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I know we have a lot of G5 fans on the forum and they hate hearing it, but if you’re in a power conference position… yes, you absolutely want those non-power games to be completely boring. There are enough existing games that are going to provide plenty of excitement and losses in the conference that no one wants anything other than a total blowout to be happy. I mean, I cheer for a pretty bad Illinois football program and no one in the fan base thought 2 weeks ago, “Wow! That was an exciting game against Toledo because it was such a nail-biter! Love that college football is back!” Instead, the fact that it was too nerve-wracking of a game (very different than “exciting”) was totally deflating where we were questioning whether we’d win any Big Ten games this year besides maybe Northwestern. We absolutely, positively want those games to be 100% boring blowouts because we have Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, et. al coming up on the schedule where the risk of boredom comes from *us* being blown out.

It's the smart thing to do from a gamesmanship perspective, not that I agree with it.

P5 doesn't want to play good G5 teams.
G5 doesn't want to play good FCS teams.
FCS teams don't want to play good D2 teams.

Lose Lose situation. For example, Montana may very well lose to D2 Ferris State this weekend. They will be better than probably half of the FCS but Montana will get zero credit for winning every ranked program is expected to win a D2 game no matter who it is.

This is how it should be viewed when talking about this. It's not just about the p5s. It's a "lose-lose" for any team when it comes to playing schools a tier below them that can actually compete.
09-11-2023 03:59 PM
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rtist Offline
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Post: #53
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
When I saw the OP topic, I thought a great game was something like this:


09-11-2023 04:06 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #54
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
UNC doesn't want to play App anymore.

Let's, then, take a look at how they typically schedule to get an idea of the kind of school they would want to schedule instead. I got the information based off fbschedules.com.

Here's what UNC's non-conference schedule looks like over a 15 year period (2012-2019 and 2021-2027, with 2027 being the last year they have a full four team non conference schedule in place and with 2020 not included because it was the Covid year with all ACC games).

The time period will have included 60 non-conference games. Four per year. This was the breakdown:

FCS Home Games: 16; 26.67% of NC. (Only one year was there no FCS game played, and two years UNC played two FCS teams.)
Power 5 Home Games: 9; 15% of the non-conference schedule
P5 Road Games: 11; 18.33% of the NC schedule
P5 Neutral Site Games: 4; 6.67% of NC
G5 Home Games: 13; 21.67% of NC
G5 Road Games: 7; 11.67% of NC

Let's look, then, for the patterns. I'm going to allow myself to do a little rounding.

First, one of UNC's four non-conference games is FCS at home almost all of the time. Like it or not, this is absolutely the norm throughout the vast majority of FBS.

Second, again, doing some rounding, about two thirds of the time, UNC plays a P5 at home. Two thirds of the time, UNC plays a P5 team on the road. Notre Dame has helped a lot with these two categories.

Third, an average of about once every four years, UNC plays a neutral site game against a P5.

Fourth, UNC plays a home game against a G5 almost every year (13 times in 15 years) and a road G5 game about every other year (7 times in 15 years).

A typical UNC schedule, I conclude, looks most often something like this:

- One FCS home game about every year
- One G5 home game nearly every year
- One G5 road game every other year
- A P5 home game twice in three years
- A P5 road game twice in three years
- A P5 neutral site game once every four years

That works out to about two G5 home games for every one G5 road game. That is the pattern. 2-for-1. Against G5 teams.

The question is, "Which G5 teams should UNC schedule, since they clearly schedule them quite regularly?" UConn? UMass? MAC teams?

It's clear that if they're saying, "No more App State," it's not because they're above playing G5 teams, home or on the road. It's because they would rather play G5 teams with an established history of losing.

Here's the list of G5 teams that made up the 20 games in 15 years:

ECU (4)
App (3)
Charlotte (2)
UConn (2)
Ga. State (2)
ODU (2)
JMU (1)
UCF (1) (AAC at the time)
San Diego State (1)
MTSU (1)
Idaho (1) (WAC at the time)

Which schools make the most sense for UNC to play? Which will get the most people to literally attend the games?
09-11-2023 04:18 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #55
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 03:39 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 03:10 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 02:56 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 12:36 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:58 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  and they would choke on their 2 buck Chuck and Velveeta before giving App State football a compliment!

Idk, I suppose recently you all have taken an ECU like place in our hearts. I don’t ever remember playing App State. I remember Wake vs App State being a yearly (?) event.

I looked it up, this was only the fourth all-time meeting. Besides the 1940 slugfest, they’ve all been within the last five seasons. I guess I just don’t have the animosity, but I totally get where Mack is coming from. App State is a proud football program that will be competitive no matter what, and Carolina is suppose to win.

Why are they supposed to win?

UNC football isn't on some pedestal of college football great programs. They are pre-season ranked every year and never amount to a conference championship. In fact, I believe in Mack's best year he still fell behind an actual blueblood in Florida State. Mack may think he's too good to play App State in football (because of his TEXAS days), but UNC surely isnt.

Carolina was supposed to win because they are ranked and favored in the desert.

But they are ranked this time EVERY year. None of that matters when they take the field. Mack is 30-22 right now in this stint...there is nothing Top 25 about that. Fedora was 45-43 before him. Straight avg. In fact, if you go back to when Mack Brown left for Texas, UNC football has a losing record. They are 138-157.

No wonder they struggle when playing App State.

So you’re saying Carolina doesn’t deserve to be ranked this year because of what happened during the 2000’s? Does that mean Hakeem Nicks is still eligible?!?!
09-11-2023 06:02 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #56
RE: The Last Thing We Would Want is Great Games
(09-11-2023 06:02 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 03:39 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 03:10 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 02:56 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 12:36 PM)esayem Wrote:  Idk, I suppose recently you all have taken an ECU like place in our hearts. I don’t ever remember playing App State. I remember Wake vs App State being a yearly (?) event.

I looked it up, this was only the fourth all-time meeting. Besides the 1940 slugfest, they’ve all been within the last five seasons. I guess I just don’t have the animosity, but I totally get where Mack is coming from. App State is a proud football program that will be competitive no matter what, and Carolina is suppose to win.

Why are they supposed to win?

UNC football isn't on some pedestal of college football great programs. They are pre-season ranked every year and never amount to a conference championship. In fact, I believe in Mack's best year he still fell behind an actual blueblood in Florida State. Mack may think he's too good to play App State in football (because of his TEXAS days), but UNC surely isnt.

Carolina was supposed to win because they are ranked and favored in the desert.

But they are ranked this time EVERY year. None of that matters when they take the field. Mack is 30-22 right now in this stint...there is nothing Top 25 about that. Fedora was 45-43 before him. Straight avg. In fact, if you go back to when Mack Brown left for Texas, UNC football has a losing record. They are 138-157.

No wonder they struggle when playing App State.

So you’re saying Carolina doesn’t deserve to be ranked this year because of what happened during the 2000’s? Does that mean Hakeem Nicks is still eligible?!?!

I'm saying that UNC is not as good as they think they are or what pollsters think they are...EVERY year. As the losses come, they fall because they actually are playing games. When they aren't playing games they are "great on paper".
09-11-2023 07:10 PM
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